Am I Out Of Line Here?

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Well it started about a guy who angrily crusades against people who sell with NET by interrupting their threads and then moved on to just not paying the fees even if they ask for it LOL Then it changed a bit to NET freaking sucks and skimps paypal their due fees as well as enables scammers to get over on people. Interesting thread evolution for sure.
gonebad395 said:
So is this discussion about pp getting ripped off or not wanting to do math?
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shinyedges said:
Well it started about a guy who angrily crusades against people who sell with NET by interrupting their threads and then moved on to just not paying the fees even if they ask for it LOL Then it changed a bit to NET freaking sucks and skimps paypal their due fees as well as enables scammers to get over on people. Interesting thread evolution for sure.
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How does net skimp PP on their fees?. They actually make more-the fee on the sale and a fee on the fee(presuming the sales price would have been the same in both cases).
Of course if F&F/gift is then used yes
 
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Whoops wording error on my part. NET doesn't skimp paypal on the fees, it makes the buyer figure out how much to send, also typically those who use NET say something along the lines of "NET or paypal GIFT" and the latter does skimp paypal as well as forfeit buyer recourse in case something goes sour.

And technically NET is against paypal TOS since sellers should pay the fee. But as discussed if the seller added the fees into an all included price then enforcement is impossible.
Peter Hartwig said:
How does net skimp PP on their fees?. They actually make more-the fee on the sale and a fee on the fee(presuming the sales price would have been the same in both cases.
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LaneMeyer said:
From all the forums and internet sales I've seen, it seems to me that asking for "net" or adding "3+% or f/f" is a more common practice than just asking for an 'all-in' price. Even on BF if you go to the sales forums it seems fairly common for members here to price their items in that way. But this kind of selling is common everywhere. If I go to the store and buy something, there are taxes added on at the register. If I buy something online, there are shipping fees and taxes added on at check-out. Hardly anything is listed as an 'all-in' price.

That being said, I certainly see the simplicity of asking for an 'all-in' price, up front, in the threads. This saves the buyer some hassle in having to calculate fees. It also potentially saves the seller some time in negotiation of said fees. But I'm not sure the practice of asking the buyer to add additional funds for fees is ever going to change. Just my $.02
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^ Unfortunately, you are stating the truth, LM.

From this day forward, when I list a sales thread, I'm going to have "TWO" sales prices listed in my thread. One price, will be exactly the way that I always list my item's: all inclusive, meaning one price to include, PayPal Goods & & USPS priority shipping. This price will be for the member's, whom I view as being ethical.

My new alternate price, will be a new "do unto others" surcharge price. All member's here, whom sell their items with a "F&F", "GIFT" "+fill in the %," & flat out state that they are imposing their fee's onto the buyer. For those of you, there will now be a new (to be determined), additional % surcharge added, for the privilege to buy from me. I'll let you know what exactly that fee will be, after I check your sale tread history here. :D

Personally, I'm getting tired of these double standard, want their cake & eat the whole freaking thing, greedy attitudes.

EDIT:
RevDevil's earlier post, had one word that resonated with me: "COMMUNITY". It's becoming very clear, who the community member's are, & who the profit at all costs, flippers are.v

RevDevil said:
It's about providing a safe venue for sales and there is a lot more leniency here than in other places that require compliance with Paypal's TOS. It's not about your several hundred spotless transactions, it's about something a bit bigger, the community.
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You get em kelama, reign in those NET users with your surcharge!
KELAMA said:
^ Unfortunately, you are stating the truth, LM.

From this day forward, when I list a sales thread, I'm going to have "TWO" sales prices listed in my thread. One sale price will be the way that I always list my item's: all inclusive, meaning one price to include, PayPal Goods & & USPS priority shipping. This price will be for the member's, whom I view as being ethical.

My new alternate price, will be a new "do unto others" surcharge price. All member's here, who sell their items with a "F&F", "NET" "+fill in the %," or flat out states that they are imposing their fee's onto the buyer. For those of you, there will now be a new additional % surcharge added, for the privilege to buy from me.

Personally, I'm getting tired of these double standard, want their cake & eat the whole freaking thing, greedy attitudes.

RevDevil's earlier post had one word that resonated with me: "COMMUNITY". It's becoming very clear, who the community member's are, & who the profit at all costs, flippers are.

No more Mr. Nice Guy for these people.
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shinyedges said:
At the register when you buy something do you whip out your calculator and add up the taxes and chip in the extra money after you figure them out? Or does the clerk tell you a TOTAL?

Or how about when you purchase something online, do you figure out anything? Or does the check out page have a TOTAL price that includes everything (taxes and shipping) and a button to confirm the order?

