Ancient Aliens Anyone?

[Yvsa]

Yvsa, I keep an eye on the skies, but you're two up on me.

Hope we don't get eaten and our heavy metals stolen- which would doom any human survivors to never evolve star travel of our own.

Mike

Keep looking Mike, keep looking!:thumbup: And I'm with you on the being eaten or having our heavy metals, or anything else, stolen.
On the being eaten though, reminds me of the old Rod Serling, "Twilight Zone" series when the aliens showed up and gave us everything we wanted with no strings attached, or so we thought. The aliens had this mysterious book on, "How to Serve Mankind," turned out to be a cookbook.

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[Yvsa]

Well, we do know from the DNA record that at some point in the past something happened to bottle neck the human races genetic diversity to what it is today. It is very possible that a civilization before the cataclysm was more advanced than we are now and that they are indeed set up in various bases around the world, probably under water to depths we could not even go to. Navy ship sonar has detected super sonic metalic "USO" crafts at great depths in the ocean for some time according to some of these shows mentioned and others. I don't doubt for a moment that we all suffer from that mass amnesia I mentioned earlier. Thats why we can't recall farther back than a few thousand years. I have a feeling that somewhere someone knows the truth though. I'd like to hear about that truth before I leave this planet.

STR

STR I'm not at all familiar with anything that's said anything about a cataclysmic event that caused a bottle necking of our DNA to what it is today..... I could Google it I suppose but do you have any ready references or links available, they'd be much appreciated.:thumbup:

However in my meanderings around and everything I've read I've seen where it's been said the U.S. Navy has tracked very large USO's at great depths and unbelievable speeds!
I'm not sure if MUFON buys into whether a USO and UFO is one and the same or not but I'm fairly sure they do seeing as how there has been so many reports of USO's instantly becoming UFO's.

 

[warty]

I have no quarrel with anyone who is not a Christian. As I have said over and over, that is between you and God. Whether or not you belive in Him. I am not your Judge and I don't even WANT to be your Judge.

I have enjoyed Wolf's posts too, and I certainly have no issues with you Yvsa. In fact I haven't met anyone involved with this area of Bladeforums that I take issue with yet. To be frank though, I don't spend time anywhere else so I suppose I don't know any other area of Bladeforums.

I was not calling him out, rather I was attempting to get open, honest, civil, friendly discourse going. I really do have an open mind and I don't think that being a Christian precludes Open Mindedness, I just attempted to point out that the general perception is that they are mutually exclusive. In fact, despite the open minds here, since my declaration of Christianity, I have not had a single comment I have made recognized by the folks in the thread. It is sort of odd that the guy who has the closed mind supposedly is being shunned by all of the wonderful open minds here.

So, like Wolf, though I do confess I will read the thread still, I don't see any point in continuing to try and contribute since it is clear I have nothing TO contribute.

Rock on and keep looking up! :thumbup:

Wolf everyone and anyone here who has lurked for any length of time in the archives especially knows that I'm not a Christian and that I follow the ndn ways of the Sweatlodge and Prayer and no one, that I can recall anyway, has ever given me any grief over it and I'm really sorry that you had to experience such a thing no matter which forum it was in. And as far as being popular you've always been A-OK in my book and I always look forward to reading your posts. :thumbup:

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[Wolf_1989]

Wolf everyone and anyone here who has lurked for any length of time in the archives especially knows that I'm not a Christian and that I follow the ndn ways of the Sweatlodge and Prayer and no one, that I can recall anyway, has ever given me any grief over it and I'm really sorry that you had to experience such a thing no matter which forum it was in. And as far as being popular you've always been A-OK in my book and I always look forward to reading your posts. :thumbup:

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Yeah Yvsa I know, and it doesn't bother me as much now as it did then, but it still bothers me; to the point where even now a few years later I will type out a post and then delete because I just have a feeling it would be blown out of context by someone and another nasty crapfest would start. I hate drama. Especially unnecessary drama.

Back when the original incident occurred, I had only been a member here a very brief time and came to love posting here. I was considering the Cantina and HI forum to be my new internet home. It was great to find others who love khukris as much as I do. But then, in only a few posts, things changed.

I haven't really felt particularly liked or wanted here since.

I linger on primarily for the khukris.

But since we're on the subject, I'll try to answer Warty's question as simply as I can.

