Altoid PSK for BSA

boxpipe said:
Deck of cards.



I know, I know...still...
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Yup. Someone will show up to tell you to play the red seven on the black eight and there you are - saved. :D

Remember, those Bic's work if they are kept above freezing but are most :) in the Summer.
 
Tohatchi NM said:
1 quart plastic bags make a good emergency water container - the kit could go in this if scouts are going to be careful, otherwise it could be double-bagged or folded up.

folding razor blade (available at county comm for cheap) might be a good blade alternative. I have some concern about the blade folding up, but it's very compact, inexpensive, and better than a bare razor blade. My first choice would be a locking blade, like the spyderco ladybug.

Small saw - I always use the standard wire saw, but there is a folding saw similar to the folding razor blade. If you want to buy in bulk for many kits, the manufacturer is the Derma-Safe company.

LED light - good for signaling, OK for route finding. Also available inexpensively at CountyComm.

+1 on the hot spark or similar sparker.

Possibly a few feet of surveyor's tape? It would run counter to standard "lost" protocol (stay put) to use this as a trail marker, but it could be used for signaling - tie at head-height on a tree or make a small flag to wave. If someone is looking for you, either would make you more visible, especially if you fall asleep during the night.

Small card with survival tips/positive mental attitude stuff.

Sounds like a great project, keep us updated on the results!
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These are great ideas!
 
In a altoids sized tin i would suggest the following...
1. a book of paper matches
2. 30 ft. braided fishing line wrapped around a finish nail or sewing needles
(I got the idea of using a drill from M40)
3. 3 split shot
4. 6 fish hooks
(I used the paper tape technique from Ron Hood)
5. Credit Card fresnell lense
6. BSA Hot Spark fire sriker
7. 3 Square feet of tin foil
8. 1/2 renolds oven bag with twist tie
9. 2 hard candies
10. 1 Very loud, pealess whistle
11. 1 paper sheet survival primer
12. 3 cotton balls or Double-00 steel wool

I would also reccoment checking out the Hug-A-Tree foundation. NOT the Tree Huggers foundation. Here is a link http://www.gpsar.org/hugatree.html
 
Don Rearic said:
Immodium.

If the kid is allergic to bees, s/he shouldn't be out in the woods without two Epi-Pens, Jr. or Standard, depending on what s/he Doctor Rxs for. Antihistamines are only going to do so much, i.e., very little, for a real bee allergy.

They should also be well-versed in how to use them. I taught my son how to use his on a lemon with one of his Epi-Pens when it went out of date.
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Antihistamine is far far up the ladder of importance over immodium.

Frankly it goes without saying that a person with an epi pen should have one available always. That isn't something I would worry about in a generic PSK. However, one doesn't know when allergies will strike, or who they will hit. Anybody can become allergic to anything at any time.

Good uses for Benedryl:
Allergic rhinitis

Anaphylaxis; Adjunct

Chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting (which also means some use in other causes of n and v)

Common cold

Possibly Cough

possibly Drug-induced hypotension

Extrapyramidal disease - Medication-induced movement disorder

Hyperemesis gravidarum (so may help in puking kids)

Insomnia

Local anesthesia

Motion sickness (Troop leader, I'm car sick :barf:)

Parkinsonism

Pruritus of skin (Ohhhh that is poison ivy)

possibly Sleep terror disorder (Why is Johnny screaming in the night? Scouts honor we didn't do anything!!!!)

Granted you shouldn't see all that in the woods, especially a bunch of Boy Scouts but that drug is darned useful.
 
You guys are the best. There's so much good information here that it's going to take me a bit to digest it all and I thank each of you for your suggestions.

At this point, we have:

tins

bubble compass

40 lb braided line. I also have 125 lb braided line if that would be a better choice.

heavy duty foil

storm proof matches. I'll use the double boiler method, with wax half-way down the match.

fishing supplies. I have a ton of hooks but am leaning more toward smaller sizes that would be more suitable for brim or trout. Split shot is no problem either.

I like the birthday candle idea and it seems easier than cutting up a camp candle.

Signal mirror. Polishing the lid of the tin seems like it would make for a suitable, albeit crude, signal mirror.

