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  • Today marks the 24th anniversary of 9/11. I pray that this nation does not forget the loss of lives from this horrible event. Yesterday conservative commentator Charlie Kirk was murdered, and I worry about what is to come. Please love one another and your family in these trying times - Spark

Airplane Legal?

Esav Benyamin,

As of the moment, you ARE allowed to bring your diabetic medicine/equipment, including syringes. After they have been inspected by airport security (and I believe tagged).

Also, regarding locked baggage, I've flown over seas twice (from Canada) in the last two years. I have locked my luggage on both accounts, without incident. None of my travel companions on either of these trips has experienced their bags being opened. But again, this is Canada.

I believe you are also allowed to have your checked-baggage inspected, tagged, and then locked if this is a concern (not sure if they've done away with this practice yet).

On the other hand I have read that securing your bags with a unique ziptie (say a coloured type that is not common) helps prevent the baggage thieves from pilfering, when you not allowed to lock your bags (or fear they will be busted open).


Regards,

Shaun.
 
Knives are not dangerous to allow on planes?
How about box cutters? Think they are dangerous to the safety of others while flying? History proves they are dangerous, how can one then say they think knives should be allowed on planes.

I think people get confused about "their" intentions [ which are not known to TSA or the airlines ], and some criminals intent [ which are not known to TSA or the airlines ].

We know who we are, the airlines do not. If they allow Brownie on the plane with a Military, Chinook, spydercard, MT LCC, etc, they then will need to allow EVERYONE to carry a knife on board for flights or be subject to discrimination allegations and lawsuits.

All for one or one for all. Can't have it any other way in todays litigious society. So, I know I'm not a BG and want to carry my knives on a flight. The middleeastern decendant in the aisle across from me gets to then carry one as well. I have no problem with people from that end of the world until they give me reason to, but I can tell you I WILL be profiling knowing they have been given the opportunity to carry weapons on the plane like myself.

I'd rather not see that to be honwest. So I surrender my rights as others do in the chance it REDUCES the risk of an edged weapon making on board by a whack job who intends to take it to the ground before the actual scheduled landing.

As to be disarmed/unarmed while flying? If you feel unarmed because you do not have a gun or knife on you, you need more training. Weapons are to be found all around us if we know what to look for.

I may be DISARMERD of conventional weapons, but I assure all of you I am not "unarmed" if I fly [ which I will not do ].

Brownie
 
That's just silly.

Of course box cutters are dangerous in the hands of criminals and/or terrorists. And I don't know what to say if you honestly beleive that banning ANYTHING keeps criminals from having/doing that particular thing. Weren't you a cop?

Case in point: VampyreWolf ACCIDENTALLY brought a knife on a plane, don't you think that there are probably still MANY, MANY people bringing weapons on planes deliberately?

I am bright enough to operate under the assumption that Criminals/Terrorists can and will do things that are illegal or banned. Therefore, it is only logical to assume that Terrorists WILL get aboard planes, and WILL have various weapons with them when they do. I'd rather know that there may be a terrorist on board (I know that anyway) and that he may have a knife (I know that anyway, too) AND know that I, too, have a knife. I'd feel even better knowing that EVERYONE had a weapon because I feel very confident in the fact that even if there WERE a Terrorist on board there would still be the other 99% of the Passengers who were NOT Terrorists!!! Those are pretty good odds! Terrorists don't seem too afraid to die, but they are afraid of not accomplishing their 'mission'. If they figured that they would get killed immediately if they tried to hijack a plane, they wouldn't bother. (of course they'd just find other horrible things to do to people, but that's another issue altogether)

Of course I do not consider myself 'defensless' unless I have a knife, but that's not the issue. Are you carrying a knife right now? Does that mean that without it you're a defensless weakling? No, of course not. Knives and various weapons give us an advantage, that's all. I'd rather have it than not.

-John
 
Allowing you to have the knife allows them the right to bring them on the plane as well.

Of course you won't catch everything at the gates, but the harder it is for them to get it past the gate checkpoints the less apt we are to have to deal with them on a flight to begon with.

And if it SEEMS difficult and easy to get caught, they are less apt to attempt it. No security, it's open season. They would not want to be caught attempting to board right now with a knife. Too easy to get snagged and not complete their mission statement.

We are slowing the possibles down by searching and wanding them. They used the system of allowing knives on the planes during 9-11 to great effect. Do we leave that door open for them after they have proven they will step through it if it is not locked down? I don't think so.

