Allen C's banning

[Active Verb]

It's just my opinion. I'm not sure Allen C's banning is fair. I guess if you buy Hair's "ignorance is a human trait argument" and "you are stooping to a level below me" arguments, then its ok. FWIW, I don't see it. One BF member calling another member's opinion extremely sickening, misinformed and ignorant is as much of an insult as the reverse with the offended member calling the offender a "retard". If anything, I think the instigator of the name calling is more culpable. Your call. 10 days isn't much. At the same time, sending a message that if member A provokes member B and member B responds, it's member B that gets punished isn't a good message for the Forum. I just don't think Allen is a level below Hair. Both members have strong opinions about the class of knife they like. And that's fine. And I agree that personal attacks shouldn't be sanctioned. I just believe that calling a member ignorant is as much of an insult as calling him a retard. Allen's banning suprised me.

Verb

fwiw, Hair drew first blood.

here is Allen's first post, expressing his preference, doesn't mention Hair, just states his view of the 3 classes of the original poster.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4039661&postcount=40

And here is Hair's response.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4040021&postcount=45

Thread: What kind of folder do you really want? View Single Post
#45 10-10-2006, 02:05 PM
Hair
Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,419

Does anyone else find allenC's comments extremely sickening, misinformed, and just plain ignorant?

Sorry, but I pay more for knives for very damn good reasons- though our reasons may differ. I've owned knives from all three groups, and for me, the knives in group C almost always offer far more for the money (yes, PER DOLLAR) than those in the other two groups.

If you are interested in "performance" for as little money as possible, get an Opinel and be done with it.

But there is more to knives than performance for the money. And there is more to performance than push cutting paper. Performance is how the knife does its job, which includes everything from how well it connects to you in a caping grip, to how safe it is to close. I've never used a less expensive folding knife that is as functionally well thought-out as an SMF. Or transitions from grip to grip like a Sebenza. They absolutly blow away every BM, Spydie, Buck, Kershaw etc that I have used... in terms of overall performance, IMO. Performance to you may mean just cutting a piece of paper. Get an Opinel and then you can put down damn near everyone else and not feel jealous anymore. Want S30V? Get a Native. No reason to spend a lot of extra money on anything else. An Opinel will cut stuff, so anything more is just a poser knife, right?

I won't put anyone down for buying any knife. Do you think you can try explaining your preference without making other preferences seem stupid? I'm not exactly in the dark on the facts. Thanks.

Maybe I am just being too sensitive, but I think it is just ignorant to compare a Sebenza (for example) to Tommi jeans. A CRK is more expensive for very damn good reasons, not just because of the brand name and to sell to ignorant posers. I know the difference between a Sebenza and a 710 and a Manix and a Native. I know which is the best. I know which is the best for the money. The Sebenza is the answer in both cases, at least based on my wants and needs. Yours may vary.

Don't you own a custom Buck 110? Do those water buffulo scales increase the performance? Why didn't you just get the BG-42 replacement blade on a normal 110? It would be way cheaper. Seems like you paid a lot of extra money for no performance gain. Sounds like Tommi jeans... right?

I am not taking what you said to heart. I don't even own any Group C knives (folders) anymore. I just think it is disrespectful and a disgrace to the knifemakers that make very worthy knives that cost more than *YOU* are willing to spend. Don't ignore the advantages that such knives hold just because you don't want to pay for those advantages.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Hair : 10-10-2006 at 02:28 PM.

 

[Bastid]

Posted by AllenC:
"You're an idiot, plain and simple...and I really mean SIMPLE!
I can see now that you lack the metal capacity to understand what I have said in this thread.
You're the one that made this personal.
You're the one that was intolerant of my opinions.
But now I understand why....
because you're an idiot.
You can't help that you're stupid.

Go ahead and flame away, my misbegotten retard!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is why he was banned for 10 days.

Show me where Hair (who also was out of line to a lesser degree went that far and he will get the same. I did not see a post from Hair that approached AllenC's personal insults.)

The point to be made is that the type of post above is not going to be a part of the discussion forum.

Allen went over the top instead of reporting the post.
Hair reported the post stated he was out of line but not as far as AllenC.

 

[Bastid]

BTW there is a distinct differnce in calling an opinion or comment ignorant and calling a person an idiot and stupid lacking mental capacity.

One is about a distinct opinion, expressed thought or comment, the other is a general statement about a person.

My opinion could be wrong but I see a huge difference there.

 

[Active Verb]

BTW there is a distinct differnce in calling an opinion or comment ignorant and calling a person an idiot and stupid lacking mental capacity.

