Am I the only one who does not own a folder?

[WillB]

This is a pet peeve I have after buying a bunch of popular small fixed blades--why make a knife the size of a paring knife with blade stock thicker than a good machete? It makes no sense, why would a tiny knife ever need to be so stout in any practical use? I have a 14" Tramontina machete that is ~2mm blade stock that I've abused, chopping through limbs too that are too stout for a machete, banging it off the occasional rock, and the thing is straight unkillable. A tiny Bradford G3's blade is nearly twice as thick . . .

That Zubeng at the top is about the same size as one of the Bradford's I bought (a Guardian 3, I think) but it's much thinner behind the edge and cuts circles around the Bradford. In the photo I posted in WillB 's other thread that's up now the Dalman and the Arno Bernard are both great cutters as well. The two neckers in that photo do okay, but are a fair bit thicker behind the edge than the other three.

The EDC fixed I posted in this thread is 1/8th at the spine and much thinner behind the edge, and has been a good balance, but "thicker is better" seems a trend with many fixed knives no? What would be your optimal thickness for the small fixed blade? I can't lie and deny I gravitate toward overbuilt thicker blades even though they're more likely to split an apple then slice it pretty like

 

[WillB]

I played around with the IWB carry for a while and got frustrated. I'm looking at the new NAA Mini Revolver (either Sidewinder or Ranger II models) for pants pocket carry. Always something.... Already have several handguns that I can pocket carry, but looking for something else. My favorite gun carry approach is OWB with a shirt hanging down over it.

You had to sneak that last comment (bolded part) in at the end of your post! You're entitled to your opinion and beliefs.

As hard as it is to find the right OWB belt holster at times, the right gun/IWB holster combo is really tough to find. A single stack 9mm Shield in a JM Custom Index IWB is best I have found, and that's used when OWB with un tucked shirt etc is just not an option. As you et al don't fancy pocket carry of a fixed knife, I don't do pocket carry of handguns as mouse guns are about all that will go into the pocket.

 

[22-rimfire]

I suggested to the White River folks at this year's Blade Show that the Back Packer Pro would cut much better with a thinner blade stock. That was after I told them I loved the knife. They mentioned that it is their best seller. Anyway, they didn't like my comment about the steel stock thickness on their best selling knife. The Small Game knife (new this year) might be better for me actually. It certainly feels thinner, but I believe the specs are the same as the Back Packer Pro.

The stock thickness is why I really like the BRKT Mini Kephart that I bought a couple weeks ago at KSF. Going to play it by ear on this one. If it works great, Great; if not, it will be just another knife. The 3V Humphrey's Kephart was a poor choice on my end earlier this year. I don't think I'll ever use the knife.

Added: I guess, when you choose a knife, you really have to have a good feel as to how it is going to be used on your own terms. Will the knife be likely used for something other than cutting? That is an important distinction in terms of choice for the woods. Frankly, you don't know unless you plan on digging ginseng with it from the start. WillB seems to like a thicker blade stock which seems to be the trend. Slowly it is changing relative to what the companies are offering however.

 

[evilgreg]

I saw that picture, definitely some good looking knives there. I have a small knife that actually looks nearly identical to that Zubeng that I picked up from a maker here years ago. The leather sheathe it came with is huge though, so it would fill up my entire pocket. I own that little knife that's the second one down, and it actually brings to mind my biggest issue: fingers on grip. That is absolutely a three finger knife for me. That by itself is an absolute disconnect in design intent in my eyes. "We know you want to carry something stronger than a folding knife, but we're going to make it super small so you can't get a full, comfortable grip on it." That just has never made sense to me. In any case, that's my whole issue with this ridiculous "Folding knives versus pocket fixed blade knives." Folders are fully realized designs, whereas pocket/necker fixed blades just seem to be nothing but compromises in design in order to get the whole "fixed blade, but one you can carry in a pocket" idea to work.

Yeah, I have skinnier fingers than you do but the Grimalkin and Le Bowie necker are both more like three and a half finger grip knives than quite a full grip, and the Meerkat is more like a three finger grip. I can get most of all four fingers on both the Zubeng and the Dalman (the two that look like tiny kitchen knives).

The Zubeng came with a really small and quite nice leather minimalist leather pocket sheath. I carry the other four in the very small kydex pocket sheaths that the Le Bowie and Dalman came with (the Grimalkin fits in the Le Bowie sheath and the Meerkat fits in the Dalman sheath).