If there is one on a flight I'm on, he'll liekly only have what I have on me, no more or less. I say liekly because there are no absolutes.

Don't forget that it isn't just terrorists we are concerend with. The airlines deal with unruly passengers who are not terrorists, have no intention of harming others but still creat havoc for the crews and are potentially a threatr to themeselves and cetainly other passengers.

My wife flew as an attendant for a major airline for 22 years. I know the stories first hand. Drunks, weirdos flying all over the world [ she flew international flights the first 16 yeears ], cultural differences in hygeine, courtesy, mentally disturbed, she saw it all and then some. Ya, lets let the weirdos who fly and the drunks coming back from Marguarita-ville have weapons on planes. Hell lets let everyone carry a gun [ until some drunk on a flight gets nasty cause he was shut off by the attendant ]and wait for an incident.

Murphy rules around us. It isn't a matter of if but when if we allow that to scenario. The idea that all passengers carrying guns or knives or both as well as other weapons will keep us safer in the air?
Come on people, any loony on a flight with a gun whose drunk? What ya gonna do, confront him and possibly escalate the situation to a shoot out betwen him and you as well as probably others at the same time?

Safer with everyone carrying? The security needs to be tightened more, lest the baddies, the insane, the terrorists, the drunks [ who all fly along side us whether we know it or not ]are given even more opportunity to be a threat to everyone on board.

No thanks, I'll hope they caught everything at the gates and deal with anything missed that becomes a threat to me at that time in the air. As I said, I'll not be unarmed on the plane myself though the items I'll use won't be on a restricted list.

Brownie
 
Originally posted by Boink
Talk about nail clippers and files make me think: why don't folks do all there personal grooming before they leave home for the airport?

Agreed. That said, I'm terribly prone to hangnails all the freaking time. They can become infected if not attended to promptly.
 
Originally posted by Boink
Talk about nail clippers and files make me think: why don't folks do all there personal grooming before they leave home for the airport?
I quit biting my nails about 15 years ago and became obsessed with cleaning and trimming them. Foe several years, I carried a nail clipper everywhere. Even today I have clippers in my desk and my vehicles so thatI am never without them. When I flew right after 9/11, I spent way too much time thinking about the clippers. Of course, my sister forgot to bring her clippers so she bought a whole kit at a hotel and threw it in her carryon. She never got stopped.
 
Originally posted by Frank
I quit biting my nails about 15 years ago and became obsessed with cleaning and trimming them.

My whole thing with nail clippers involves personal hygiene. Not self defense or anything like that. Just personal upkeep.

Being a programmer, I have to look at my hands and nails every day. Yes, I look at my hands as I type. Bad habit, I know, but at least I don't bite or chew my fingernails. Grin.

If I have to buy a Dremel to file away the point on my nail file, so be it.
 
I didn't expect such a passionate response from such a simple question.
Brownie, you seem to have a problem with the fact that there can be essential needs while traveling on an airplane that a knife can deal with. I am simply looking for alternatives; not ways to bypass or defeat existing rules.
Your question about why I would want or need to open a blister pack on an airplane is not only absurd and irrelivant, but I find it extremely annoying. Having to justify everything we do to some government or private agency leads to the gradual sacrifice of personal freedoms. I understand and agree that airport security is necessary and rules must be adhered to. BUT, I would draw the line at having to explain why I need to open a blister pack that might contain aspirin, candy, or any of hundreds of other items commonly supplied in such wrappings.
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
My question is why you be needing to open blister packs while a passenger on a flight.

Brownie

My problem would be that many medications now come in blister-type packages to protect them from moisture. Having Chronic Daily Headache syndrome, I take several kinds of meds every day, and lots of those come in, you guessed it, blister packs.
 
brownie0486 wrote:
Knives are not dangerous to allow on planes? How about box cutters? Think they are dangerous to the safety of others while flying? History proves they are dangerous, how can one then say they think knives should be allowed on planes.

Your missing a very important point. The reason box cutters were effective is because Americans have been brainwashed (for lack of a better term) to not defend themselves. This especially applies to air travel, where people are instructed to remain calm, let the hijackers do/have what they want and when the plain lands all will be taken care of by the authorities. It was this mentality that allowed box cutters to be effective.
 
