Alaskan Guide wish for Cabelas and Buck

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Direct quote from an earlier post:

"Anyhow, Buck has never made an S30V blade as large as five or six inches. There must be a reason for that."


Once that statement was proven wrong, the focus turned to "production knives" only. ;)
 
But......Plumberdv can't stand it when there's no argument, so he has to try to start one.

Same old Plumber.
 
Plumberdv said:
Direct quote from an earlier post:

"Anyhow, Buck has never made an S30V blade as large as five or six inches. There must be a reason for that."

Once that statement was proven wrong, the focus turned to "production knives" only. ;)
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Dave is wrong, apparently he failed to read well. The discussion was clearly framed, as in:

I'm sure that I've read of other manufacturers running into even more problems when S30V was used in larger blades.

Maybe it's just because big, general use knives get beat up more than folders.

Anyhow, Buck has never made an S30V blade as large as five or six inches. There must be a reason for that.
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But the Plumber had to try and obfuscate with a fillet knife.

;)
 
"Plumberdv" didn't start any argument unless someone thinks providing the facts as starting one. "He" just provided information that a statement made here was false. I guess that's a no no and we should just let bad information stay without correcting it. And it wasn't just the filet knives. :rolleyes:
 
BG42EDGE said:
But......Plumberdv can't stand it when there's no argument, so he has to try to start one.

Same old Plumber.
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Let's stay on the subject of knives instead of attacking members.The Buck forum is a friendly place.Be nice.
 
sudonym said:
I have used my AG 110 for the last 7 years for mostly cleaning birds. It has performed very well. That being said, I didn't intend to start an argument. I thought with the performance I've got over the last seven hunting seasons with the S30V 110 that a 124 in S30V would perform equally well and be very cool.
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+1

Sudo,

I'll be second in line for the AG 124, Make it an old school full tang with Sambar stag;).
jb4570
 
LOL!

Try to keep the blood pressure under control, S30V fans......I found this thread, which is just one of a number of threads I've seen that indicate the 119 and the 124 would be bad applications for S30V.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/485714-s30v?highlight=buck+bolt+hammer

It contains this assessment, which seems to make a lot of sense.

S30V is optimized for edge retension. It is hard. With that hardness comes a degree of brittleness or lack of toughness. It's a properties tradeoff thing. An increase in one property comes at the price of a decrease in another. Rule of thumb that is, in general, true.

Large blades are more normally used for chopping branches, etc. For such work you want a steel that will be tougher than S30V. Typically, you want a carbon steel rather than stainless. If you did get a stainless blade, you would want one with a lower carbon content, something like 440A or 440B. Such steel would not have as good an edge retension as S30V, but it would withstand impact better.

You want edge retension in a skinner or fine cutting blade. That is going to be a 2"-5" blade. Larger blades than that are too large to make fine cuts because you can't adequately control them. S30V is perfect for skinners.
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So, that's probably why you won't see a big Buck in S30V.

Problem solved.

NO argument.
 
Would still like to hear from Buck on JB45-70's mystery 119 AG, though.

Maybe next week when Joe comes out of the woods for a home-cooked meal?

:)
 
I just dug this one out. Buck lists it as having a 4 7/8" blade but that depends on how it's measured (4 7/8" from the long point of the bolster) since the "blade" is one solid piece of S30V that measures 10" long end to end. It's a pretty hefty piece of steel.

KalingaProBlade.jpg
 
Yes, you can relax and quit searching, Dave. I'm well aware of all the knives Buck has made in S30V, and that one (like your fillet knife) does not fit the framework of the current big blade S30V discussion.

And, of course, it's another one that bit the dust for some reason.

They quit making it, didn't they?

I wonder why, because you'd think a skinner like that would be the perfect application for S30V. Skinning is light duty that will not bang up a blade edge in the way that general use and camping will bang up a blade edge.

After reading through that informative thread that I linked above, I'm thinking the best steel for this wished-for 124 or 119 would probably be something like 440C at a Rockwell of about 57-58 (and 425MOD and 420HC and that new 12C27MOD would also do just fine with the excellent Buck heat treat).

One thing I'm sure about......Buck will never make a big (six or more inches) general purpose knife in S30V. Just ain't gonna happen with a regular production knife because it doesn't make sense either financially or metallurgically.

