Am I Out Of Line Here?

[KELAMA]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1384506-Peak-Eiger-SOLD?p=15957209#post15957209

^ Oh, this member. I'd be willing to bet, that he knew exactly what he was doing!

In my experience, the term "net," has always been a rather ambiguous term (different meaning to different sellers). Regardless- I'm always of the mindset/interpretation, that "net" means: add the PayPal fees. I think that most prudent member on this forum, have the same interpretation.

Personally, if this were me, I would have listed this flashlight for $55, to include payment via PP Goods (which in my agreement per PayPals user policy), & USPS shipping.

I'm not exactly certain where that $$$ amount line is, however, $1.75 certainly isn't worth any type of aggravation, or drama. You could always spend $30 & do a USPS postal intercept.

Edit:

Best part is the visitor messages between them where the buyer asks the seller if he's poor I was like wtf he knows what he's doing

^ I just read the V.M.'s. Priceless!

Double Edit:

I don't understand the OP's claim that making things more complicated makes them simpler.

This thread is the very first time I come across the notion that Paypal fees are the buyer's responsibility to figure out. The whole point of Paypal is simplicity...

Gaston

^ Gaston:
This subject regarding PayPal fee's, and how they're used/misused here on BladeForums, has always been a contentiously debated topic of discussion. This will continue to be a subject of controversy, so long as there are seller's here whom insist on selling using, "THEIR OWN" terms, rather that the terms stipulated my PayPal- the very term's all PayPal member's (in this case seller's) agree to adhere to.

The exact same member jerked me around on a low priced item a few months ago. Same situation but with no money exchanged. Basically disrupted a sales thread, said PayPal sent, when I messaged him approximately four times to let him know I hadn't received anything he finally says "oh guess it wasn't meant to be." I'm not gonna get into the whole PayPal/net discussion but this user is doing this kind of stuff on purpose.

^ Seminole31:
R Gray, was involved in another GBU thread about a year ago. He made either made his own stipulation/condition to a sale, for an item he wanted. The seller ended up moving on & sold to the next taker, because of the red flags. Sure enough he (RGray) came in the GBU & had an epic melt down; that is, until RevDevil, put the hammer down in it!

 

[Kazual]

I add the fees and shipping to what I want to net and list that as the sales price. I figure it's worth the few percent to not have to take a money order to the post office to cash it, or deposit a check and wait 2 weeks, etc. IOW it's just a cost of doing business. I can't imagine a buyer turning down a purchase for 3.5%, and some of what I sell has a range of reasonable pricing. I pick a price to start in the middle or upper half of what I think that range is, and if I want to sell the item I usually have to accept a little price negotiation with the buyer.

If that few percent bothers you then you could list the higher price and then offer a discount of 3.5% if someone pays you with a no-fee payment. That complies better with the paypal rules anyway.

But back to the question- it appears that the buyer did understand and he was just trying to play you for a small amount of money. I think all of us understand what "net" means but maybe some people don't understand. I don't think you were out of line to ask for compliance with the agreed-upon deal. Leaving feedback is up to you, I tend to be non-confrontational so I probably wouldn't.

I side with you, buyer is a jerk. I'm liking this cash discount idea next time I consider a fee service as a way to get paid. I recently had a person add funds without me asking or suggesting any "net" to me amount so that I received the full amount we had agreed on. I complimented them on their unusual character as they set a good example for us all. So if you use a fee service to purchase an item consider adding some extra just because it is a nice thing to do.

 

[wtlj]

How can "Net" be easier than one price, all in, shipped to your door? I don't understand why or how people still think of this. When YOU sell something and want to be paid by Paypal, the fees are YOURS to pay, not the buyers. It's much easier to add YOUR costs all into the price. Don't make people have to do the math to pay YOUR fees.
Here is 18 pages on a Paypal discussion:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1163713-Another-Paypal-Discussion

Exchange Rules:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=699&a=98

If you leave a negative feedback over $1.75, I'd say you surely are the crazy one. Contemplating such a thing is enough to make some people think twice about dealing with a person like that.

I've seen all kinds of crazy happen in deals since I've been a moderator here. I've gotten in the middle of even worse kinds of crazy. One thing remains constant, when a thread gets started here the best chance for success is to make sure the topic is something substantial. Getting bent about some little triviality is enough to make the thread spin around and make the OP look like the bad guy. It happens a lot more often than you can imagine.

You say it;s a moral issue, not a financial issue, so how are the morals of not using Paypal the way it was intended to be used? All those people that say "Net to me" or "please add some outrageous percentage ranging from 3%-7% to the price" are WRONG. It could be the buyer had a case of a moral dilemma too. Just my opinion, based on hundreds and hundreds of threads, transactions, and thousands of posts read over the last 6+ years.

