Am I Out Of Line Here?

[KELAMA]

Just for a little added perspective here, please read this older thread involving a very reputable, respected member here (Choombak), & the BS drama he had to go through, just because he moved to the next buyer in his sales thread:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1318057-choombak-CHOOMBAK-(Amarendra-)-A-LOW-LIFE

If you want to see thee quintessential classic example on how to crap in another member's sales thread- this would be it (go figure- all this drama over another flashlight):

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...HO-flashlight-(1xAAA)?p=15121331#post15121331


v You aren't the only one, Seminole31.^

The exact same member jerked me around on a low priced item a few months ago. Same situation but with no money exchanged. Basically disrupted a sales thread, said PayPal sent, when I messaged him approximately four times to let him know I hadn't received anything he finally says "oh guess it wasn't meant to be." I'm not gonna get into the whole PayPal/net discussion but this user is doing this kind of stuff on purpose.

All we have is our words and our reputation. Too many good folks on here to waste my time with the bad ones.

^ This!!! :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Spartan00]

As a buyer I've rushed through and forgot to add whatever before . Never have I had a seller say something to me about it . I've always caught it and either sent it immediately after or messaged the person to let them know it was a mistake .

OP id be pissed too. Thing with me is I almost never actually take my list price for an item . I'll work with somebody and we will come to an agreement on a price regardless of how I word it in my thread ill.tell the person the exact dollar figure to send via pm. I'll usually knock some off my asking price and just wrap everything up and go from there.

To the buyer dishonesty gets you nowhere on here . All we have is our words and our reputation. As petty as 1.75 may or may not be it speaks about someone's character IMO or lack of should I say. Hell if you didn't want to pay the buck fifty tell the seller you don't want to pay the buck fifty. He will either say yeah 49 is better than nothing or hell tell you to get on . Too many good folks on here to waste my time with the bad ones .

 

[Seminole31]

Thank you for paying attention to all this Kelama. Seems like this is getting turned into the same "net/ff" bashing that comes up here every 2-3 month. While I heartily disagree with most of what is said about the NET method, I think everyone is missing the fact that RGRAY is very deliberately going out of his way to do these things. They aren't mistakes or slips. He knowingly enters these situations with the intent of ruining someone's day, for whatever reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[palonej]

"Net to seller"?????? Move on every time.
If it's something I can't live without I'll PM seller asking him to drop the fees HE should be paying.
Saw a sprint run PM2 I've been looking for for a while......$425 + 7% fees. Come on dude!!
Joe

 

[KELAMA]

Thank you for paying attention to all this Kelama. Seems like this is getting turned into the same "net/ff" bashing that comes up here every 2-3 month. While I heartily disagree with most of what is said about the NET method, I think everyone is missing the fact that RGRAY is very deliberately going out of his way to do these things. They aren't mistakes or slips. He knowingly enters these situations with the intent of ruining someone's day, for whatever reason.

^ I agree.

Although this topic has been discussed, ad nauseam; thread's like this are still great learning tools for the newer member's here.

There are thousand's of member's here on this forum, which translates to many different conditions regarding, TOS. We're all responsible adults, most of us know what we're doing here (most of us).

With that being said, if we DON"T LIKE THE TERMS/CONDITIONS, placed in a sales thread; it's very simple: just move on...

And if a member here finds a certain knife irresistible, & the seller gives you the option of payment via Gift or Goods...

only "one" of these method's offer the buyer, protection! It's a no...freaking...brainer!


EDIT:

One of the all-time classic quotes, that I've ever had the pleasure of reading in a sales thread:

"I'm not going to play games with you do I have it or not?"

^ This, would make a great sig line!

 

[shinyedges]

Hmm, what exactly do you mean net/ff bashing? Because it sounds like you support skirting PayPal fees or making the buyer figure out what he has to pay.

I sincerely hope you don't support the using of gift for transactions, you won't find that to be a popular stance here.