It would be interesting to hear other suggestions of steels that would be a good fit for this dream knife.
 
Buck has produced the model Ergo Hunter Pro #498
It is a full tang model with the blade 120 mm of length , made of S30V steel.(120 mm is approx. 4 and 5/6 inches)
This model is a regular production knife.
Absolutely best as a skinner, hunting knife, multipurpose and a field knife, whether you have got the prey or not anyhow you can to snip a piece of sausage.:D
 
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Don't confuse an old and primitive American with metrics, Gary.

:)

I had to look that up to figure out it was about four and seven tenths inches.

We've been talking about 124s and 119s and that type of knife since the first couple of posts--big general use knives--and how S30V works in that type of application.
 
BG42EDGE said:
Yes, you can relax and quit searching, Dave. I'm well aware of all the knives Buck has made in S30V, and that one (like your fillet knife) does not fit the framework of the current big blade S30V discussion.

And, of course, it's another one that bit the dust for some reason.

They quit making it, didn't they?

I wonder why, because you'd think a skinner like that would be the perfect application for S30V. Skinning is light duty that will not bang up a blade edge in the way that general use and camping will bang up a blade edge.

After reading through that informative thread that I linked above, I'm thinking the best steel for this wished-for 124 or 119 would probably be something like 440C at a Rockwell of about 57-58 (and 425MOD and 420HC and that new 12C27MOD would also do just fine with the excellent Buck heat treat).

One thing I'm sure about......Buck will never make a big (six or more inches) general purpose knife in S30V. Just ain't gonna happen with a regular production knife because it doesn't make sense either financially or metallurgically.

It would be interesting to hear other suggestions of steels that would be a good fit for this dream knife.
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BG,

In one of your past rants about S30V and many folks here posting their real in the field experience. You discredited all of them as not being a real scientific test! Now when you were asked to produce the same scientific test data to back your claim you post random chat from an old thread. Not to scientific, when you only select what you want.

Here is the very next post from the link you provided, it's from a knife maker....and just chat not scientific, and not meant to be used as you have here....again.

"I don't know what to make of the chipping claims. It's not that I doubt people have chipped them, but I'm not sure the image of S30V being a "fragile" steel (as is increasingly the opinion) is accurate.

There are a lot of hard-use knives made of the stuff.

I kind of hate to mention it, but there was a guy on here a while ago (Noss4 or Nosh4 or something) that was beating up knives pretty good on tape. He did his thing to a Strider in S30V. I don't think you could watch that rather long and somewhat whacky little You-tube movie and come away thinking there's anything fragile about S30V. I mean they were chopping concrete and punching holes in steel and such. Really severe abuse.
Why some guys have their edges chipping on paper, as some have said, makes me think there's something going on in HT or heat-affected zones in laser cutting or something. (???)


Edit: In case you have some spare time and a decent share of patience, and care to see a piece of S30V being abused, here's that video:
http://www.knifetests.com/page7.html"

Now the only thing you have stated from me that I agree with is.......Buck/Cabelas, tell me where the AG119 is. "I WANT ONE", and have been watching and waiting for almost a year now. If and when they hit the store shelves I'll buy one and use it. My usage will only be real testing and not scientific, so BG will no doubt bash it....LOL

jb4570
 
JB, a test that is not done in a scientific manner is simply not a credible test.

That's common knowledge and cannot be refuted.

These anecdotal adventures where a guy is bragging about his favorite knife and says he skinned a bunch of deer and the blade still seemed sharp are simply meaningless in terms of actually coming to an accurate conclusion about a steel.

Many of the attempts at "tests" aren't much better.

It's incredibly hard to truly do "apples to apples" tests. There are so many, many, many factors to try to consider in order to compare one knife against another knife fairly.

In my experience, it is rarely done. Actually, I've never seen a fair and impartial test, although some say they exist somewhere. I'd like to see one.

Anyhow, I know you and many others love S30V.......you've made that clear, and it has obviously worked well for you.

I don't hate S30V, I just want to look at it in a realistic way because I think a lot of the hype has just been........hype.

It's good in some applications, not so good in others.......like most steels.