One is about a distinct opinion, expressed thought or comment, the other is a general statement about a person.

My opinion could be wrong but I see a huge difference there.

I think the opinion/person distinction is a veneer. And I would personally put less weight on the degree and more weight on the timing. Allen's first post clearly wasn't personal, Hair's was. Perhaps it's a difference on what factors to weigh. I don't think "extemely sickening, misleading and ignorant" is in a different class than "retarded". Agree to disagree.

Verb

 

[Bastid]

Thing is that "extemely sickening, misleading and ignorant" was directed towards a comment and "retarted, stupid and lacking mental capacity" was directed towards a person.

I doubt that there is a person alive who has not made an extemely sickening, misleading and ignorant comment in their life. I know I sure have, but that does not make me an idiot or stupid or lacking of mental capacity. So I do not consider the difference a veneer.

BTW as far as the opinions in that thread I happen to disagree with Hair and agree with Allen, but that does not make Hair an idiot or stupid or lacking mental capacity. Timing would have been much more of a consideration if Allen had reported the post rather than what I consider to be an escalation to personal insults. I do not get insulted when my opinion might be dumb, but I do get insulted when I am called dumb. That is still a big difference to me.

 

[Bastid]

And yes we can agree to disagree. We are just talking about opinions and not each other as people .

 

[huugh]

Maybe I see where it went wrong:

Thing is that "extremely sickening, misleading and ignorant" was directed towards a comment

whereas

Does anyone else find allenC's comments extremely sickening, misinformed, and just plain ignorant?

I have checked the thread now and there was only one AllenC's post BEFORE Hair's post quoted above, therefore there was no need for plural (if it was supposed to comment just and only AllenC's post)

I feel that calling someone's comments extremely sickening, misinformed, and just plain ignorant is an insult as well.

Of course I can be wrong as English is not my mother tongue.

 

[samhain73]

I agree, that saying someones opinion is sickening etc. is an insult as well.
Really who cares what the man prefers? That's like saying "You don't like Gucci-Armani....That's sickening!" Kinda silly, and a weird perspective in my opinion.
But AllenC did go way more personal than Hair did.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Does anyone else find allenC's comments extremely sickening, misinformed, and just plain ignorant?

Hair can get contentious. I had him on Ignore for a while and since this incident, I have returned him to that lofty status. I'm sorry allenC didn't do the same, instead of trying to discuss the proposition with him.

I can't tell you how many times I've done exactly the same as allenC, written out the same kind of response, checked it for spelling and punctuation, and deleted it unposted.

I look forward to his return.

 

[Hair]

I didn't want to post here because it may be inappropriate, but I feel the need to defend myself.

huugh- I wrote "comments" because he made multiple comments in that one post. Yes, he only made one post prior to my reply, but it had multiple comments in it. I was not refering to past comments or posts he made.

sam- I did not say "You don't like Gucci-Armani....That's sickening!". You misunderstood me. Allen basically said that people that buy Gucci-Armani are buying for the name alone and do not know the facts. I said his comments were sickening. Not because he doesn't like "Gucci-Armani", but because he is judging the people that do and assuming he knows their reasons. He said
"If you buy Gucci-Armani, you don't know the facts."

I have never, EVER put someone down for their opinion on a knife, liking a knife I do not like, or disliking a knife I do like. The issue I took with his comments is that *HE* was judging other people for their preferences and saying that people that buy knives over $200 are doing so without knowing the facts.

A lot of people don't seem to understand this. They think I am putting him down for not liking knives over $200. It is the opposite. He is putting people down for liking knives over $200 (or at least appeared to through very poor word choices), and I took issue with that.

If you actually read the thread instead of scanning it and deciding I am a jerk, this is very clear. I never said one knife is better than another and that people that disagree are wrong. I say that certain knives are better for my wants and needs and that I am not in the dark on the facts to buy them.

He later recanted and clarified his statements, but only while still argueing with me (and yes, I was argueing too), and so the arguement continued even though he basically agreed with me and took back the comments that I found ignorant and sickening (at least through clarification).

I feel that if one says "I will not pay over $200 for a knife." and then adds "some people will buy a more expensive knife because they think that means it is better, without actually knowing the facts", it implies that the "some people" are those that will buy a $200 knife. That is what I took issue with. He later said that the "some people" was only refering to a percentage of people that buy more expensive knives, and that some of them buy them for good reasons and do know the facts. A simple misunderstanding? Sure. But I think his word choice was extremely strange, especially since it makes little sense to bring up that some people in this world will buy expensive things because they assume they are better. What does that have to do with the thread? Why say he will not pay more than $200 for a knife and then go on to talk about how some people will buy expensive things because they wrongly assume that means they are better without aknowledging that sopme people buy expensive things because there is something about that 'thing' that makes it better for them than something less expensive?