Case in point: VampyreWolf ACCIDENTALLY brought a knife on a plane, don't you think that there are probably still MANY, MANY people bringing weapons on planes deliberately?

There was a widely published test done about a year ago in which screeners failed to find simulated weapons hidden in bags something like 25% of the time. People howled about how terrible airport security was. But, here's the question: is the glass 1/4 empty, or 3/4 full? If you're a criminal, a 25% chance of success is not good odds.

When it comes to finding weapons, airport security is not perfect; it never will be perfect. Fortunately, it doesn't have to be perfect to be effective.



I believe you are also allowed to have your checked-baggage inspected, tagged, and then locked if this is a concern

For domestic US flights, you certainly can. I suggest calling the ticket desk at the airport you'll be departing from and asking what arrangements this requires ahead of time. The procedures are different from airPORT to airPORT (notice airPORT, not airLINE. The procedures depend on the airport you'll be departing from because the physical arrangements depend on exactly how each airport is physically implimenting the new baggage screening requirements.) This is why you should call the ticket desk at the airport you'll be departing from, not the airline's national 800 number. You want to chat with someone who knows the arrangements at that specific airport.




I'm diabetic. On a long airplane ride, I can't test my blood glucose level or even tell how low I may be getting just sitting there.

I have a good friend who is insulin-dependent diabetic and also travels by air frequently for business. Just carry your doctor's prescription with you and you can (and should) carry your insulin and your syringes and other equipment and supplies with you. Never check that stuff. If the airline looses your bag, you could be in big trouble. Furthermore, bags aren't always protected from heat and cold that can damage insulin and testing supplies.
 
Supporting this kind of "security" is supporting circular logic. "Hey, I'll just take another pill and forget that life sucks!" It supports irrational fear of a knife. It really is a strange thing..."crazy" you might say...

I have a good friend that handles my knives like a lizard or an antique MontBlanc...from his fingertips, and VERY carefully, and afraid of this "weapon"... and I'm talking about a sm.sebenza!

I thought it was strange until I saw...

Him use a paring knife! I mean.. he peeled and sliced apples like a skilled wood carver... like his fingers were made of kevlar... fearless!

Thanks to TV, we all have very graphic images tucked inside... of what it might look like to have our guts hanging out, or our throat slashed... bleeding to death. gurgle...gurgle...

To be afraid of a knife is to be afraid period. FEAR is the problem. People are even afraid to be scared!

If three guys with knives can take over a plane, so can...say... three big 'ol Arnold-sized dudes beating people with airplane armrests! I reckon the Airplane Rengers could take 'em out anyway. I know I'd start swinging my backpack or something even IF I had a knife! Maybe other passengers would catch on, and bury 'em in a sea of purses and bags full of books, Magazines, laptops, CD's... and hopefully one day... a pocket knife or two... that'll teach 'em not to jack MY plane!

BUT this situation won't happen to me until I can reason out the rules laid before me. It's the least I can do. Not give 'em MY money! Amtrak is more fun anyway! When I go overseas, I'll be enjoying a boat trip! WITH my sebenza, and SAK!
 
If you know the meds are blister packed, how about some forethought to take them out of the blister pack and into a film canister, or another container which would do the same thing before traveling by air?

Some forethought folks, it works very well at addressing known issues instead of complaining about it.

Box cutters/knives/edged weapons would still be and are viable threats to the safety of passengers. Not a much so now after 9-11 but certainly that threat has not gone away because of anything we have or have not learned from past events.

Essential needs that require a knife? Poor excuse to my thinking. Out of 100 people surveyed on the street at random will produce somewhere around 75% that are not carrying a knife, never carry a knife and find their life is not at a standstill when they have to open a package. You'd think by some posts here anyone withoput a knife was in serious doo doo and never were able to open packages [ after all, they don't have a knife ].

Pray tell, how do you think all those folks who never carry a knife get by all the years of thei lives? If they can, we can [ when we fly ]. Again, see above about a little forethought about the situation you are aware of and the circumstances you are going to be in. Solves many issues brougt up here by others and to my thinking some poor excuses for "needing" a knife on a plane flight.

I suppose everyone not carrying a knife never takes meds from blister packs as they can't open them without a knife? Please!!!!!!!!!!

You don't have to justify anything, just don't fly. You are not forced to fly by the gov. so it's a choice thing. Just like the choice I made to drive to Idaho here in about a month in lieu of flying. My choice, I can live with it, and if I can't, well, I'm the one who has the final choice about where to park my A$$ [ either on the plnae or in the car ].

