Ancient Aliens Anyone?

STR - your quote is very focused on heredity and does apply to animals, but not necessarily to humans. Humans have adapted to their environment primarily through culture for a very long time. This is why archaic sapiens (200k+years ago) and modern sapiens differ very little. This is what defines hominids as a species - their ability to adapt to the environment through reason (culture) as opposed to basic natural selection based on physical traits. In effect, our ability to resist evolution!
 
I'm not so sure of that. Within the present-day species, there is an awful bloody lot of diversity: eye, skin, and hair colors, blood types, body types, and don't even get me STARTED on neurology! We're experimenting with variation all the time, in each and every one of us, and that abundance of material hasn't yet been exhausted. If there seems little, general difference between modern humans and, say, Cro-Magnons, it's probably because there's so much more difference between individual humans.
 
DannyinJapan said:
STR - your quote is very focused on heredity and does apply to animals, but not necessarily to humans. Humans have adapted to their environment primarily through culture for a very long time. This is why archaic sapiens (200k+years ago) and modern sapiens differ very little. This is what defines hominids as a species - their ability to adapt to the environment through reason (culture) as opposed to basic natural selection based on physical traits. In effect, our ability to resist evolution!
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Humans are animals regardless of how much of a pedestal they want to place themselves on but thats fine Danny. I just presented the theories. Which ones you buy and which ones you don't are up to you my friend. We need to look at all of them and I never said one way or the other what I believed.

Archaic humans and modern humans do differ and even if slightly the key thing is they do differ some though. I do not see humans resisting evolution. Being from a dental background I remember once in school a teacher saying that one of the things we can still see and study as proof of evolution in humans is the disappearance of wisdom teeth progressively from one generation to the next as more and more people are being born without wisdom teeth and they never show up while in others they still do. I have nieces for example that never got wisdom teeth at all that never showed up in their xrays yet their parents have them. It is theorized that eventually wisdom teeth will no longer show up in any humans as they continue to evolve. In old remains of humans this is not seen apparently as wisdom teeth are not only there often times or were but there is some evidence of a set of teeth behind the wisdom teeth as well as others that leave plenty of room for the wisdom teeth to erupt normally instead of impacting as they often do in humans now. So not only did older humans have wisdom teeth, they were coming in straight in many situations when they did.

There is also some evidence that indicates older humans had denser bones than modern ones particularly jaw bone density and in some races jaw bones are noticeably denser than in others particularly when looked at today vs older remains. We are still changing and adapting even if we are cultured.

STR
 
Great post, thank you Yvsa
 
STR said:
...There is also some evidence that indicates older humans had denser bones than modern ones particularly jaw bone density and in some races jaw bones are noticeably denser than in others particularly when looked at today vs older remains. We are still changing and adapting even if we are cultured.

STR
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The bone density change may be a direct result of aging. We live longer hence we have more opportunity for calcium loss.

n2s
 
This is a great thread, I've learned much :thumbup: I've been interested in UFOs since the early 50's, when I was a kid :eek: A few random thoughts, in no particular order:

Regarding the stone work at the Great Pyramids and Machu Pichu (spelling?): I think it had to be done by aliens. How were the stones so perfectly cut and how did they get there? There was a PBS special, challenging a couple of building contractors to make a small pyramid. They couldn't.

Another PBS special featured a man in Canada who cast a few 30-ton concrete columns. Using homemade levers and wheels and ramps and dirt-digging, he showed how he singlehandedly moved them, by himself, and placed them upright into an arch, a la Stonehenge.

Others have exclaimed that the ancient Egyptians oriented the pyramids to geographical true North and South, how could they do that since they knew nothing about the North and South poles? Any boy scout knows. The Egyptians were Sun worshippers, they oriented their square pyramids to East (the rising of the Sun) and West (the setting of the Sun). The other corners just fell into place, North and South, not that that was of any concern to them.