 

[blanex1]

I think one gets to a sear-ten age that carrying a fixed blade strapped to your side really makes no cents!unless your hunting/skinning these days or out in the wild, now these days I carry one good folder always in my pocket as I find it always useful, at one time I collected a bunch of folders witch really sat in my desk most of the time ,but because I am a old fart' I just stoped collecting ,own just one grate folder.

 

[evilgreg]

The EDC fixed I posted in this thread is 1/8th at the spine and much thinner behind the edge, and has been a good balance, but "thicker is better" seems a trend with many fixed knives no? What would be your optimal thickness for the small fixed blade? I can't lie and deny I gravitate toward overbuilt thicker blades even though they're more likely to split an apple then slice it pretty like

About 50% thinner than that at least. I mean, 2mm is plenty for me. That Zubeng I posted is 2mm thick at the spine and too thin behind the edge to be measured on by my digital calipers, and I've never felt like it was too thin in use.

I have tried to stab through a car door or pry anything with it, though, my uses have been more focused on cutting things.

 

[WillB]

I suggested to the White River folks at this year's Blade Show that the Back Packer Pro would cut much better with a thinner blade stock. That was after I told them I loved the knife. They mentioned that it is their best seller. Anyway, they didn't like my comment about the steel stock thickness on their best selling knife. The Small Game knife (new this year) might be better for me actually. It certainly feels thinner, but I believe the specs are the same as the Back Packer Pro.

The stock thickness is why I really like the BRKT Mini Kephart that I bought a couple weeks ago at KSF. Going to play it by ear on this one. If it works great, Great; if not, it will be just another knife. The 3V Humphrey's Kephart was a poor choice on my end earlier this year. I don't think I'll ever use the knife.

I really like the look and design of that knife and honestly can't imagine how at .130" thickness it's too thick to be an excellent cutting blade. I also have no doubts you own far more knives then I do and have far more cutting/usage experiences then I do.

 

[22-rimfire]

As hard as it is to find the right OWB belt holster at times, the right gun/IWB holster combo is really tough to find. A single stack 9mm Shield in a JM Custom Index IWB is best I have found, and that's used when OWB with un tucked shirt etc is just not an option. As you et al don't fancy pocket carry of a fixed knife, I don't do pocket carry of handguns as mouse guns are about all that will go into the pocket.

Like knives you really have to think about what you hope to accomplish with a carry gun. It goes beyond self defense as you have to carry the damn thing to use it. Pocket brick comes to mind.... To me, I would rather have a mouse gun than no gun at all. I often don't carry simply because it is not convenient. This relates to the fixed blade thing in the pocket too.... It has to be convenient in terms of carry and the best I have found have been Bob Dozier's kydex cross draw sheaths that you can slip onto your belt without removing or loosening the belt to put it on.

 

[evilgreg]

I don't do pocket carry of handguns as mouse guns are about all that will go into the pocket.

When pocket carry is the only sensible option I carry a craptistical little 9mm that is easily pocket-friendly. It's unpleasant to shoot, relatively speaking, but I have going on two thousand rounds through it without a problem. It's about the same size as an LCP and is only ~16oz fully loaded (6+1):

In a kydex pocket sheath it carries surprisingly well in the pocket. My order of preference is PPQ > PPS M2 > pocket carry, but sometimes pocket carry is the only practical option and when I pocket carry, my "mouse gun" is a 9mm.

 

[Quiet]

I suggested to the White River folks at this year's Blade Show that the Back Packer Pro would cut much better with a thinner blade stock. That was after I told them I loved the knife. They mentioned that it is their best seller. Anyway, they didn't like my comment about the steel stock thickness on their best selling knife. The Small Game knife (new this year) might be better for me actually. It certainly feels thinner, but I believe the specs are the same as the Back Packer Pro.

The stock thickness is why I really like the BRKT Mini Kephart that I bought a couple weeks ago at KSF. Going to play it by ear on this one. If it works great, Great; if not, it will be just another knife. The 3V Humphrey's Kephart was a poor choice on my end earlier this year. I don't think I'll ever use the knife.

Added: I guess, when you choose a knife, you really have to have a good feel as to how it is going to be used on your own terms. Will the knife be likely used for something other than cutting? That is an important distinction in terms of choice for the woods. Frankly, you don't know unless you plan on digging ginseng with it from the start. WillB seems to like a thicker blade stock which seems to be the trend. Slowly it is changing relative to what the companies are offering however.