Brownie
 
The security measures being taken are in ways counterproductive, and yes even a little hypocritical...

No knives, but knitting needles are ok...
No scissors, but insulin injections are ok...
No screwdrivers, but lighters and flammable cologne are ok...

It seems a little ludicrous at times, but the airline is attempting to recoup from some SERIOUS customer insecurities, and there is not a whole damn lot you can do to prevent lunatics ready to blow themselves to sh!t and gibblets from doing just that and taking a lot of innocent people with them. So we have a compromise, the think is, KNOWING how to react to these new restrictions.

You can do what Brownie and VampyreWolf have chosen to do.. NOT FLY. That's fine, and even admirable that they would choose to inconvenience themselves rather than compromise their principles.

You could do what most people do, and just take it, and bitch and whine about the inconvenience.

Or you can adapt to the new situation and discover how to cope under the new restrictions. If self defense is a concern, there are a number of instantly available implements on a commercial flight to allow you a fighting chance. A "duty free" catalogue tightly wound up, in trained hands is a viable tool of self defense. Really.

I think Brownie summed it up pretty well with
Some forethought folks, it works very well at addressing known issues instead of complaining about it.

In the last two years I have been on 7 flights, and am well versed in the inconveniences of airports and airlines. I have been in countries with extensive prohibitive knife lists, and have had to travel without in some areas. It sucks, for sure, but not everywhere is here. I just try to get by when I'm there.


Regards,

Shaun
 
I agree that if you want fly, you need to fly by the airlines/FAA rules. That's just life.

As far a whether it is right is another issue. If the US would be as strict as the Israeli's, there would be very little concern about weapons on flights. However, we are far from that level and we aren't even trying to get to that point. Funding is being cut for airline security.

As to my point earlier about uniformity. Yes, keep them guessing is a security technique, but in this case one that leaves too many opportunities to exploit. Based on my career in the security field, I can tell you, that logic works best when you're dealing with roving patrols or something that isn't quite as severe as flying, say maybe checking for underage drinkers. I would equate it to randomly locking the door to a jewelry store at night. One day, somebody will try the door and come in and clean you out. If the shoe thing is a viable weapon for a terrorist, randomly checking for that weapon and only looking for certain shoes accomplishes the same thing. One of these days, the shoe bomb will get through.

I think it's safe to say flying on an airplane is very much a microcosm of life in a larger city. You have all types that are there. Saying that not allowing guns or knives on a plane will make people safer doesn't completely wash. As stated before, if we operated like the Israelis, I could buy that. But we don't and it doesn't look like we will get close. So what you have is a plane full of people with supposedly at least one Air Marshal(though I am not confident in that, as I have heard that might not be true any longer). A terrorist, will have planned out how he will get his weapon on board and will most likely succeed if it isn't impromptu planning. Now, we have to rely on a plane of scared people who may or may not attempt to defend themselves and the plane without a weapon. If we're lucky, someone like Brownie will be on the plane and will be a major asset. Most likely, it will just be an average person. Personally, I'm not liking the odds on that scenario.

If we are going to do airline security, it should be complete and done right. I am not pleased with the current arrangement and will fly only when I have to. Of course, the Israelis are willing to shoot hostages too. So, I don't know how closely we would want to emulate them.
 
We don't "need" knives on the plane. We don't "need" knives on the street. We don't "need" to frighten our fellow citizens by talking too loudly (I worked with a man who told us to speak softer, we frightened him).

I think I'll switch to collecting embroidered hankies.

We NEED to encourage each other to think positive. Not how we suppress the bad guys, but how we empower ourselves.
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
Essential needs that require a knife? Poor excuse to my thinking.

Why does "your thinking" seem to always come back around to free people having to justify themselves to your thinking?
Or to a goverment agency which is, by most accounts, completely incompetent?
[/B]

Let's not forget that the TSA is the agency that is responsible for SLOWING and DELIBERATELY IMPEDING the congressionally-approved program to arm pilots. They are a bunch of schmucks, and their actions give lie to any claim that they are trying to increase the safety of the flying public.
<snip>
You don't have to justify anything, just don't fly. You are not forced to fly by the gov. so it's a choice thing. Just like the choice I made to drive to Idaho here in about a month in lieu of flying. My choice, I can live with it, and if I can't, well, I'm the one who has the final choice about where to park my A$$ [ either on the plnae or in the car ].
Brownie [/B]

A few years ago, some guy went and shot at people up in the Empire State Building, right? And after that, they put metal detectors there and people are searched before they enter the building as sightseers. Of course, all this means is that the NEXT attack will take place ELSEWHERE, since now the E.S.B. is "covered." Security-fetishists never seem to get this point.