Much is made of the infinite number of stars, planets, and galaxies in the vast universe and that surely it is probable that other species like ours exist. Possible, but not necessarily probable. Probability is based on past experience, not future speculation. It is just as probable and possible, that we are the only ones of our type and alone in the universe. Given the thrust of our technology, we may become the aliens exploring the universe, and the seed population for future cultures. It will take a long time...we could be at the very birth of a vast exploration...if we don't destroy ourselves first.

I was intrigued by the recent comment by the physicist Stephen Hawking that it may not be in our best interests to try to contact alien species. They may be bent on colonization and exploitation, if not exploration for food supplies.

Some of these ideas are contradictory, but we know so little about what is happening.
 
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not2sharp said:
The bone density change may be a direct result of aging. We live longer hence we have more opportunity for calcium loss.

n2s
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Its a good point and I should have thought to add that at the end. I haven't given anatomy much thought since retiring from the field in 2002 when the wife and I left it altogether. ;)

I don't think we should dwell too much on my mention of the theories behind DNA. Its really just one of many and it could be way off! Humans always think they know so much. We spend countless hours teaching what we think we know to our young as if its fact when we really don't know as much as we think we do. They used to say the earth is flat and you'd be killed for saying otherwise at times. Its all so stupid looking back so why isn't it just as stupid looking forward? We should always ask ourselves what if? What if we are wrong? What if is a good question not asked enough. What we taught to college students in the 80s is not necessarily what is taught today and once we rise above that 'earth is flat no doubt about it' mentality and begin to realize that what we present as fact today often times is only fact for a short while, I think we'll be much better at moving forward when findings take us in other directions instead of holding on for dear life to our past views preventing advancement rather than remaining open to the fact that we could be wrong in our views. Often times though, those with open minds are deemed crack pots. Its sad really.

STR
 
I should just burn my diploma in Anthropology. What was I thinking??

Humans are animals who adapt through culture. This has nothing to do with pedestals or wishful thinking. The presence of wisdom teeth or elongated eye teeth, shovel-shaped incisors, fingernails instead of claws, stereoscopic vision, whatever you want - none of this has made a difference in the ability of a human to survive for several hundreds of thousands of years. (If not millions) Once we stopped being tree-monkeys and started working together (culture) as ground monkeys, our diets changed, our basic form took shape and our present tangent was set. If you are white, then there is a good chance you (and I) are the hybrid children of HS sapiens and HS neanderthals. If not, then you are pure HS sapiens.

Bone density is a function of use. Calcium is laid down in bones that get more use because of the piezoelectric effect. Ancient man used their jaws more than we do, not just eating harder foods, but also as a tool. Grooves can be seen in the incisors of ancient sapiens and neanderthals from repeated use. We think they held cordage in between their teeth when making tools or clothing. Boxers have denser bones in their forearms,etc..


All of the major physical traits that define homo sapiens - brain size, gestation periods, cranial indeces, pelvic basin morphology - these are basically identical amongst all living humans today. In terms of variation within the species, there is very little. skin color, eye shape and height are not really considered variation, as even within a sub group these variations occur.

As to the Biochemical vs Archaeological record - Archaeology is 150+ years old. DNA is less than 30 years old. There's no arguing with a fossilized turd and a Carbon14 report.
8)
 
Coldwood said:
This is a great thread, I've learned much :thumbup: I've been interested in UFOs since the early 50's, when I was a kid :eek: A few random thoughts, in no particular order:

Regarding the stone work at the Great Pyramids and Machu Pichu (spelling?): I think it had to be done by aliens. How were the stones so perfectly cut and how did they get there? There was a PBS special, challenging a couple of building contractors to make a small pyramid. They couldn't.

Another PBS special featured a man in Canada who cast a few 30-ton concrete columns. Using homemade levers and wheels and ramps and dirt-digging, he showed how he singlehandedly moved them, by himself, and placed them upright into an arch, a la Stonehenge.

Others have exclaimed that the ancient Egyptians oriented the pyramids to geographical true North and South, how could they do that since they knew nothing about the North and South poles? Any boy scout knows. The Egyptians were Sun worshippers, they oriented their square pyramids to East (the rising of the Sun) and West (the setting of the Sun). The other corners just fell into place, North and South, not that that was of any concern to them.