That doesn't surprise me. You and I seem to have very similar experiences. Many of the smaller "EDC fixed blades" out there all seem to maintain blade thicknesses more along the lines of what you'd see from a larger 4-5 inch bladed fixed blade that's more ready for field use than any sort of EDC role. Will a thicker blade with a saber grind, or some standard V grind work to cut sandwiches and snip threads? Sure. However, what if you need to tease a splinter out of a finger, or nip off a hangnail, or, or, etc. ? That's where a thinner bladed folding knife really comes into play, I feel.

 

[22-rimfire]

I really like the look and design of that knife and honestly can't imagine how at .130" thickness it's too thick to be an excellent cutting blade. I also have no doubts you own far more knives then I do and have far more cutting/usage experiences then I do.

I still like the knife. I just know it might be a better cutter with a thinner blade stock. It really feels pretty stout in the hand and I wouldn't be afraid to baton with it to split kindling. It is a 3 finger knife with the 4th finger going into the choil.

I guess pleasing me may not be possible.... strong knife that cuts like a slip joint.... may not be possible or sell well.

 

[WillB]

Like knives you really have to think about what you hope to accomplish with a carry gun. It goes beyond self defense as you have to carry the damn thing to use it. Pocket brick comes to mind.... To me, I would rather have a mouse gun than no gun at all. I often don't carry simply because it is not convenient. This relates to the fixed blade thing in the pocket too.... It has to be convenient in terms of carry and the best I have found have been Bob Dozier's kydex cross draw sheaths that you can slip onto your belt without removing or loosening the belt to put it on.

I come from the school that says "it's not supposed to be comfortable but comforting." Other than non permissible environments, I find a way and CCWd a government 1911 for a decade + before transitioning to double stack plastic wonder pistols once something other than a Glock finally existed that I liked. To be sure, the .22 you have on you always better then the 44 mag you left at home, and a balance to be struck somewhere between them which, like knives, no one pistol or method of carry can cover it all. I don't find a properly sized/designed fixed blade inconvenient and consider the value and capabilities worth it compared to folders.

 

[WillB]

When pocket carry is the only sensible option I carry a craptistical little 9mm that is easily pocket-friendly. It's unpleasant to shoot, relatively speaking, but I have going on two thousand rounds through it without a problem. It's about the same size as an LCP and is only ~16oz fully loaded (6+1):

In a kydex pocket sheath it carries surprisingly well in the pocket. My order of preference is PPQ > PPS M2 > pocket carry, but sometimes pocket carry is the only practical option and when I pocket carry, my "mouse gun" is a 9mm.

So you'll drop a pistol in your pocket but find a small fixed blade a no go?! I never pocket carry a pistol myself. The PPQ seems loved by all. Smallest I have is the S&W Shield in 9mm and while a sub compact, not a pocket pistol. Amazing how small and now reliable they can make a 9mm the size of what would have been a .32 back in the day which was only slightly better than throwing rocks and had a 50/50 if it would go bang at all.

 

[Danke42]

I come from the school that says when you're in a hole quit diggin'.

 

[22-rimfire]

So you'll drop a pistol in your pocket but find a small fixed blade a no go?! I never pocket carry a pistol myself. The PPQ seems loved by all. Smallest I have is the S&W Shield in 9mm and while a sub compact, not a pocket pistol. Amazing how small and now reliable they can make a 9mm the size of what would have been a .32 back in the day which was only slightly better than throwing rocks and had a 50/50 if it would go bang at all.

That be true on the small fixed blade versus a small pocket handgun. The handgun has a bit more reach than the small fixed blade. They have come a long way on reliability. On the "throwing rocks" comment, I don't really want to be hit by a mouse gun or even someone throwing rocks. It just depends on what you're trying to accomplish with choices. Goes with both knives and guns.

I need to dig through my small knives. i know I have at least one custom/handmade that is essentially like GEC's hunting oriented fixed blades. Been a while since I dug in my "stuff" that I forget about things I already own. I know I have purchased books twice by mistake.... the Kindle stops that.... you get the message "You already own this." from Big River when making a purchase.

1/8" stock steel is about the thickest I will buy any more unless the knife is a chopper.

 

[Murphjd25]

WillB The good news is that there's a knife that I think would be right up your alley. It's available over on CountyComm's website. Search out the EOD Robotics breacher bar. That'll definitely deliver what you're looking for: not great at cutting, but ultimate prying strength. I know, I know, you'll have to get a sheath made, but other than that, it's perfect.