So exactly how much figuring out did you do in any of the examples you gave?
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Obviously there is no figuring out on my part. That's why I said I see the simplicity in listing as an 'all-in' price. My point was that listing a base price is a common practice without disclosing all the fees up front. Asking the buyer to calculate those fees as with the paypal 3% example does kind of suck. It's not necessarily going to deter me from buying, especially if the asking price is good, I'll just do the math and decide if it's worth it. It would be nice if everyone would ask an 'all-in' price, I'm just not sure it's ever gonna happen. Luckily we have calculators that make adding fast and easy.

Edit* Well there is some figuring out on my part. When I buy something online I estimate shipping fees and taxes into the final price to make sure I can afford whatever I'm looking at purchasing. Usually just some quick math in my head before I start filling out shipping and payment info.
 
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KELAMA said:
^ Unfortunately, you are stating the truth, LM.

From this day forward, when I list a sales thread, I'm going to have "TWO" sales prices listed in my thread. One sale price will be the way that I always list my item's: all inclusive, meaning one price to include, PayPal Goods & & USPS priority shipping. This price will be for the member's, whom I view as being ethical.

My new alternate price, will be a new "do unto others" surcharge price. All member's here, whom sell their items with a "F&F", "GIFT" "+fill in the %," or flat out states that they are imposing their fee's onto the buyer. For those of you, there will now be a new additional % surcharge added, for the privilege to buy from me. I'll let you know what exactly that fee will be, after I check your sale tread history here. :D

Personally, I'm getting tired of these double standard, want their cake & eat the whole freaking thing, greedy attitudes.

EDIT:
RevDevil's earlier post, had one word that resonated with me: "COMMUNITY". It's becoming very clear, who the community member's are, & who the profit at all costs, flippers are.v
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Great idea John, count me in.............. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
The only one that has shown any logical reason for not using a simple one price was wtlj where he offered legitimate alternative payments(F&F/gift is not). I used to do that(not as many alternatives by far), but in reality very few ever took me up on them. You can easily deal with those few on a private bases. I can do the math or use a PP calculator, so I don't get upset with price +% or net to me, but there really is no good reason not to keep it simple. IMO.

I didn't think of this until latter, but I purchase with USPS money orders these days, so it should be I theoretically don't have a problem with Net to me or price +%
 
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RICKSTER said:
Great idea John, count me in.............. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
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Just an FYI, Rick: my "do unto other's fee, will only be via one payment method only: PAYPAL GOODS! ;) :thumbup:

PayPal Gift, is not an option on my end- even though certain people here have no problem doing business this way. :thumbdn:
 
Is it just me...
I know, I'm a FNG...
I bought a few knives from great guys!
STDallas, CricketDave, & CMFTW.
I didn't know anything about F&F on PP.
But 3.5% seems like very cheap insurance, should things go awry.
I guess it's the buyer who decides... But wouldn't you want the piece of mind knowing that if the seller has erroneously
described the item, or the UPS guy drove over it, or if your neighbours are stealing your mail...for any reason...
Money returned!! It sounds so simple!

As a seller, perhaps I would list the item for 3.5% maybe 5% higher, and politely tell the buyer you will pay the the extra.
Or make it a condition of sale that the item will only be sold to buyers who pay the slight extra for the PP "insurance".

What about expensive items? If you can afford $1500 bucks for a knife, all the more reason to have the piece of mind, pay the 3.5 %!

I am the last guy who wants to see any more rules or regulations... But I really am disappointed when
Some of us blade lovers, knife nuts, collectors, outdoorsman, go to war over something that should not occur.
Perhaps no sales through F&F PayPal. NOT UNTIL YOURE FRIENDS OR FAMILY!!!!
If you don't know the person, you send them money, and could have insured at least your money back, for 3.5%...
You have chosen to take a risk...and you get yer cards, you takes yer chances!

Would I trust the guys I bought from? ABSOLUTELY!! Would they be offended by me not using F&F when buying from them? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!
It's not only the seller that can ruin the deal...
I live on an acreage, short driveway, easy to find. So I see some garbage in the ditch. I go pick it up...
It's a package I'd been waiting for. Some books, kinda heavy... The delivery driver threw them beside the driveway & left...
Snowplow comes, bad neighbour kid grabs it, fox carries it away...
Whatever..it's not only the seller you have to worry about...
Cover Your A$$!

Of this has been covered to death, or I have it all wrong, or I was writing in my sleep...sorry.
And today I'm not picking any sides... I just saw some names I know, people I like, tried to get the gist of the thread, and put out some food for thought...

I hope yall had a great weekend, and that your knives & gear arrive on time & in good shape!!
Thank you to the sellers I mentioned, I love the knives, and would / will do business with you anytime!!
Damn, I forgot the sheaths & other gear I bought...all trouble free thanks!!
 
KELAMA said:
^ Unfortunately, you are stating the truth, LM.