Warty:

There are many of us non-christians who have had a lot of not-so-great experiences with the more ... zealous... christians. Because of this we tend to be a bit guarded when we first encounter christians, especially when the topic is somewhat controversial. Take for example this current topic: extraterrestrials. There are christians who believe aliens are actually demons and for someone such as I to state I believe aliens do exist, it invites accusations of demon worship and other nonsense. There are other christians though who are sane rational people and can discuss the subject without having to get nasty.

I know this for a fact because my best friend is a devout Catholic and we've known each other since 1978. My wife comes from a Baptist background and she's a sweetie (a few members of her family want to burn me at the stake though).

I'm not necessarily going to dismiss someone for being a christian as soon as I find out their beliefs. But I have to admit to being a bit guarded until I can tell more about them.

I hope no one takes offense to any of this as it was not at all my intention to offend anyone.

 

[Yvsa]

Maybe not flying saucers, but maybe hot-air balloons! Maybe pure, human ingenuity, maybe inspiration from above, but certainly fascinating to think about!

What's THIS story mean to me?: anything is possible........

Nicholas I remember reading something about this a long time back or seeing a documentary or something. What I remember went into a much greater detail about how the proper cloth was determined and then how it was sewn together. And if that wasn't enough to blow your mind how the cloth was sealed so that it would hold the hot air without catching the cloth on fire was simply ingenuous!:thumbup: It's been so long ago I don't recall all the details but a hole was dug for the fire proper along with a trench to transfer the soot heavy laden smoke into the mouth of the balloon. When they got a good fire going they would load it down with reeds from the lake IIRC which would produce the smoke needed. :thumbup:
I sure don't recall the balloon flying so roughly to knock the crewmen out of it but as I said, "It's been a long time ago." But from what I remember they actually had a very successful flight.
Nevertheless it was still an impressive article and the thoughts of the native folks of the time building something so technologically advanced is still enough to blow my mind!:thumbup:

 

[Yvsa]

I guess my question about the Egyption Drawing of the person wearing the space suit while essentially piloting what appears to be a rocket has been dismissed? I am still amazed that something like this was drawn by ancient man and it is this type of occurnce that seems to give credence to the ancient ET visitors for me at least as it seems harder for me to belive these sprts pf things could be imagined by early man.

Warty methinks you might be a bit confused between Egyptians and the Mayans or Aztecs and a certain drawing but maybe not. I'm not familiar with anything Egyptian dealing with this subject but there is a Central or South American tie. I think it was Von Daniken that surmised that a carving on the stone lid of a South American sarcophagus showed such a figure.

Again I'm not so sure about Egypt, although I wouldn't be surprised, having any depictions of beings in space suits as they show up all over our world. And generally these depictions are only of space suited individuals, not space suited individuals in rocket ships.

Another interesting aspect on the topic subject I've recently seen reference too is the Dogon Tribe in Africa, pronounced - dough-gone.....
http://www.unmuseum.org/siriusb.htm

Here's an excerpt from the website.....
"In Mali, West Africa, lives a tribe of people called the Dogon. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. According to their traditions, the star Sirius has a companion star which is invisible to the human eye. This companion star has a 50 year elliptical orbit around the visible Sirius and is extremely heavy. It also rotates on its axis.

This legend might be of little interest to anybody but the two French anthropologists, Marcel Griaule and Germain Dieterlen, who recorded it from four Dogon priests in the 1930's. Of little interest except that it is exactly true. How did a people who lacked any kind of astronomical devices know so much about an invisible star? The star, which scientists call Sirius B, wasn't even photographed until it was done by a large telescope in 1970"
Another Dogon link..... http://www.crystalinks.com/dogon.html .....


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[warty]

Indeed, I remember reading about the Dogone as well. As for demons, while I believe they do exist, I don't necessarily think that aliens are demons. As for confused between Aztecs, Mayans or Egytians, finally someone actually reads the post and feels like talking about what I had to say. It is entirely likely that I did in fact make a mistake, I am merely human.

I think had my post been actually read this would have been clear as crystal, but as I say, because I declared my faith I was immediately dismissed. While I do understand what Wolf has said, I cannot accept what he says as a good reason for this sort of behaviour. Remember folks, this is supposed to be an "Open Minded" group and until a person actually shows they do not have the credentials for the discussion, their words should not be dismissed simply because you do not agree with their religion. I would note I joined the conversation freely and did not do so in a way that was out of line. I merely stated what I thought, as all of you were doing. The only difference was what I thought. So yes Wolf, I know what you are saying and in fact I know what you are saying as I am not particularly fond of all Christians myself, just as you all are not particularly fond of all people who may well hold the exact same beliefs as you do. People remains people and actually, a true Christian knows and feels this and knows he/she is no better nor worse than the next person since this is made painfully clear by God Himself in the Book.