 

[Vivi]

What I find issue with is the inconsistency of this. I've seen myself and other members get blatantly called "idiot" or "moron" outside of Whine and Cheese and it can be overlooked or warned. Was AllenC's case different due to how often he repeated his remarks, or was there more to it?

 

[GigOne]

What I find issue with is the inconsistency of this.

I've seen myself and other members get blatantly called "idiot" or "moron" outside of Whine and Cheese and it can be overlooked or warned.

Have you taken the time to step back at look at why (i.e., honestly looking at the content of your posts) ? Duhhhhhhh !

Evidently, you believe that the Mods read EVERY post made on BFC. NEWS FLASH ~ they don't. Isn't that shocking ?

If you take such issue with being called an idiot and or moron, have you bothered to report it to the Mods ? There is a function to do such.

Was AllenC's case different due to how often he repeated his remarks, or was there more to it?

Go back and reread this thread. The answer to your question is obvious.

 

[TLM]

Go back and reread this thread. The answer to your question is obvious.

So I read:

"retarted, stupid and lacking mental capacity"

If one kills somebody he is dead, if he is "killed" three times he is still only dead. So ??????

TLM

 

[Vivi]

Have you taken the time to step back at look at why (i.e., honestly looking at the content of your posts) ? Duhhhhhhh !

Evidently, you believe that the Mods read EVERY post made on BFC. NEWS FLASH ~ they don't. Isn't that shocking ?

If you take such issue with being called an idiot and or moron, have you bothered to report it to the Mods ? There is a function to do such.

So if someone disagrees with my post, that entitles them to break the rules? Does that mean I'd be justified flaming you and spamming porn images in this reply? Of course not. I was flamed for multiple pages for having a defective knife. I see very little justification in that.

The last thread such an incident occured, a mod actually edited the members post and that's all that was done to my knowledge. I wouldn't be surprised if he received a warning from said mod as well, but this is the inconsistency I speak of. AllenC was given a temp ban (Rightfully so in my eyes) but the poster I'm referring to wasn't. If it takes repeated insults to get someone a temp ban, fine, that's all the information I was asking for. Simple clarification on my inquiry would put the matter to rest for me.

 

[GigOne]

So if someone disagrees with my post, that entitles them to break the rules?

You missed the point.

I was flamed for multiple pages for having a defective knife.

Could be. I haven't seen the thread and have better things to do than search for it. Again, did you report the post(s) ? If not, ohhhh well.

The last thread such an incident occured, a mod actually edited the members post and that's all that was done to my knowledge.

By your response, I'm assuming that you didn't bother to approach the moderator. If you didn't, again, ohhhh well and shame on you.

I wouldn't be surprised if he received a warning from said mod as well, but this is the inconsistency I speak of.

Let's see. . . .how many sub-forums, how many moderators, how many different personalities, how many different ways the "rules" are interpreted. I pray, everyday, that the world will be a perfect place to be. It doesn't work, but nonetheless, I continue to pray.

Simple clarification on my inquiry would put the matter to rest for me.

Ahhhhh. . . . .so this is about YOU.

I chuckle at threads like this one. The mods have a tough job being a referee and having others, who don't have all of the specifics, calling their decisions into question or want them to explain every little thing that they do. More humorous, when an explanation is given. . . . .it's still not good enough !

 

[TLM]

Could be. I haven't seen the thread and have better things to do than search for it.

And you still feel more than qualified to comment on it. Clueless???!!

TLM

 

[GigOne]

Didn't mean to confuse you so.

In the future, try to read the entire response, instead of trying to make a portion of it fit your "clueless" perspective and take what I stated out of context.

Here. . . .

Could be. I haven't seen the thread and have better things to do than search for it. Again, did you report the post(s) ? If not, ohhhh well.

 

[TLM]

In the future, try to read the entire response, instead of trying to make a portion of it fit your "clueless" perspective and take what I stated out of context.

I did read the whole response but that was even worse, you were giving advice without knowing what it was about.

TLM

 

[GigOne]

I did read the whole response but that was even worse, you were giving advice without knowing what it was about.

TLM

Talk about "clueless!"

You'd get lost with GPS !

 

[TLM]

GO is apparently not totally without a sense of humour:

Talk about clueless

atleast he(?) can laugh at him(?)self.

TLM