From this day forward, when I list a sales thread, I'm going to have "TWO" sales prices listed in my thread. One sale price will be the way that I always list my item's: all inclusive, meaning one price to include, PayPal Goods & & USPS priority shipping. This price will be for the member's, whom I view as being ethical.

My new alternate price, will be a new "do unto others" surcharge price. All member's here, whom sell their items with a "F&F", "GIFT" "+fill in the %," or flat out states that they are imposing their fee's onto the buyer. For those of you, there will now be a new additional % surcharge added, for the privilege to buy from me. I'll let you know what exactly that fee will be, after I check your sale tread history here. :D

Personally, I'm getting tired of these double standard, want their cake & eat the whole freaking thing, greedy attitudes.

EDIT:
RevDevil's earlier post, had one word that resonated with me: "COMMUNITY". It's becoming very clear, who the community member's are, & who the profit at all costs, flippers are.v
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Signed!!!
 
6850 said:
Is it just me...

But 3.5% seems like very cheap insurance, should things go awry.

As a seller, perhaps I would list the item for 3.5% maybe 5% higher, and politely tell the buyer you will pay the the extra.

What about expensive items? If you can afford $1500 bucks for a knife, all the more reason to have the piece of mind, pay the 3.5 %!
Of this has been covered to death, or I have it all wrong, or I was writing in my sleep...sorry.
And today I'm not picking any sides... I just saw some names I know, people I like, tried to get the gist of the thread, and put out some food for thought...
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I don't think anyone is complaining about paying the fees. Some people just want the fees listed up-front and included in the final price by the seller. As a buyer they do not want to have to calculate the 3.5 or whatever percent is being asked.
 
I don't really get where all the confusion lies... if you don't want to deal with the PayPal fees that were contractually agreed to when you signed up to the aforementioned service, then DON'T USE PAYPAL. It's that simple. Specify cash, check, M/O, Google Wallet, bitcoin, bank transfer, Domino's pizza coupons, or whatever form of currency you see fit.
 
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Whenever I see a seller saying "net to me" or "+3.5%", I simply just move along and ignore their sale thread. It's not hard, just figure out how much you want after shipping, fees, etc. and price your item accordingly. The PayPal fee is not "insurance" for the buyer, it is a fee that the seller agrees to give PayPal for the convenience of using their service.

This is no different than the fees that credit card processors charge businesses for running credit cards with similar rules stating that the business can't charge a credit card "convenience" fee. Businesses simply price this fee in to the cost of whatever is being sold and price the item accordingly. Whenever I see a business trying to charge a fee or have a sign that says you have to spend a certain amount to process a credit card, I report them to their credit card processing company.

Maybe a way to put an end to people charging fees here would be simply reporting them to PayPal with a link to their sale thread. Some goes for people asking for "friends and family" to get around the PayPal fees.
 
knife to a gunfight said:
I don't really get where all the confusion lies... if you don't want do deal with the PayPal fees that were contractually agreed to when you signed up to the aforementioned service, then DON'T USE PAYPAL. It's that simple. Specify cash, check, M/O, Google Wallet, bitcoin, bank transfer, Domino's pizza coupons, or whatever form of currency you see fit.
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.... best post in this thread thus far.
 
knife to a gunfight said:
I don't really get where all the confusion lies... if you don't want do deal with the PayPal fees that were contractually agreed to when you signed up to the aforementioned service, then DON'T USE PAYPAL. It's that simple. Specify cash, check, M/O, Google Wallet, bitcoin, bank transfer, Domino's pizza coupons, or whatever form of currency you see fit.
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There is no "like" button here but if there was I would have pushed it for this post.
 
Peter Hartwig said:
The only one that has shown any logical reason for not using a simple one price was wtlj where he offered legitimate alternative payments.
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I appreciate the comment Peter... I'm simply trying to please the community. It's hard to fairly price something "all inclusive" with multiple payment options, multiple fees, multiple shipping options etc. without upsetting someone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
knife to a gunfight said:
I don't really get where all the confusion lies... if you don't want do deal with the PayPal fees that were contractually agreed to when you signed up to the aforementioned service, then DON'T USE PAYPAL. It's that simple. Specify cash, check, M/O, Google Wallet, bitcoin, bank transfer, Domino's pizza coupons, or whatever form of currency you see fit.
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Thanks, made me laugh and is true at the same time. ;)
 
Just time to skim through this thread, not reading in detail....

PayPal or whatever, I make sure I've slipped in MY OWN terms, verbally by phone or in exchanged messages, before I 'buy.' By the time the BUY is placed, the terms have become my own and things go without a hitch. I never do a deal SOLELY constrained by the seller's terms in their attempt to write something "legal" and binding.

I use a credit card when possible, one more layer of protection for me.

OP - As to the buck-seveny-five you're owed, looks to me like you're already in a $100-huff over it.. Forget it and move on.....cost of doing biz and a cheap awakening. :)
 
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