So, while I have always thought highly of Yvsa and what I said previously should have excused him from this, and while I have already forgiven the group for this sort of behaviour, heck I actually knew it would happen, I cannot excuse it. Maybe one day when people can all realize that not all of a group are like the part of the group you don't like so perhaps each person should be judged individually before being dismissed, the people like myself and Wolf will not feel the way we do, marginal because we simply don't agree with your particular world view. Therefore, I do invite you all to carry on as I am and have been for some time, quite interested in this subject. You might notice how long I waited to jump in but the post immediately before my first one cried out to be addressed, I believe it best for all that I sit this one out so the more learned and open minds here discuss this subject.
Enjoy yourselves. :thumbup:

Edit: Yvsa: You are correct, it is a Mayan Carving I was thinking of in the tomb of Pakal in Palenque, which I have actually seen myself when I visited those ruinas a while back in my college days. which can be seen here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Ah_Mun.jpg

 

[DannyinJapan]

UFO's have changed over the years, FWIW. In the 1990s-present, the "black triangles" have been seen. Slow-moving, dim lights ... and fairly brazen. 1950s-era metallic discs are much more rarely seen- just as 1950's-era cars aren't sighted much.

I don't know how you came to this conclusion, AA. The numbers are steady.
Saucers are still the #1 sighting at about 70%, followed by cigar shapes and points of light. (This is frequency of sighting types worldwide.)

Other types may get more press because of their novelty, but the overall numbers have not changed. (MUFON and NICAP figures are the same)

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I love this kind of stuff. Unless aliens are out there rubbing their palms feverishly, thinking about eating us, or stealing our resources, why worry one way or the other? It's fun to think about though.

 

[not2sharp]

I don't know how you came to this conclusion, AA. The numbers are steady.
Saucers are still the #1 sighting at about 70%, followed by cigar shapes and points of light. (This is frequency of sighting types worldwide.)

Other types may get more press because of their novelty, but the overall numbers have not changed. (MUFON and NICAP figures are the same)

There are alot of things buzzing around our skies at night. Most people never bother to look up, so they never get to see them. Last year I was out with one of my widefield refractors (low power - wide angle) taking in a view of Orion when something flew by my point of view. I pulled the cluch and followed it with my scope. It was fast moving and looked like a vertical cylinder with a number of cylindrical pods, it had no visible lights, did not make a sound, and there were landing legs on several sides. It was invisible to the naked eye, but I could see it clearly in the amplified image provided by my scope. The size was indeterminable since the distance was unknown and there was nothing that could be used for comparison. But, I knew from looking at toy and weather ballloons that sometimes flew by, that this thing must have been several thousand feet up at a minimum. Then there was a second, identical thing, that followed a few moments behind, along the same path.

UFO?!?

Well, certainly it was, since I didn't know what it could be.

But, the next day I was able to identify it as these guys.

Link:
http://www.justnews.com/news/14708354/detail.html

Video Link:
http://www.honeywell.com/sites/portal?smap=aerospace&page=mav_video&theme=T8

From my perspective, it could have been a mile across; there was no way to tell from the dark silhouette.

However, although it is important to keep an open mind, we should appreciate how unlikely alien UFOs really are. We must try to eliminate all other Earthly possibilities, no matter how weird, before we allow ourselves to indulge in our desire to be there to witness such a momentous event.

n2s

 

[DannyinJapan]

However, although it is important to keep an open mind, we should appreciate how unlikely alien UFOs really are. We must try to eliminate all other Earthly possibilities, no matter how weird, before we allow ourselves to indulge in our desire to be there to witness such a momentous event. n2s

Of course all the explanations have to be exhausted. Nobody hates hoaxes or misidentified objects more than myself. The MUFON manual is exhaustive when it comes to checking on possible explanations for objects.
I, myself, have seen lots of things in the sky but I do not believe I have ever seen a UFO in person. And yet, the sheer number of unimpeachable, experienced, educated, trusted, professional witnesses (NASA scientists, astronauts, commercial jet pilots, nuclear bomber pilots, presidents, The Mexican Air Force, The Belgian Air Force, etc....) who say "YES" gives me no doubt.