I like the hard candy. I think a piece of candy for a boy who's spending an unsure night in the woods might provide a measure of comfort as much as a snack.

I'll pick up some reynolds baking bags.

Benedryl seems like a good addition too, though maybe just one or two tablets.

Got to pick up some water purifying tablets.

Also really like the BSA fire striker. Nice and small.

Simple first aid supplies.

Got to figure out some kind of blade that we can add that won't be expensive or too dangerous. My son has a small SAK as well ans a small multi-tool but I don't know about the others.

Probably will use a section of bicycle tire to help secure the tin. Might be handy for a cruse sling shot or some other use.

We already have some good survival whistles. Small and flat, should fit well.

And lastly, I think, some fire straws. That should make a fun project for the boys too.

Thanks for hanging around while I think out loud. lol

Anything I'm missing???
 
this is mine (one of a bunch actually)

i know its not an altoid can but i like the compartments and it was only 0.99 from wally world...all of that thats in it came from an altiod PSK
 
What would you guys think about painting the tin a bright color so it would be more visible if one of the boys dropped it on the trail? Too much trouble, too big a mess? I wonder if they could be powder coated? I say that just cuz I love getting stuff powder coated. lol
 
Tohatchi NM said:
The epinephrine in the Epi-Pen is a first-line measure. It keeps your throat from constricting and closing off the airway. Long-term treatment requires antihistamines to reduce the inflammation. Normal protocol for someone with a bee-sting allergy is to use the epi-pen, then call an ambulance - the EMTs will administer an antihistamine and possibly steroids. If you're in the backcountry, you better have some Benadryl handy after you use your epi-pen, or you're going to be back in trouble in about 20 or 30 minutes.
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That's why I said you need two Epi-Pens, just for that reason. I was not saying that antihistamines are "useless," I was saying they are a lost cause for someone who is allergic to bees, gets stung and doesn't have an Epi-Pen.

The steroid you speak of would, depending on the Doctor, be Methylprednisolone, that's what my package says anyway. That particular drug is particularly handy for asthmatics when they are suffering the aftermath of a lung infection, etc.

I got my info from the SOLO wilderness first aid course. Obviously, you have some direct experience with your son - if you have better information, I'd be interested in hearing it. I'm not a doctor, and it would seem like anyone who has a serious allergy (to bees or otherwise) and expects to be away from fast emergency response should discuss post epi-pen measures with his or her doctor.
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It's not that I have better information, I just didn't elaborate, I was more concerned that someone would think Benadryl is going to save the day when you don't have an Epi-Pen - that was my specific point. Another thing you have to consider, even after administering an Epi-Pen, liquid Benadryl would be faster acting and easier to swallow as well which kind of puts the end to the "it will fit in the tin" concept of carrying everything in a small box.

Also, there's an epi-pen trainer for the auto pens. It works like the standard autoinjector, without the needle. It's a good training tool, and you can use it many times for repeated practice.
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I know, I have used them as well. Nothing beats the real thing with a piece of fruit. :)





zenheretic said:
Antihistamine is far far up the ladder of importance over immodium.
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It can be, if you happen to need it. If you happen to eat something that doesn't agree with you or worse, drink something nasty and you have a shitty reaction to it, pardon the pun, Immodium is real important then! :D

Granted you shouldn't see all that in the woods, especially a bunch of Boy Scouts but that drug is darned useful.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure that I would be more concerned with the rooty-toot-scoots than the night terrors though. But, to each his own. :)
 
Anybody know if anybody makes a deck of playing cards with survival tips printed on them? Seems like a good idea.
 
Don - thanks for the clarification. Indeed, with something like an epi-pen the "one is none" mantra applies. Certainly anyone with a known allergy should have two, or at least the dual-dose model if they can give the second injection. You definitely need the pen to get you through the first stages of the reaction. If you're off-pavement, you also need to be prepared for secondary treatment with benadryl or a better prescription. I had only heard this recently, which seems dumb. If you're a scout leader or the like, you should be prepared for dealing with an allergic attack but lots of people don't get this info unless they have a relative with the problem.

Again, thanks for the real-world take.
 