Hopefully I miss interpreted your post

Thank you for paying attention to all this Kelama. Seems like this is getting turned into the same "net/ff" bashing that comes up here every 2-3 month. While I heartily disagree with most of what is said about the NET method, I think everyone is missing the fact that RGRAY is very deliberately going out of his way to do these things. They aren't mistakes or slips. He knowingly enters these situations with the intent of ruining someone's day, for whatever reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[craytab]

Just for a little added perspective here, please read this older thread involving a very reputable, respected member here (Choombak), & the BS drama he had to go through, just because he moved to the next buyer in his sales thread:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1318057-choombak-CHOOMBAK-(Amarendra-)-A-LOW-LIFE

If you want to see thee quintessential classic example on how to crap in another member's sales thread- this would be it (go figure- all this drama over another flashlight):

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...HO-flashlight-(1xAAA)?p=15121331#post15121331


v You aren't the only one, Seminole31.^






^ This!!! :thumbup::thumbup:

My goodness. Well this guy is going on ignore. Talk about headache over nothing.

 

[Seminole31]

Hmm, what exactly do you mean net/ff bashing? Because it sounds like you support skirting PayPal fees or making the buyer figure out what he has to pay.

I sincerely hope you don't support the using of gift for transactions, you won't find that to be a popular stance here.

Hopefully I miss interpreted your post

Perhaps I worded that a bit too strongly but I'll go on record as saying that as an HONEST seller who has accepted Money Orders, etc vs PayPal I think NET is the easier option. I am not a businessman or dealer, just an enthusiast like the rest of you. My stance is "this is my price to sell and ship, these are the methods I accept, how would you like to pay?" If the buyer sends me a gift or a good and services payment (accounting for fees) I personally do not care. I realize that is probably an unpopular statement and one that will get me flamed as a "thief" but so be it. I don't care to use Goods, I use goods, but if the buyer chooses to remove his protection so be it. I don't ask for friends and family, and anyone that does is probably a scammer, but if my PayPal notification pops up with a name and the amount I was asking, I consider the buyers part of the transaction as complete. But again just because I would never use this as a means to scam someone, there's too much evidence here showing that some will. So I definitely support Goods and Services, but I think using the term NET has automatically come to mean "send me a GIFT so I can scam you" on this forum and that's not true. On that note, here lately I don't use net, but rather all in with fees added. So take that for what it's worth.

 

[hhmoore]

so if you use a fee service to purchase an item consider adding some extra just because it is a nice thing to do.

I've received payments as gifts, and I've received payments with extra to cover fees, without any suggestion/request on my part. Gift payments were promptly refunded, as were overpayments.
If you accept PayPal for payment, simply factor the fees into your price.

 

[STAINLESS90]

Thank you for paying attention to all this Kelama. Seems like this is getting turned into the same "net/ff" bashing that comes up here every 2-3 month. While I heartily disagree with most of what is said about the NET method, I think everyone is missing the fact that RGRAY is very deliberately going out of his way to do these things. They aren't mistakes or slips. He knowingly enters these situations with the intent of ruining someone's day, for whatever reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The simple solution is don't allow him to "get away with it" by stating the exact price and form of payment you wish to be payed in. This is not rocket surgery if a business charges a credit/debit card fee they add it for you or inform you about it before hand they don't put it on the menu at the bottom. If the buyer isn't willing to pay in that method then looks like they aren't buying from you. I actually stipulate that I only accept goods and services in my sales threads. Not everyone has to follow that but don't make the buyer do any kind of addition or subtraction to find out the price. Simply put goods= $X gift= $X then there will be no confusion. The buyer knows exactly what to send based on their own preference. Or just abide by Paypal's terms and conditions you agreed to follow to use their service?

 

[shinyedges]

I got you, I think.

Seems easy to say net for you but it isn't easier for the buyer and makes the buyer figure out fees.

I keep it simple and give one number covering fees and shipping... what is so hard about that? Is it really that much work?

Perhaps I worded that a bit too strongly but I'll go on record as saying that as an HONEST seller who has accepted Money Orders, etc vs PayPal I think NET is the easier option. I am not a businessman or dealer, just an enthusiast like the rest of you. My stance is "this is my price to sell and ship, these are the methods I accept, how would you like to pay?" If the buyer sends me a gift or a good and services payment (accounting for fees) I personally do not care. I realize that is probably an unpopular statement and one that will get me flamed as a "thief" but so be it. I don't care to use Goods, I use goods, but if the buyer chooses to remove his protection so be it. I don't ask for friends and family, and anyone that does is probably a scammer, but if my PayPal notification pops up with a name and the amount I was asking, I consider the buyers part of the transaction as complete. But again just because I would never use this as a means to scam someone, there's too much evidence here showing that some will. So I definitely support Goods and Services, but I think using the term NET has automatically come to mean "send me a GIFT so I can scam you" on this forum and that's not true. On that note, here lately I don't use net, but rather all in with fees added. So take that for what it's worth.