So likely or unlikely mean nothing to me. It's done. It's a done deal.
If you mean "Am I seeing an alien ship?" in terms of likely or unlikely - the number is about 10% that you are.
Of course, if it exhibits the key behaviors like stopping and starting from 3,000+ mph, 90 degree angle turns, etc.. then it is not Earth technology.
We might have built it and driven it, but it isn't ours.
(That comes from a NASA person in the early 90's)

 

[Ad Astra]

hm, the numbers aren't fresh in my mind, but I thought the creepy black triangles were on the upswing, sighting-numbers-wise. If I had my choice to see, I'd pick the silent, magnetic-field-drive, g-force unaffected, zero-to-6,000 mph accelerating, silent/humming metallic daylight disc.

n2s, never *yet* seen anything odd in a telescope, but with a night vision (NV) scope/system, if you're an astronomer, MANY faint things become readily visible. Faint deep-sky objects, which are washed out by light pollution, are seen in city skies with a night vision scope.

I strongly endorse NV for serious amateur astronomers- and anyone keeping an eye on the skies.

DIJ, yes, be sure of what you see; might be explainable. With me I *actually* DID see a weather balloon, burning space junk and a meteorite- dammit.


Mike

 

[Nicholas]

Where in bloody blue balzes is my post? i responded to Yvsa over an hour ago, and nothing that I worte is anywhere in sight! Now I have to write it all over again.AAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Nicholas I remember reading something about this a long time back or seeing a documentary or something. What I remember went into a much greater detail about how the proper cloth was determined and then how it was sewn together.

Specifically, I remember reading that this ancient cloth was woven more tightly than modern-day parachute fabric. I think that's where the idea started......

I sure don't recall the balloon flying so roughly to knock the crewmen out of it but as I said, "It's been a long time ago." But from what I remember they actually had a very successful flight.

Here's what I found out, when I looked it up, about a year ago: the balloon sure flew, but they had the darnedest time trying to control it! It took off like a rocket, then came back down to the ground, bouncing the crew out of the basket in the process. Then it soared back up again, heading north at about 25 mph, and settle in the middle of one of the drawings, about 20 minutes later. I don't recall what altitude it achieved, but it did fly. Just not very smoothly.
Getting off the subject a bit, this story is somewhat similar to what happened when (as covered in the PBS special, "Leonardo's Dream Machines") a team of scientists, and one professional hang-glider, set out to recreate a well-documented hang glider design of old Leo's. Like the Nazca balloon, it flew, but had serious steering problems; specifically, it was prone to stalling. Best results were achieved by towing it like a kite, down a steep hill. Done THAT way, it eventually achieved a distance exceeding the Wright Brothers' first flight! But until then, it was one nosedive after another.
The point being, I think, that getting up in the air is relatively easy, but that control is a common problem in primitive flight.

Nevertheless it was still an impressive article and the thoughts of the native folks of the time building something so technologically advanced is still enough to blow my mind!:thumbup:

My sentiments, exactly.

 

[DannyinJapan]

Unless someone has been able to prove that STS-29 was a faked transmission, NASA has unwittingly, publicly, confirmed things. You can hear Discovery say "alien spacecraft" and you can see a large whitish disk on the feed in mission control. It came very close to the shuttle.

 

[STR]

STR I'm not at all familiar with anything that's said anything about a cataclysmic event that caused a bottle necking of our DNA to what it is today..... I could Google it I suppose but do you have any ready references or links available, they'd be much appreciated.:thumbup:

However in my meanderings around and everything I've read I've seen where it's been said the U.S. Navy has tracked very large USO's at great depths and unbelievable speeds!
I'm not sure if MUFON buys into whether a USO and UFO is one and the same or not but I'm fairly sure they do seeing as how there has been so many reports of USO's instantly becoming UFO's.

Yes in DNA studies not too long ago it was theorized that some 70,000 years ago plus or minus that human population was reduced to some 15,000 individuals. The theory proposes that it occurred likely because of the Toba super volcano eruption.

The theory is debated and some don't buy it. It is believed by some that the bottleneck is a long bottleneck occurring where at times populations were dropped to as low as 2000 individuals in the stone age and for approximately 100,000 years before building up again while others don't buy the theory at all. As I recall from the latest research those that don't buy it don't know much about DNA sciences but the experts in the field seem to be pretty sure of what the DNA is telling them. It seems the geologic records including ice core samples agree with the DNA studies along with records of sudden climate change which can be attributed to the super volcano eruption throwing the earth into an another ice age limiting food, killing off a wide range of plants and of course humans.