BSA hot spark, Excellent tool, but there's one problem with it. The supplied striker is just about worthless (in my experience anyway). It helps if you sharpen it, but it doesn't work nearly as well as knife blade. I keep a Hot Spark on lanyard of my swiss army knife. I also carry hot spark, striker, and waterproof aluminum pill container all on one lanyard. That striker (excellent) is made from old Fiskars scissor blade that my kids wore out. It already has the hole in it. I don't know how many you need, but you could make some out of hacksaw blades. Break them to short lengths and grind off sharp corners. I'm rambling, but I would definitely teach them this skill. RELIABLE! Good Luck
 
I forgot to mention that pill container is stuffed with 00000 steel wool as mentioned earlier. Also, if you use something like an altoids tin for your kit, it can be used to make charcloth which is an excellent spark catcher. Fill it with cotton balls (or material) and throw it on the coals. After a while smoke will pour out of little holes where hinge is. When smoke stops, take off and smother with dirt to stop the combustion process. That's it...kind of fun for them to make. Your tin, though blackened, is still useable.

I should add that the tin will be giving off toxic fumes from burning paint on 1st heating, so stay clear.
 
I know its not an altoids box but its about the same size. Some of the items are kinda hard to see in the pics but I'll break it down for ya.

RonsPics001.jpg


RonsPics002.jpg


1. Of course I've got the mini bic (in orange too)

2. The baggie to the right of the bic is cotton balls and pj in a plastic bag

3. down from there is about 6 feet of cordage

4. down from the is a leatherman micra

5. to the right of the micra is a little plastic ear plugs box that I turned into a container for fishing line, hooks, and ibuprofen

6. Top and right of that is some heavy duty dental floss wrapped around a hefty sewing needle

7. Down from it is a baggy with potable water tablets.

8. Down and left of the pota tablets are some of those trick candles that you can't blow out. (thought they may be nice in the wind)

9. And to the left of that (the one you've all been scratching your heads about) is 6 ft. of rolled up aquarium tubing held together with packing tape. Why the aquarium tubing you say, well I hike most often in the desert and many potential survival water sources are inaccesible because they're down in rocks and crevices, so this little baby will allow me to access water that would otherwise be inaccessible. Just a little example of how your kit needs to reflect the type of terrain you're wandering about in.

10. Oh and last but not least you may have or may have not noticed that I've stuck about 15 strips of duct tape on the container itself.
 
Tohatchi NM said:
Don - thanks for the clarification.
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No problem, some times I post faster than I want to because I have to get something else done and make a halfassed post. :)

You definitely need the pen to get you through the first stages of the reaction. If you're off-pavement, you also need to be prepared for secondary treatment with benadryl or a better prescription. I had only heard this recently, which seems dumb. If you're a scout leader or the like, you should be prepared for dealing with an allergic attack but lots of people don't get this info unless they have a relative with the problem.
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I think it is because we live in the 'burbs and extremely close to Baltimore City, saving your life is just a MedEvac Flight away here and I think that sort of clouded my Son's Pediatrician's judgment when it comes to this stuff because she never told me he should have a second one on hand. I read about it on the Internet. I'm not a Doctor, you know? I will tell you something though, if you have to take any type of medication or your wife or kids do, you really need to try to become one! She never told me that my son might need another dose of epi anywhere from 20-40 min. later.

In fairness to her, the Pediatrician before her, she never told me that either. It was reading websites/forums and seeing ParaMedics talking about it that made me stock the second one.
 
I'm still collecting items for the boys PSK's and have a couple of questions so I thought I'd bump this thread rather than start another. Hopefully some of you guys can weigh in.

I'm looking at water purification tablets and wondering which you would recommend as the best overall? It seems like individually sealed tablets would be great considering these are 12 year-olds. I like the Katadyn tablets but don't have enough info to make an informed decision.

Also, I know many of you add heavy duty foil but I'm not clear on it's use?
 
texas slim ,thanks for bumping this thread I use and have used Katadyn Micro-Pur tablets and also old school tabs. The Katadyn Micro-Pur tablets take about four hour two disinfect water. they are very good in a tin because they come individual packets. also they have no nasty after taste. by the away my altoid tin as in it 3 katadyn tabs , mini bic , cotton tinder, sas wire saw ,a tiny led light , two quarters, and oven bag. then i warped it in para cord.
 
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