Am I Out Of Line Here?

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HammerHill

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Just wanted to share an experience I just had with a buyer to get some feedback on how I handled it and if I'm overreacting or out of line.

Made a deal with BUYER for a fairly low-priced item I had listed on the exchange ($50). I had listed the price as "net," meaning that if he chose to pay with Paypal it would be his responsibility to cover the fee. A pretty standard practice, imho - I know it's a fair price for the item and I'm happy to accept other, fee-free payments (google wallet, send me cash in the mail if you insist, whatever).

BUYER pays, and when I notice he didn't account for the fee I send him a friendly message asking him to cover it before I ship out the item. I assume it was an honest mistake, no big deal. And it's not like I'm losing lots of money here - we're talking $1.75. To me it's more of a moral thing: I was clear about the terms of the deal up front, and he hasn't yet fulfilled his side of the bargain.

So he writes back saying he was confused about what "net" means, that I should have been more explicit about how much he needed to pay, that it's ridiculous of me to ask for such a small sum, etc. So I give him the benefit of the doubt, and decide to forget about the petty handful of quarters he owes me and just ship him the item.

Next day, after I ship the thing out I update the tracking number in Paypal. But I just can't shake this bad feeling I have about BUYER. So I check through his post history, and find - among numerous petty complaints about deals where he didn't get exactly what he wanted - a long thread he started complaining about sellers who factor Paypal fees into their asking price.

So he knew what he was doing. He was just feigning confusion to get his way, saving himself a couple bucks while still enjoying Paypal's buyer protection. I write BUYER a message telling him that if he doesn't send me the $1.75 he weaseled out of paying I'd leave negative feedback.

SO: who's the crazy one? Me for making such a stink over such a tiny sum, or him for trying to skirt around the terms of a deal he disagreed with?
 
Him trying to skirt the terms. Though, I'll be honest, net to me is a phrase that invariably makes me move to the next seller.
 
If what your saying is true about his messages to you and previous post I would guess your in for a long ride on this sale good luck
 
Personal opinion only. I think that was very sneaky and rude on his part and wouldn't deal with him again. On the other hand, once you shipped you probably gave up the $1.75. I wouldn't go down the negative feedback road as he will probably just reciprocate.
 
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Write this guy into your Ignore List (he is a shit head) and move on. You are right to feel burnt but the deal is done.
For what it's worth as a buyer I want to know the TOTAL COST - none of this NET stuff. What is your final asking price?

I struggle with this as a seller - especially recently - as I have been selling knives in the $600.00 range. Those fees add up.
I hate writing in those extra $$s. I've tried to be coy and let the S&H and other fees fall on the buyer but in the end
the question from the buyer is - what will I pay?

I admit that most folks don't seem to know how the fees factor in to the total cost and that the seller is NOT making stupid profit.
The buyers - most of the time - just don't care. They only want to know the final price.

I think the fastest sales and those with the least aggravation layout ALL THE TERMS up front.

Just sayin'
 
RayseM said:
Write this guy into your Ignore List (he is a shit head) and move on. You are right to feel burnt but the deal is done.
For what it's worth as a buyer I want to know the TOTAL COST - none of this NET stuff. What is your final asking price?

I struggle with this as a seller - especially recently - as I have been selling knives in the $600.00 range. Those fees add up.
I hate writing in those extra $$s. I've tried to be coy and let the S&H and other fees fall on the buyer but in the end
the question from the buyer is - what will I pay?

I admit that most folks don't seem to know how the fees factor in to the total cost and that the seller is NOT making stupid profit.
The buyers - most of the time - just don't care. They only want to know the final price.

I think the fastest sales and those with the least aggravation layout ALL THE TERMS up front.

Just sayin'
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Yeah I think that might be my biggest takeaway from this. I always thought of "NET" as a good way to keep things simple, by rolling the possible fees and costs of shipping into the final price. I see now that it's better to be transparent and explicitly specific about HOW and HOW MUCH you want to be paid.
 
I see your problem, he probably was trying to get around your "plus the fee" policy. However the "net to me" idea is pretty silly just up your price or don't offer paypal payment as an option, putting the fee on top of the price is against paypal rules and it makes people skip your sales altogether. However things went you are technically the one "changing" the deal after the fact and I would avoid negative feedback and take the whole thing as a lesson.
 
Yea - seems like a cheapskate.

Count your blessings your "loss" is less than two bucks and move forward taking the high road.

That is what I would do. If the fellow is otherwise holding up his end of the bargain then the next time be explicit about how much money you need to have shipped to you.

best

mqqn
 
Best part is the visitor messages between them where the buyer asks the seller if he's poor I was like wtf he knows what he's doing
 
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If you leave negative feedback, he can reciprocate the same. Something to think about.
If you feel you got scammed, call him out here so the whole community can see whom it is.
People are on my ignore list because of what's been exposed here.
 