Much is made of the infinite number of stars, planets, and galaxies in the vast universe and that surely it is probable that other species like ours exist. Possible, but not necessarily probable. Probability is based on past experience, not future speculation. It is just as probable and possible, that we are the only ones of our type and alone in the universe. Given the thrust of our technology, we may become the aliens exploring the universe, and the seed population for future cultures. It will take a long time...we could be at the very birth of a vast exploration...if we don't destroy ourselves first.

I was intrigued by the recent comment by the physicist Stephen Hawking that it may not be in our best interests to try to contact alien species. They may be bent on colonization and exploitation, if not exploration for food supplies.

Some of these ideas are contradictory, but we know so little about what is happening.
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I've often wondered if the ancient peoples didn't have some way of mixing concrete type forumulas and making the stone. In Peru for example one of the puzzles for people seems to be the Nazca plains and not so much just the lines and designs of animal drawings only seen from the sky but the fact that many claim the entire landscape was flattened as if it was excavated and removed yet they have no rubble to speak of to explain where it was all hauled off to. Then they have all those holes in that long trail of holes which are all shallow depressions six to seven feet deep that no one can explain and there are thousands of them.

Just another what if here but what if those shallow holes and all the shaved top of that landscape was turned into building materials for making giant boulders that were once liguid or malleable or carvable that solidified after being poured in place? I know I know, stupid but hey the Romans had cement that set underwater so where did they get the recipe? It seems to make sense that bags of dirt would be easier to carry to a building site than big arse stones! Doesn't it?

STR
 
DannyinJapan said:
I should just burn my diploma in Anthropology. What was I thinking??

As to the Biochemical vs Archaeological record - Archaeology is 150+ years old. DNA is less than 30 years old. There's no arguing with a fossilized turd and a Carbon14 report.
8)
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I never suggested you burn a degree Danny. I believe I said early on about this that I really didn't know enough about it to debate it seriously but I still only present what I've read. I'm not sure I believe all of it anymore than you do. Its just another of many theories out there I felt worth looking at. Certainly not one to get bent over.

I've had some classes in your field though and enough to agree the intellect is what I think sets humans apart from animals not culture so much. Being able to use the intellect to adapt. Thats what I really see as our advantage. The dental field was basically neck up. Its all I really recall and not much at that other than it seems that older human faces were much more ape like than man today. As I recall, again going by faded memory no doubt, but as I recall the face we see on man today is only like 100,000 years old or so correct?

Anyway, thats all the debate I want on heredity, genetics, or human culture. This is starting to be too much like school and not entertainment. I want to get back to entertainment and aliens. ;)

STR
 
STR said:
I've often wondered if the ancient peoples didn't have some way of mixing concrete type forumulas and making the stone. In Peru for example one of the puzzles for people seems to be the Nazca plains and not so much just the lines and designs of animal drawings only seen from the sky but the fact that many claim the entire landscape was flattened as if it was excavated and removed yet they have no rubble to speak of to explain where it was all hauled off to. Then they have all those holes in that long trail of holes which are all shallow depressions six to seven feet deep that no one can explain and there are thousands of them.

Just another what if here but what if those shallow holes and all the shaved top of that landscape was turned into building materials for making giant boulders that were once liguid or malleable or carvable that solidified after being poured in place? I know I know, stupid but hey the Romans had cement that set underwater so where did they get the recipe? It seems to make sense that bags of dirt would be easier to carry to a building site than big arse stones! Doesn't it?

STR
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There's a lot to be wondered about, regarding our ancient ancestors. It's a common and popular misconception to think about them as being ignorant. They were very well educated and clever with the information and circumstances available to them. They lived very different lives with different attitudes than we have in the 21st century.
 
Coldwood said:
There's a lot to be wondered about, regarding our ancient ancestors. It's a common and popular misconception to think about them as being ignorant. They were very well educated and clever with the information and circumstances available to them. They lived very different lives with different attitudes than we have in the 21st century.
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I agree. Its amazing in a number of ways when you look at what was done supposedly ages ago and realize we could not duplicate it today if we tried. One of the recent shows I watched on the tube had some modern stone worker and he admitted he could not even begin to duplicate what he saw on some of the stones he was shown from various sites.