 

[Seminole31]

I got you, think.

Seems easy to say net for you but it isn't easier for the buyer and makes the buyer figure out fees.

I keep it simple and give one number covering fees and shipping... what is so hard about that? Is it really that much work?

Yeah that was a bit of a ramble on my end but tomato, tomatoe. Like I said I use all in now. But someone using NET shouldn't be blasted for it. It's no harder for the buyer to pop open a PP calculator and figure fees than it is for the seller. But again, I think the focus should be on a vindictive forumite who has repeatedly pulled shady actions against people using the "NET" method. Disrupting threads, aggressive posting, and then deliberately short changing the OP. Disagree with net pricing all you want, but no one should be ok with such childish action from a grown man.

 

[shinyedges]

While I don't agree with his method of dealing with sellers who use NET I don't agree with the sellers using NET so I won't lambaste the dude. I will say he could more proactively deal with net sellers perhaps by asking if they will eat the fees or starting a GB&U thread to raise awareness. For me giving up the protection and skirting PayPal just isn't worth the couple bucks.

And I see MANY sellers who give NET or gift as there options for payment which I find repulsive.

Yeah that was a bit of a ramble on my end but tomato, tomatoe. Like I said I use all in now. But someone using NET shouldn't be blasted for it. It's no harder for the buyer to pop open a PP calculator and figure fees than it is for the seller. But again, I think the focus should be on a vindictive forumite who has repeatedly pulled shady actions against people using the "NET" method. Disrupting threads, aggressive posting, and then deliberately short changing the OP. Disagree with net pricing all you want, but no one should be ok with such childish action from a grown man.

 

[gonebad395]

The best part is we all have the ignore feature to not have to deal with him

 

[HammerHill]

Interesting conversations happening in this thread. For my part, I won't be using 'net' in my future sales threads. I'm happy to work with a buyer to arrange whatever reasonable method of payment they prefer (I've accepted Google wallet payments on several occasions), but I'll be listing everything as a simple, all-inclusive, 'to your door' payment assuming PayPal.

For those who thought I was being irresponsible by offering to accept a 'friends and family' payment, please note that it was just for the $1.75 fee after the buyer had failed to include it in his original payment, not for payment of the item. I think that is an appropriate use of the f&f option to keep the buyer from having to pay a fee twice. I do not generally solicit friends & family payments.

I rarely sell something without talking to the buyer first, either to cut a deal or to answer a question or something. Good communication is key to a satisfying deal. And absent that, the terms need to be crystalline up front, so that if someone wants to just pay you without haggling or questions there's no room for confusion, or in this case, manipulation.

 

[Seminole31]

While I don't agree with his method of dealing with sellers who use NET I don't agree with the sellers using NET so I won't lambaste the dude. I will say he could more proactively deal with net sellers perhaps by asking if they will eat the fees or starting a GB&U thread to raise awareness. For me giving up the protection and skirting PayPal just isn't worth the couple bucks.

And I see MANY sellers who give NET or gift as there options for payment which I find repulsive.

And see this is where I fully disagree. He deserves to be lambasted. And repulsive? Have you looked in the exchange lately? 99% of sellers use NET or gift add for fees. I think repulsive is a bit of an overreaction. Some VERY respected sellers on here use gift or add for fees. I think this is what some don't understand. Most people here aren't dealers and don't make any money off their sales. Accepting a gift payment doesn't make you dishonest. Scamming someone over a gift payment does. Most people are like me. "Here's my price bottom line. If you want to purchase THIS is the amount I need. Get it to me using an acceptable method and the item is yours." As for the defrauding PayPal argument, PayPal fees were set up mostly as a way to collect usage fees from businesses etc. And I don't really think PayPal is going to die if they didn't receive the ops $1.75. However to him it's a big deal. He posted the exact dollar amount he wanted to receive for his item and left it up to the buyer to figure out how to get it to him. And the buyer deliberately shorted him. How is that not lambastable (if that's even a word). I'm not trying to fight w you about it, you seem all right to me, but I think repulsive is a bit over the top. If anyone acted repulsively in this situation it's the buyer.
EDIT FOR SPELLING (worked third last night)