That is an excellent suggestion! Nothing but the best!

 

[WillB]

That be true on the small fixed blade versus a small pocket handgun. The handgun has a bit more reach than the small fixed blade. They have come a long way on reliability. On the "throwing rocks" comment, I don't really want to be hit by a mouse gun or even someone throwing rocks. It just depends on what you're trying to accomplish with choices. Goes with both knives and guns.

Ditto, but as a student of terminal ballistics and knowing that all handgun rnds in typical duty loads are poor man stoppers, I will tend to make sure I CCW what meets those terminal ballistics standards and will avoid what does not if I can. If I have no choice, for sure, anything = better then nothing. That your "mouse" gun is 9mm, you're GTG in that respect. It also appears some of the newer .380 rnds developed are getting very good and I try and keep an eye on that development.

 

[Quiet]

So you'll drop a pistol in your pocket but find a small fixed blade a no go?! I never pocket carry a pistol myself. The PPQ seems loved by all. Smallest I have is the S&W Shield in 9mm and while a sub compact, not a pocket pistol. Amazing how small and now reliable they can make a 9mm the size of what would have been a .32 back in the day which was only slightly better than throwing rocks and had a 50/50 if it would go bang at all.

To be fair, you're comparing apples and oranges. Many people go their entire lives conceal carrying and never needing to use it, which means the only time those folks take out a pocket gun, is when it goes back in the safe or nightstand at the end of the day. Those same people however, might have any number of uses for a knife during the day. That of course takes us right back to the poor logic of stating unequivocally that pocket fixed blades are better than folding knives, which is absolutely not the case.

 

[evilgreg]

So you'll drop a pistol in your pocket but find a small fixed blade a no go?! I never pocket carry a pistol myself. The PPQ seems loved by all. Smallest I have is the S&W Shield in 9mm and while a sub compact, not a pocket pistol. Amazing how small and now reliable they can make a 9mm the size of what would have been a .32 back in the day which was only slightly better than throwing rocks and had a 50/50 if it would go bang at all.

Check your other thread, as I think I mentioned I've pocket carried every knife in that photo. I'm just not willing to agree with you about the superiority of fixed blades over folding knives as far as concealment and ease of carry goes. Also, when I pocket carry a firearm I usually carry a very thin & light folder in my left front pocket (as nothing but the gun and pocket holster go into the right pocket).

I'd read a lot of hate for the admittedly craptastical little DB9, and I put a lot of ammo through it before I came to trust it. Years later and without a single malfunction I didn't intentionally cause, I may not love the thing but I do trust it. It goes bang and I hit what I'm aiming at, so I'm willing to overlook that it's ugly, rattles a bit, and doesn't exactly reek of quality. I wouldn't run +p ammo through it, but the manufacturer explicitly tells you not to do this, so I have little sympathy for the knuckleheads who do and blow out barrels. The thing is engineered to be light, tiny and cheap--I know what I'm getting with it.

Also, I don't pocket carry because it's comfortable, I pocket carry because sometimes it's the only option that is practical. Professionally I travel to customer locations frequently, many of which are marked gun free zones. My preferred little single stack nine (I have most of the popular ones, my favorite is the PPS M2) carries great in a variety of holster options, IWB or otherwise, but I wear a dress shirt so carrying IWB tucked doesn't work out well when I'd have to toss my gun in my car and then get myself back together and then reverse the process a couple of hours later every time I hit a gfz. With pocket carry I toss my gun in the console when I go in, then toss it back in my pocket when I come out, no fuss no muss and IMO seven rounds of decent performing 9mm hollow point ammo on tap ain't exactly throwing rocks in the unlikely occasion that I'd ever turn out to need it.

 

[WillB]

To be fair, you're comparing apples and oranges. Many people go their entire lives conceal carrying and never needing to use it, which means the only time those folks take out a pocket gun, is when it goes back in the safe or nightstand at the end of the day. Those same people however, might have any number of uses for a knife during the day. That of course takes us right back to the poor logic of stating unequivocally that pocket fixed blades are better than folding knives, which is absolutely not the case.

And again, just making chit up as you go along. I never claimed any such a thing. I did say that I feel the benefits of fixed EDC knives outweigh their negatives compared to folders in most respects, which I think are generally overrated. You seem smart enough and or knowledgeable enough to actually know what I'm saying, so again, trolling appears the only motivation for your comments.