Getting back to Peru, if humans did all that, then they had to have some kind of portable mobile forge to pour liguid bronze into molds to make those pins used to lock two boulders together. When you look at some of the stone work they almost look melted somehow but we have no clue how they could do what they did even at sea level let alone that elevation. Machu Pichu is a place I've always dreamed of seeing personally.

STR
 
Lycosa said:
OK...who built the Pyramids??
Don't tell me man did that!
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Oh I know this one! :D I have been keeping a lid on it but yesterday my first David Icke book arrived after someone said something to remind me of him in my thread on this subject. The one I bought is "The Biggest Secret" and what a hoot! This guys is great! It was Reptiles that built the Pyramid Lycosa! Reptilian shape shifters came here and created human beings for slave labor and an occasional meal apparently and they built the great temples. Oh and of course they created the royal 'blue blood' classes or 'demi gods' to control the humans as mediators between them and us and I guess they still walk among us daily and run our lives disguised as humans. Years ago I watched a movie called "They Live" with Roddy McDowell. Remember him? The WWF wrestler everyone loved to hate. You know the guy that wore the Scottish Kilt and always cheated!? He starred in it. It seems to me David must have seen that same movie and then wrote a book! Well, maybe if the movie is older. I don't really know. I'm just seeing some similarities here. Funny stuff though and a must read. Great bed time material! Pleasant dreams and all! :D


Seriosly. I think man did it. We just don't know how. I think someone did though. That guy that made Corral Castle in Florida seemed to figure it out and the proof is in his work. I forget his name but he weighed what, 120 pounds soaking wet and moved all those super large mega slabs!??? Please!

STR
 
Somebody just let me know about the Russians. Apparently, since 2000, their cosmonauts have been allowed to speak openly about ET. I saw some footage today and heard cosmonauts speak about what they saw and it was stunning.
The cosmonaut in question said that they saw objects all that time from MIR and they knew they "just had to accept it as reality."

Even after all these years, I get chills when persons of such rank give confirmation.

The best footage was just a simple green ball that darted in an irregular path, climbing and descending, and raced across the Earth (as visible from MIR) in about 30 seconds. That's something like 50,000mph.
 
I watched the latest edition of Ancient Aliens Tuesday night I think it was, this weeks been too busy and full too keep track.
Anyway the title this week was, "The Mission" and some of the theories and suppositions thrown out made even me wonder WTH was going on. :eek: ;) :D At the moment I don't recall who kept mentioning Sitchim(?) the other day but he was brought up in this latest filming and stirred my interest even more in finding out where he was coming from.

All in all it was another very enjoyable couple of hours again. :thumbup: :cool: I'll try to get here earlier tomor, er today and see if I can recall some of the instances to throw out. IIRC and it was Sitchim that was writing about the ancient Sumerians and the aliens creating a slave work force by manipulating their DNA with ours along with other animal species, well let it suffice to say that it was all quite interesting, let alone the Hollow Moon Theory, I had never heard of that one before, anyone else?
 
Yvsa said:
I watched the latest edition of Ancient Aliens Tuesday night I think it was, this weeks been too busy and full too keep track.
Anyway the title this week was, "The Mission" and some of the theories and suppositions thrown out made even me wonder WTH was going on. :eek: ;) :D At the moment I don't recall who kept mentioning Sitchim(?) the other day but he was brought up in this latest filming and stirred my interest even more in finding out where he was coming from.