:)
 
I have no horse in this race as far as the suitibility of any steel for any size/application and never touted one over an other. Buck has in fact produced large/long blades in S30V as has been shown. Some are discontinued as production models, but so are many many other patterns which cannot be attributed to "unsuitable" steel. The 120, 124 and 184 come immediately to mind but there are many others. Some may have just run their course as far as sales go, who knows?

The AG filet knife is still available on Cabela's website. Maybe it is going to be discontinued, I don't know but I suspect that it's because of the price. I'm not one who is adverse to paying alot of money for a good knife, but I wouldn't pay even the discounted price for a filet knife.

The Kalinga Pro is a big honkin' piece of steel that was discontinued. Because of the S30V?? I doubt it since they could have continued with the 420HC models and or switched to the Sandvik stuff for the upgraded version.

The Simonich Raven? Who knows why it was discontinued? If there is any feedback or info to show that it was discontinued because of the S30V I'd love to see it and there again, a switch to a different steel could have been done IF there was a problem and the pattern continued.

I'll continue to base my opinions on knives and their steel by listening to real users and not some lab rats.
 
BG42EDGE said:
LOL!

Try to keep the blood pressure under control, S30V fans......I found this thread, which is just one of a number of threads I've seen that indicate the 119 and the 124 would be bad applications for S30V.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/485714-s30v?highlight=buck+bolt+hammer

It contains this assessment, which seems to make a lot of sense.
---------------------------------------------------------
S30V is optimized for edge retension. It is hard. With that hardness comes a degree of brittleness or lack of toughness. It's a properties tradeoff thing. An increase in one property comes at the price of a decrease in another. Rule of thumb that is, in general, true.

Large blades are more normally used for chopping branches, etc. For such work you want a steel that will be tougher than S30V. Typically, you want a carbon steel rather than stainless. If you did get a stainless blade, you would want one with a lower carbon content, something like 440A or 440B. Such steel would not have as good an edge retension as S30V, but it would withstand impact better.

You want edge retension in a skinner or fine cutting blade. That is going to be a 2"-5" blade. Larger blades than that are too large to make fine cuts because you can't adequately control them. S30V is perfect for skinners.
---------------------------------------------------------


So, that's probably why you won't see a big Buck in S30V.

Problem solved.

NO argument.
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That's exactly what I've been trying to say. There was that one guy who tried to call me an inexperienced chump over it, but he can take a hike.
S30V (and many of the other "powder steels") in fact DO crack and chip way more readily than the tool steels or the "regular ol' stainless" steels.
Big bowies are NOT made in S30V, because they would crack and break. They are made of non-stainless carbon steel, for toughness.
The superior edge holding ability of the SXXV steels comes along with brittleness. Brittleness, on a blade larger than a pocket knife, will cause cracks and breaks. End of story.
(Don't like it? Don't have to. It's physics.)

Edited to add:
I've chipped folding knife blades in S30V from Spyderco and Kershaw many times (NOT rolled... I find that S30V chips before it rolls, every time), and was present for the breaking of an S30V chopper (custom fixed blade) during a camping trip. So, yeah, go ahead and tell me I'm dreaming.
 
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Plumberdv said:
Buck has in fact produced large/long blades in S30V as has been shown.
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The ones you listed were not relevant. All you "showed" were discontinued blades of a type other than the knives under discussion. We were talking about the 124 and secondarily the 119. Big, general purpose hunting knives.

Not discontinued knives, not special projects, not fillet knives, or skinning knives, or mall ninja knives, or Swiss Army knives.

The AG filet knife is still available on Cabela's website. Maybe it is going to be discontinued, I don't know...
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You may not know, but knives that get REMOVED from the Cabela's catalog are discontinued.

The Kalinga Pro is a big honkin' piece of steel...
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But not one of the knives we're discussing.

The Simonich Raven?
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No.....again, not one of the knives we're discussing.

I'll continue to base my opinions on knives and their steel by listening to real users and not some lab rats.
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Good for you. Everyone should have an opinion.
 
"Anyhow, Buck has never made an S30V blade as large as five or six inches."
The knives mentioned and shown ARE relevant inorder to refute the above INCORRECT statement if for no other reason and that's the only reason they were mentioned and shown.
 
Context, context, context, Dave.

Your examples were irrelevant because they had nothing to do with the original topic.

That being the 124 being made in S30V.......remember?

You got off on a tangent for some reason.

;)
 
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