I read this post without first reading who wrote it... When I reached the sentence "a moderator here" I scrolled up to find it was our very own RevDevil.
Before voicing my opinion I'll state that I have the utmost respect for you and all other BF moderators who typically stay level headed and unbiased when the need arrises.
However I'll respectfully say I COULD NOT disagree with you more this time around. I mean this in no disrespect at all and commend everything you do for us, having said that everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Just a few examples... I've purchased and sold well over 300 knives on BF alone. Every sales thread I state "net", in your eyes I'm "wrong"! I accept personal check, cash, money order, cashiers check, Google wallet, PayPal etc. do you know how many of those have a fee? You guessed it just 1. Why should I raise the price of an item and make the other non PayPal users pay fees? Do I need to state "take 3% off if not using PayPal"? Do I need to have 2 different sales prices?

If I was to only accept PayPal than I'd agree the fees should be worked in, BUT...that's not the case for me, the op, and many others being coved with blanket statements.

As for stating the OP is crazy for getting upset over $1.75 who are we to judge? Let's forgot about the $1.75 and say it's 3%(because it is). So if its a $1,000 purchase is he still crazy? Same percentage of HIS money no matter what the dollar amount right?

Just my opinion based on hundreds and hundreds of BF transactions. [emoji6]

OP, I couldn't agree with you more, id be upset also. I would have refunded his money and politely moved on. I'm sure some members choose not to deal with me because of my "net" statement and that's totally fine. No one is breaking any rules here, simply a conflict of opinion is all.

 

[MercyfulfateXX]

If the sale ad has a net or an add anything im out. Just factor in what you want exactly for the knife shipping,fees whatever and make that your final price. As advertised.

 

[matt009au]

Some buyers are just difficult and there is now pleasing them. Most guys are great. I don't think you are out of line at all. I would put him on ignore and move on.

I've had an instance where the buyer was whinging about me factoring the paypal fees into the price. Sent me an email with a sob story about how all these extra fees add up for him. I knew I should have just canned the sale then, however, I followed through. Then true to my gut feeling got an email a few days later when the item arrived saying how disappointed he was with the fit and finish of the knife.

matt

 

[Seminole31]

The exact same member jerked me around on a low priced item a few months ago. Same situation but with no money exchanged. Basically disrupted a sales thread, said PayPal sent, when I messaged him approximately four times to let him know I hadn't received anything he finally says "oh guess it wasn't meant to be." I'm not gonna get into the whole PayPal/net discussion but this user is doing this kind of stuff on purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[-Corey-]

Him trying to skirt the terms. Though, I'll be honest, net to me is a phrase that invariably makes me move to the next seller.

^This
Unless I come across something that's hard to find at a descent price, I just move on. Same thing when I go in a store that has a sign stating they charge X% for a credit card or give X% discount for cash. If I don't have cash on me, and don't have a bank within a block or two, I move on. I would rather pay a person $150 flat for an item than $140 + 3% + $0.30 (which would be $144.50).

All that being said, if I was in your shoes, I would have refunded his payment immediately and explained to him that it was not the agreed upon price, given him the opportunity to correct the mistake and if he didn't within a reasonable amount of time, I would've moved on.

I also don't see why negative feedback wouldn't be acceptable in this instance. The seller did agree to take the $1.75 loss based on the assumption that it was an honest mistake. When he discovered that it wasn't an honest mistake, shouldn't he be allowed to change his opinion of the transaction. Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know all the details of the itrader system yet.

 

[shinyedges]

Couldn't agree more, NET is almost always a reason I hit the back button and move on to someone else. Why people just don't have a TYD price is beyond me.

PayPal fees are indeed for the seller it says so right on the PayPal website.

How can "Net" be easier than one price, all in, shipped to your door? I don't understand why or how people still think of this. When YOU sell something and want to be paid by Paypal, the fees are YOURS to pay, not the buyers. It's much easier to add YOUR costs all into the price. Don't make people have to do the math to pay YOUR fees.
Here is 18 pages on a Paypal discussion:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1163713-Another-Paypal-Discussion

Exchange Rules:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=699&a=98

If you leave a negative feedback over $1.75, I'd say you surely are the crazy one. Contemplating such a thing is enough to make some people think twice about dealing with a person like that.

I've seen all kinds of crazy happen in deals since I've been a moderator here. I've gotten in the middle of even worse kinds of crazy. One thing remains constant, when a thread gets started here the best chance for success is to make sure the topic is something substantial. Getting bent about some little triviality is enough to make the thread spin around and make the OP look like the bad guy. It happens a lot more often than you can imagine.

You say it;s a moral issue, not a financial issue, so how are the morals of not using Paypal the way it was intended to be used? All those people that say "Net to me" or "please add some outrageous percentage ranging from 3%-7% to the price" are WRONG. It could be the buyer had a case of a moral dilemma too. Just my opinion, based on hundreds and hundreds of threads, transactions, and thousands of posts read over the last 6+ years.