You might find mention of this theory by looking up something such as Toba Catastrophe Theory as well as Molecular Biology DNA Bottleneck Theory if you wish to find more on the official theory. As I said its a relatively hot issue for some and is debated. Currently some additional studies are being done on other animals to see if the same can be found among them for some limiting of genetic diversity there like has been seen in humans. It is interesting to note that some races have greater diversity than others and while I don't know enough about it to debate it I do recall that all humans apparently can trace to one female from Africa if memory serves me correctly. Speaking of Africa it is apparently theorized as well that two events occurred in time to bottleneck human DNA one having to do with Africa and the other the Americas tracing to the Finns, and Basques peoples as well as a few others of the European Nordic tribes. I do not know the outcome of these studies or the ones regarding further look see into animals.

For what its worth, there was just something on the tube (the Learning Channel or Discovery not sure) about this theory just recently. I've seen it brought up a time or two on the National Geo. channel when they discuss the super volcanoes and on shows about Mega Disasters also.

EDIT: I did find this link but forgive me as I did not spend much time looking. http://anthropology.net/2009/10/08/...man-genetic-diversity-proc-r-soc-b-firstcite/

STR

 

[DannyinJapan]

The problem with the DNA study is that it doesn't match the archaeological record. 70,000 years ago there were at least 3 species of hominids on Earth.
I think one of the studies suggested that all HS sapiens had a common ancestor around 100,000 years ago, but by that time, HSS was already in Europe, the Middle East and Africa.
I think the mitochondrial timeline is off quite a bit.

 

[STR]

The problem with the DNA study is that it doesn't match the archaeological record. 70,000 years ago there were at least 3 species of hominids on Earth.
I think one of the studies suggested that all HS sapiens had a common ancestor around 100,000 years ago, but by that time, HSS was already in Europe, the Middle East and Africa.
I think the mitochondrial timeline is off quite a bit.

Some think that as I said. Like I said its debated. The time line is right on according to some and in line with the Toba super eruption, and off according to others. The number of species does not really speak to the diversity of the species itself Danny, as there could be three species of hominids or twenty five of them and all three or all twenty five could be bottlenecked from the same event as easily as one of them could be. In other words there could be twenty species of hominids but if there were only 2000 individuals or less left in each one that could explain why some of those species are no longer with us while yet another that possibly had more individuals to carry on survived.

STR

 

[Moff8]

I always thought of these other hominids as the basis of our Trolls and Giants, elves and gremlins. There was a war of attrition - we won, just - but the legends live on.

 

[STR]

Well, the theory says that whether its trolls, big foots, elves, gremlins or whatever you can have a small number for total population and still survive and adapt so long as their is enough genetic diversity within the species. From one of the sites on gene studies: "Genetic diversity plays a very important role in survival and adaptability of a species because when a species’s environment changes, slight gene variations are necessary to produce changes in the organisms' anatomy that enables it to adapt and survive. A species that has a large degree of genetic diversity among its population will have more variations from which to choose the most fit alleles. Increase in genetic diversity is also essential for an organism to evolve. Species that have very little genetic variation are at a great risk. With very little gene variation within the species, healthy reproduction becomes increasingly difficult, and offspring often deal with similar problems to those of inbreeding.[4] The vulnerability of a population to certain types of diseases can also increase with reduction in genetic diversity."

STR

 

[not2sharp]

n2s, never *yet* seen anything odd in a telescope, but with a night vision (NV) scope/system, if you're an astronomer, MANY faint things become readily visible. Faint deep-sky objects, which are washed out by light pollution, are seen in city skies with a night vision scope.

Mike

The primary purpose of all astronomical instruments is to enhance the visibility of very distant and faint objects. You do this by either increasing the light gathering surface (the main objective lens or mirror), or by using photography to control and increase the light gathering duration. The small instrument I was using would enhance brightness by over 250-500x (depending on the health and age of the user). Although some NV systems have been developed for astronomy (usually in the form of eyepieces that can be added on any telescope), they are far too expensive and cumbersome. It is much more practical to invest in either a larger telescope (which will make things even brighter), or to use cooled long exposure digital photography equipment, which can far exceed the visual capabilities of any telescope, and allows for sophisticated image stacking and editing.

Link to night vision eyepiece:
http://www.ceoptics.com/ccd/i3.html

n2s