All in all it was another very enjoyable couple of hours again. :thumbup: :cool: I'll try to get here earlier tomor, er today and see if I can recall some of the instances to throw out. IIRC and it was Sitchim that was writing about the ancient Sumerians and the aliens creating a slave work force by manipulating their DNA with ours along with other animal species, well let it suffice to say that it was all quite interesting, let alone the Hollow Moon Theory, I had never heard of that one before, anyone else?
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Zacharia Sitchin is an interesting read and I've read everything he has published. Genesis Revisted is probably my favorite although the 12th Planet and several other of the Earth Chronicle series is quite good. It is a lot of repeat though to read his stuff. He seems to mix languages to make the meanings fit his theories at times and his imagination seems pretty good too at others like with the biggest part of his theory regarding a Seal labeled VA243. In that seal he says the Sumerians depict the sun when its very well known to be a star because they have a symbol for the sun and used it many times. That ain't it and any scholar would know it. But based on what he is getting out of pictographs and drawings he has made a lot of money and even jump started some other writers careers writing similar stuff. I don't think he has all the theories down and he flat out misinterprets many of the stuff he supposedly knows but he is worth checking out. Michael Heiser who is a scholar of ancient languages as well as a couple of others have found quite a few errors in Sitchin's translations so take what you read with a grain of salt.

STR
 
First of all I don't post hardly at all but I have been lurking for a while now. So I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but the topic interests me.

second: thank you all for the information you have put out there, some of it I knew (even if I knew it was an interesting refresher) all if it was informative. so again thank you guys.

Third: Either I am not CRAZY, or you guys are all as crazy as I am; Ill let you pick! J/K

Now I have a couple of things I would like to say, if you guys don't mind.

Dannyinjapan; STR, and Yvsa; and who ever else is interested, I think you guys would find the book titled "Behold A Pale Horse" written by William C. Cooper, and interesting read. In short he was a sailor who saw a uso/ufo and then was moved up in the ranks and he devoulges a lot of info on the topic and a few others. But basically I came to 3 conclusions about his book;
1) all the information is factual and he really saw/ it really happened to him.

2) He really saw it all, and the government let him see it to bypass something bigger?

3) He is a conspiracy theorist; however he tells you in the book that this is the reason for writing the book, so that the government will leave him alone, and "write" him off as a conspiracy theorist.

I used to think that people who said they saw a ufo where a little kooky, until I myself saw what I believed to be a ufo. Amongst all of the other weird/strange things I have witnessed. Now I listen to the stories and decipher from that, but I defiantly do not just write them off any more.

As for being a Christian and being open minded, well I am a Christian and I am open minded, I guess you could say it is because I don't go to church but I have no doubt in my mind at least (and that's all it is, my mind) that GOD exists, and created everything! So I really do not like that term about being open minded, and my mom goes to church every Sunday and is a devout christian and the mere thought of me talking about aliens used to p**s her off to no end, however she has no evidence they do not exist, as someone said here earlier you cannot prove a negative. As of late she has started to come around. I put that in there because I have seen both sides of the coin, and the term "open minded" just gets under my skin because it is all relative to the subject and the persons frame of reference (and we all have one).

The next thing I would like to mention is STR your posts 'surprise' me if nothing else, and they probably shouldn't, however here is my quick .02 about 'evolution'; you cannot deny evolution, we are constantly evolving (by definition), if we make it through a day we have evolved to the next day, that does not mean we went from being apes to being humans.

The other thing is; STR, you may be able to help me out with this one, as you already mentioned the guy with the coral castle in Florida, I know the story and know that there is a web site and it has basically become a tourist attraction of sorts.

But here is where I am confused, I once read/heard (cant remember the source for the life of me, and of course I can not find anything on the web about it) but the part of the story about the coral castle that confuses me is this: supposedly there where two guys (average random dudes) had found the guy who built this castle and they told him you have to tell us how you did that. The guy who built it responded with "if I do they will kill me", the two guys said well we will kill you if you do not. It ended up the two guys killed him.

Now if this story is true, who was he more afraid of then the two guys who ultimately ended his life?

also why is it that people of today's culture, when they think about aliens and being here in the past always assume they were here to help us? Just curious. I know some of you realize this is not the case, but I am talking about society as a whole here.

Has anyone been watching the television show "V"? I think it puts American society into perspective, kind of like the world is flat debate that you guys have already discussed. Just because modern society accepts it as being the "truth" does that make it the truth? or real for that matter? (rhetorical questions)

Sorry for the length guys, I just wanted to put my perspective on things, share a book I thought was interesting, and ask a few questions.
 
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