As your argument goes, every time they infringe on our right to be armed for our defense in some venue, we who oppose such infringements should simply no longer use that venue. "Don't like flying without your knife? Don't fly. Don't like going to the observation deck of the Empire State Building without your knife? Don't go." The trouble is, we will never again get that right back once it is ceded. And every time you accept and DEFEND the taking away of that right, it is further weakened -- and more importantly, it is EASIER for them to rationalize taking away your rights in additional venues. Soon it may be shopping malls. We know it already goes on at Six Flags amusement parks.

How long before they take away your right, Brownie, to have a knife in a place where you CAN'T really avoid going?

---Jeffrey
 
AMEN to that. If I want to work in my chosen field, I must fly.

Peacefuljeffrey makes many good points.
I welcome Brownie's comments here. They point out the kind of no-free-will thinking all too common in today's world.
I don't remember Franklin's exact quote, but it was something like "Those who give up liberty for the sake of security deserve neither."
 
I'm keeping my liberty by driving to Idaho and having the choice of armament on and near me at all times. No liberty lost there ne thinks, I'll be armed to the teeth while driving and pulling into rest stops.

As to security, Ill be as secure as I can be and probably more so as by driving I can bring all kinds of things I wouldn't bring if flew to begin with.

After all, we are never secure in reality. It's a shell game we play to help us deal with the stresses of life and the dangers we face from our fellow humans. Secure?

Walking down the street armed to the teeth, are you secure? You may think you are but in reality, in public places, we are at risk of being blown up, shot first in a crowd at McDonalds, or Ruby's in Texas, etc. etc. Others can and will control your destiny even if you are walking around with a .50 cal strapped like Rambo, IF they want you bad enough.

The Isrealis are blown up everyday lately. Would they be more secure and in control of the that same fate which killed them if they had been armed with knives and guns? Didn't think so. So complaining about being searched, not "armed", disarmed to enter courts, planes, buildings, really is mute isn't it, unless you are the type that has to "feel" like you are in control by possessing and carrying those items.

Feels good to have them for sure, agreed on that, but when "unheeled" to participate in an activity like others at the same place and same time, the risk of a nut going off AND having weapons on their person have been reduced.

I'd rather be able to take them with me on airlines myself, sure would save a lot of time taken to get to the event I'm heading for, but alas, it isn't going to be as the world events and subsequent measures taken afterwards dictates IF I want to stay heeled, I'll drive.

Like is mentioned before, when unheeled you are not unarmed. Those that think they are have not taken the time think about alternatives and uncoventional weapons and their use from common items all around us everywhere we go, including the planes.

The idea that you are secure at any given time is an allusion. You can take steps to reduce the odds of contact with others, of injury through training in weapons which you then carry on your person, but then walking down the street a store front blows up and kills you on the sidealk. Were you secure? No. Did you take steps to help reduce the risks we face when in contact with others? sure.

Destiny, we travel paths where we have made choices that affect the outcomes at times by the roads we choose.

If you knew the stories about equipment failures in flight, aborted landings, near misses in midair as I have been privy to and which no passengers were aware of at the time of the incident [ but the crews were ], you wouldn't fly at all unless you had to.

We can fly for free anywhere in the world, we don't. Thats a path I'll not choose to take knowing what I know about that mode of transport. I've reduced my risks in many ways, not just about the weapons on board for me.

It's not really that tough a choice to make. It will not change anytime soon and anyone who thinks they can complain and change it back to before 9-11 by doing so is wasting time better spent training for the times they can be heeled.

To those who fly-------safe trips.

Brownie
 
What is so wrong about how our gov't has mishandled our national security after 9/11 has little to do with restricting any particular item in any particular place. That's small stuff.

The big stuff is what it is doing to our national character. We are increasingly encouraged to be passive, trusting the "professionals" to "protect us."

The single largest resource for safety and security nationwide has been willfully ignored, even after the example set by our first combatants in this "war on terror."