 

[shinyedges]

Lets see, all inclusive TYD or NET where the buyer needs to figure out how much too add in? (Jeopardy music)

Which is simpler ... Ding ding ding TYD... Duh.

I'd also like to take this time to mention, sellers who frequently use NET also ask for GIFT as an alternative. NEVER EVER pay gift. GIFT is ALWAYS a deal breaker for me.

 

[myright]

IMO... the buyer should NEVER have to figure out how much to pay. It's the seller's responsibility to be clear on what the actual price is. I've sold more than a few things on here and just factor in the price of shipping and paypal into the price listed.

On the flip side, if i was a buyer in a "net" transaction (which i wouldn't be), I would specifically ask for the "all in" price before i sent any money at all.

It sucks to have to deal with a transaction like this, OP, i hope it all works out for the best.

 

[vmmvmmm]

Like many others, I think the "net to me" thing is frankly lazy. I stay away from those sellers and simply take the fees into consideration when I sell. Makes it a whole lot easier for both sides.

Having said that, the seller should have either agreed with your terms or walked away from the sale. It obviously doesn't accomplish anything to complain after you decided to ship without collecting it, but I understand how you would feel.

 

[benchwarmer380]

All that being said, if I was in your shoes, I would have refunded his payment immediately and explained to him that it was not the agreed upon price, given him the opportunity to correct the mistake and if he didn't within a reasonable amount of time, I would've moved on.

It was the agreed upon price. $50 sent via PayPal. The buyer may have read between the lines but still, the terms in the thread and the conversation after "I'll take it"
were extremely vague.

A "Net" price to the seller meant add the PayPal fees but shipping is included in that price. That makes no sense since "net" means the actual profits after the cost of doing business.

This is one example of why I hit the back button on most threads with Net or Gift.

Unclear terms with quick, yet unthorough communication seems to be the culprit here.

 

[-Corey-]

After reading the sales thread and some of the visitor messages, there's lots of would've, could've, should'ves that can be pointed out. But I still view the buyer as a deceptive person, not a mistaken person. I don't agree with the seller's "net to me" and I do agree that factoring "net" to only account for pp fees and not shipping is confusing, but my opinion remains the same.

 

[Gaston444]

I don't understand the OP's claim that making things more complicated makes them simpler.

This thread is the very first time I come across the notion that Paypal fees are the buyer's responsibility to figure out. The whole point of Paypal is simplicity...

Gaston

 

[TinyDog]

He is wrong IMO. But to me I believe the best way to avoid this happening and what I do today is figure out exactly what you want Price for the knife, price for fee, and shipping price. Add it all up and offer the item for $xx Shipped tyd. I believe buyers prefer this to the "net" term and other terms that we see sometimes. TD

 

[Tim the Wizard]

Writing net to me or net payment is against PayPal terms of service. Figure out the price you need to recoup fees beforehand and publish that price.

 

[Dopic1]

Him trying to skirt the terms. Though, I'll be honest, net to me is a phrase that invariably makes me move to the next seller.

Plus one on "net to me" makies me move to the next seller and it absolutely drives me nuts. List it with the fees and shipping and always require Goods & Services this way you're both covered and there is no confusion. I've had several people list an item for a set price and then after I say "I'll take it" I get an oh by the way add 3 or 4% for fees. Like IM said if that's the case I move on.

 

[pbcg]

OP. I hope you see the irony here.

You're upset that the buyer didn't honor the terms and conditions of your sales thread that he agreed to.

While the terms and conditions you set violate PP's terms of service that you agreed to.

You seem like a decent on honest guy. I hope, all issues of ethics aside, you see and agree its just easier and better for all involved to use PP as intended and in accordance with their TOS. It's simpler, easy, and the right thing to do IMO.

Going forward, good luck and all the best!

 

[brancron]

I can't think of any justification for the "net to me" thing other than as an implicit invitation for the buyer to pay via "friends and family." No respectable seller should do it.

 

[craytab]

Exactly. This is why GBU can still be better than iTrader for situations like these. You can tell a lot of people what someone is like in a couple of GBU pages of rolling condemnations.

Couldn't agree more. Very useful for just this reason..

As to your situation, I know it does not help now but after he balked about sending the rest of the payment I would have refunded him and moved on. On more than one occasion I have broken off a deal where a person tries to change the deal after they say they'll take it or start asking strange questions or make weird request. I don't need the headache that could come from a buyer who can't hand just an everyday normal transaction.

EDIT: I just went and read the conversation you guys had. The buyer was right. You should do this the right way if you want to avoid problems. Just saying NET means nothing or everything. You should list forms of payment you accept and how much they are.

Edit2: Then you say he could of waived the fees and used friends of family?


Answer to the thread title: Yes, you were out of line. Change how you doing things in the future to avoid these problem and also don't screw paypal.