I add the fees and shipping to what I want to net and list that as the sales price. I figure it's worth the few percent to not have to take a money order to the post office to cash it, or deposit a check and wait 2 weeks, etc. IOW it's just a cost of doing business. I can't imagine a buyer turning down a purchase for 3.5%, and some of what I sell has a range of reasonable pricing. I pick a price to start in the middle or upper half of what I think that range is, and if I want to sell the item I usually have to accept a little price negotiation with the buyer.

If that few percent bothers you then you could list the higher price and then offer a discount of 3.5% if someone pays you with a no-fee payment. That complies better with the paypal rules anyway.

But back to the question- it appears that the buyer did understand and he was just trying to play you for a small amount of money. I think all of us understand what "net" means but maybe some people don't understand. I don't think you were out of line to ask for compliance with the agreed-upon deal. Leaving feedback is up to you, I tend to be non-confrontational so I probably wouldn't.
 
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A seller should decide how much he wants for his knife. Then add in shipping & handling and any other costs. Then ask the buyer for that total, TYD meaning to your door. Breaking it down and expecting the buyer to total it up to what you did is asking for confusion or argument.

What kind of negative feedback did you have in mind? You ended up making the deal, sending him the knife anyway. He may have conned you into letting it go, but that is not a legitimate reason for negative iTrader feedback. You would end up getting an infrsction if you did that.

Let it go or post your complaintmin GBU.
 
How did the private conversation after he said "I'll take it" play out?

A paraphrase if you don't want to post the PMs or emails would be appreciated as well.

Edit: Didn't realized it was done via visitor message. I'll go read that.
 
gonebad395 said:
Best part is the visitor messages between them where the buy asks the seller if he's poor I was like wtf he knows what he's doing
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Wow, incredibly rude. Thanks for pointing that out. On ignore now so I don't take a chance of dealing with him.
 
gonebad395 said:
Best part is the visitor messages between them where the buy asks the seller if he's poor I was like wtf he knows what he's doing
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;)

After reading all the responses here so far I have decided to take this as a lesson in how to better run a sale, and drop the whole negative feedback thing. Also, as Esav pointed out, that wouldn't be an appropriate use of the iTrader system.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
What kind of negative feedback did you have in mind? You ended up making the deal, sending him the knife anyway. He may have conned you into letting it go, but that is not a legitimate reason for negative iTrader feedback. You would end up getting an infrsction if you did that.

Let it go or post your complaintmin GBU.
Click to expand...

Please listen to this

I was too slow, glad you are moving on
 
Wilsonhome said:
Wow, incredibly rude. Thanks for pointing that out. On ignore now so I don't take a chance of dealing with him.
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Exactly. This is why GBU can still be better than iTrader for situations like these. You can tell a lot of people what someone is like in a couple of GBU pages of rolling condemnations.
 
I agree with Esav, the seller should keep it simple. It's difficult enough to communicate on a deal, without adding complicated accounting into the mix.
 
HammerHill said:
Yeah I think that might be my biggest takeaway from this. I always thought of "NET" as a good way to keep things simple, by rolling the possible fees and costs of shipping into the final price. I see now that it's better to be transparent and explicitly specific about HOW and HOW MUCH you want to be paid.
Click to expand...

How can "Net" be easier than one price, all in, shipped to your door? I don't understand why or how people still think of this. When YOU sell something and want to be paid by Paypal, the fees are YOURS to pay, not the buyers. It's much easier to add YOUR costs all into the price. Don't make people have to do the math to pay YOUR fees.
Here is 18 pages on a Paypal discussion:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1163713-Another-Paypal-Discussion

Exchange Rules:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=699&a=98
Warning: You as a buyer are responsible for using Paypal as it was intended, according to their Terms of Service. Using the "Gift" option revokes any buyer protection you may have if something goes wrong and makes it easier to get scammed. Be smart and protect yourself, if you use gift and get scammed don't come crying to us about it as you've already been advised.
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If you leave a negative feedback over $1.75, I'd say you surely are the crazy one. Contemplating such a thing is enough to make some people think twice about dealing with a person like that.

I've seen all kinds of crazy happen in deals since I've been a moderator here. I've gotten in the middle of even worse kinds of crazy. One thing remains constant, when a thread gets started here the best chance for success is to make sure the topic is something substantial. Getting bent about some little triviality is enough to make the thread spin around and make the OP look like the bad guy. It happens a lot more often than you can imagine.

You say it;s a moral issue, not a financial issue, so how are the morals of not using Paypal the way it was intended to be used? All those people that say "Net to me" or "please add some outrageous percentage ranging from 3%-7% to the price" are WRONG. It could be the buyer had a case of a moral dilemma too. Just my opinion, based on hundreds and hundreds of threads, transactions, and thousands of posts read over the last 6+ years.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Exactly. This is why GBU can still be better than iTrader for situations like these. You can tell a lotmof pepple what someone is like in a couple of GBU pages of rolling condemnations.
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This^^^ more people will see this then his any feedback you can leave chalk it up as a learning experiance
 
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