 

[cigarrodog]

When selling or buying an item, I don't want to calculate the amount of drama that comes from potentially unclear terms. If selling, I know how much money I want to jingle in my pocket, and If buying, how much I'm willing to pay in total. Staying in the No Drama Zone, means one price shipped via Goods&Services only, clear pm or email communication, and prompt payment. In the ad, I reserve the right of whom I wish to sell to. If too many red flags appear after the "I'll take it," I'll move on. My fingers are crossed, but so far, I've avoided starring in the GBU.

 

[shinyedges]

I guess we'll just agree to disagree, I said my 2cents about interrupting sales thread which I don't approve of. That said, I also don't approve of Using NET which is why I said "I" won't lambaste the dude. I realize many people use NET but I wouldn't say 99%, For me NET in combination with GIFT are what I find as a deal breaker although NET is a usually a deal breaker on its own. Gift or NET is Absolutely a deal breaker.

I guess we'll also disagree on the seller should have an all inclusive price (although you now do this lol) Which makes transactions easier and smoother, all while giving paypal their fees...

You do seem reasonable and I don't want to argue, just a difference of opinion is all.

And see this is where I fully disagree. He deserves to be lambasted. And repulsive? Have you looked in the exchange lately? 99% of sellers use NET or gift add for fees. I think repulsive is a bit of an overreaction. Some VERY respected sellers on here use gift or add for fees. I think this is what some don't understand. Most people here aren't dealers and don't make any money off their sales. Accepting a gift payment doesn't make you dishonest. Scamming someone over a gift payment does. Most people are like me. "Here's my price bottom line. If you want to purchase THIS is the amount I need. Get it to me using an acceptable method and the item is yours." As for the defrauding PayPal argument, PayPal fees were set up mostly as a way to collect usage fees from businesses etc. And I don't really think PayPal is going to die if they didn't receive the ops $1.75. However to him it's a big deal. He posted the exact dollar amount he wanted to receive for his item and left it up to the buyer to figure out how to get it to him. And the buyer deliberately shorted him. How is that not lambastable (if that's even a word). I'm not trying to fight w you about it, you seem all right to me, but I think repulsive is a bit over the top. If anyone acted repulsively in this situation it's the buyer.
EDIT FOR SPELLING (worked third last night)

 

[Gastonknife]

How can "Net" be easier than one price, all in, shipped to your door? I don't understand why or how people still think of this. When YOU sell something and want to be paid by Paypal, the fees are YOURS to pay, not the buyers. It's much easier to add YOUR costs all into the price. Don't make people have to do the math to pay YOUR fees.
Here is 18 pages on a Paypal discussion:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1163713-Another-Paypal-Discussion



Exchange Rules:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=699&a=98

If you leave a negative feedback over $1.75, I'd say you surely are the crazy one. Contemplating such a thing is enough to make some people think twice about dealing with a person like that.

I've seen all kinds of crazy happen in deals since I've been a moderator here. I've gotten in the middle of even worse kinds of crazy. One thing remains constant, when a thread gets started here the best chance for success is to make sure the topic is something substantial. Getting bent about some little triviality is enough to make the thread spin around and make the OP look like the bad guy. It happens a lot more often than you can imagine.

You say it;s a moral issue, not a financial issue, so how are the morals of not using Paypal the way it was intended to be used? All those people that say "Net to me" or "please add some outrageous percentage ranging from 3%-7% to the price" are WRONG. It could be the buyer had a case of a moral dilemma too. Just my opinion, based on hundreds and hundreds of threads, transactions, and thousands of posts read over the last 6+ years.

This plus two....... Stop with the net bs and put the total price you want.....there is no confusion, nor violation of pp policy. In this case though, the buyer is a douche and I would add him to ignore.

 

[shinyedges]

Bingo.

This plus two....... Stop with the net bs and put the total price you want.....there is no confusion, nor violation of pp policy. In this case though, the buyer is a douche and I would add him to ignore.