The Heroes of United Flight 93 FOUGHT BACK. They RESISTED. They "followed protocol for hijackings" until they found out enough to know the old rule was not going to help them. Then they acted. This is as it should have been.

The rules (of hijacking, and some other things) have changed. Unfortunately, our gov't hasn't. They are still power hungry, distrustful, ignorant, stubborn idiots. They enact more laws and regulations to keep us "safe," when what they should have done is to encourage us all to take responsibility for our own safety.

Real, long lasting, meaningful safety comes from the citizenry, not the government. "Homeland Security" and the TSA can at most provide a veneer of "security." But there aren't Air Marshals on all, or even most flights. These "officials" have deliberately stalled arming pilots.

Worst of all, they ignore all of the force embodied in air passenger rosters and what "ordinary folks" can do in an emergency.

On 9/11, the Pennsylvania passengers had to "wing it" when they realized the new paradigm. If they had known from the start to RESIST, then that plane wouldn't have crashed, and there would have been four dead or beaten terrs when they landed.

To this day, the lesson that Flight 93 taught in burned wreckage in an isolated field has been IGNORED by our "protectors."

There are, as far as I know, no guidelines on "use of force" by passengers upon an attempted hijacking. NONE.

INSTEAD, OUR CITIZENS ARE ENCOURAGED (UPON THREAT OF ARREST AND IMPRISONMENT) TO BE PASSIVE, COMPLIANT, OBEDIENT VICTIMS, WHO ARE FURTHER ENCOURAGED TO LOOK TO OTHERS FOR SAFETY AND SECURITY.

This goes far beyond any restrictions on tools on board aircraft. Yes, there are some good reasons to restrict some items on planes. Chemical sprays, certain flammables, untrained people with guns, maybe even trained people with guns. But not knives, kubotans, clubs and other impact tools.

The terrs would not get enough concealed ordnance on board to take over a plane full of RESISTORS, either armed or unarmed.

You either take "9/11" seriously or you don't. Stating that you don't want "any weirdo or nutcase" to have a knife or to think he is "Rambo" is not an excuse for treating passengers like cattle. Yes, the nutcase with a pocketknife can be a problem. But he can be dealt with without crashing the plane. Not so organized terrs.

They need to be dealt with by instant mass counterattack.

But there needs to be a plan and some education:

1. In an emergency, obey the flight crew.

2. If the flight crew is attacked, COUNTERATTACK IMMEDIATELY.

3. If there is a disturbance, find the flight crew for orders.

4. If flight crew is not available, take appropriate action. If there is violence involved, COUNTERATTACK IMMEDIATELY.

5. If someone is threatened (knife at throat, etc.), COUNTERATTACK IMMEDIATELY. Why? They could get hurt! Yes, and the plane could be crashed, killing all. The hostage's chance of survival in case of terrorist attack is to kill the terrs, so first aid can be rendered, and the plane can be landed so all injured can be treated.

5. EVERYONE PROTECTS THE COCKPIT AT ALL COSTS.


Since I'm not a regular flier, my examples above may need some modification (ie, maybe wait a measured minute for any Air Marshals to take action--after the minute, they probably aren't there), but they serve as an example. Training and education will reduce the ever-feared "overreaction." There could be some other things, too, like classification of certain fliers with police, military, security experience, etc.

Ignorance will only aid the terrs in their mission or will result in more danger due to a delayed counterattack.

Fliers know now that "it's just a hijacking, stay calm and obey them" is BS. "Ordinary hijackers" know that too. If they are stupid enough to try it, waste them.

Why are there no "rules of engagement" for fliers so we may better act in an emergency?

Because our gov't thinks we are incompetent fools, and wants us to think we are incompetent fools. I have no respect for most of these "experts." Including TSA, etc. THEY ACTIVELY ENCOURAGE US TO BE PASSIVE VICTIMS.

In the "war on terror" (as in all wars) we need THE SPIRIT OF RESISTANCE, not blind, unthinking compliance.

There are certain things the "authorities" can do better than the citizens: bomb detection (which they are behind at, since a lot of their silly "security" has gone into confiscating nail files), overseas intelligence, and running a military are some of those things. But daily security is something that all citizens need to be aware is THEIR JOB.

That is, OUR JOB. There are more "good guys" than terrorists, criminals and crazies. When push comes to shove, we will prevail. All we need is encouragement and some guidelines. In other words, "working together."

So far, no go. :mad:

Karl
 
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