Andrew Demko's lock tests

They were interesting until I realized they were done by cold steel. Obvious bias. Lock strength seems very overrated to me. By lock strength I mean this "hard use" knife fad. Lock strength ranks very low on my list of reasons to buy a knife. In fact it's not on there outside of "is it a slip joint or does it lock?"

How many people have had the compression lock or frame lock fail on them?
 
bld522 said:
So is it safe to say that Cold Steel has climbed to the pinnacle of cutlery perfection for you . . . with the possible exception of aesthetics, of course?
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LOL, I wouldn't go so far. I am a bit of a steel snob, and I love Spyderco for always bringing out new steels in existing awesome models. But I don't see myself ever buying a liner lock again, for example. A frame lock because they're just so beautiful, sure. I have two compression lock models and love them both. I guess I am upgrading my criteria on locks just a bit, now that CS offers knives like the Code 4, and I've always loved the Voyager, cheap as it is. I do think they've raised the bar, which is good news for everyone. I don't see them ever becoming as agile in their steel offerings as Spyderco is though, but who knows? The 4 Max will be made in CPM 20CV, which is one of my absolute favorite steels. It will probably be my favorite folder, I mean, what a combo. :thumbup: Always was a CS fan, but perfection? There's a few other great brands, and that's just as well.
 
firefighterguy said:
They were interesting until I realized they were done by cold steel. Obvious bias. Lock strength seems very overrated to me. By lock strength I mean this "hard use" knife fad. Lock strength ranks very low on my list of reasons to buy a knife. In fact it's not on there outside of "is it a slip joint or does it lock?"

How many people have had the compression lock or frame lock fail on them?
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Compression lock is a fantastic lock, and Demko stated as much. Frame lock is not very strong, hard prying in wood will ruin it. Nothing outrageous, it's just not designed that way.
 
philwar said:
LOL, I wouldn't go so far. I am a bit of a steel snob, and I love Spyderco for always bringing out new steels in existing awesome models. But I don't see myself ever buying a liner lock again, for example.
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I don't blame you. Knives like the ZT 0770CF, the Spyderco Centofante Memory, and the entire line of Klotzli folders are real pieces of garbage if you ask me. :rolleyes:
 
philwar said:
Compression lock is a fantastic lock, and Demko stated as much. Frame lock is not very strong, hard prying in wood will ruin it. Nothing outrageous, it's just not designed that way.
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Why is it that I keep looking at your avatar and scratching my head? :confused: The problem is, I don't care if the Demko lock is a fantastic lock. I appreciate that you do, but it gains no traction with me at all. The Demko lock and the Demko lock tests are nothing more than a source of amusement to me. You can give them more meaning that that if you want to, but don't expect me to follow suit.
 
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bld522 said:
I don't blame you. Knives like the ZT 0770CF, the Spyderco Centofante Memory, and the entire line of Klotzli folders are real pieces of garbage if you ask me. :rolleyes:
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I don't think anyone is going to argue that all linerlock knives are garbage (okay, some will, but I honestly think we can disregard them) and that's certainly not happening in this thread. That said, I'm in largely the same boat as Philwar. A linerlock is a major turnoff as I just feel that there are locks on the market that pretty much outperform in in every way.

To add, if I was carrying and using folders in the same category and for the same reasons as you Iinerlocks wouldn't turn me off either. Different uses and preferences.
 
And I feel that the only function of a lock is to prevent me from injuring myself if I try to do something stupid with my knife. A liner lock will perform that function just fine. And if it doesn't, it's not on the liner lock . . . it's on me!
 
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bld522 said:
And I feel that the only function of a lock is to prevent me from injuring myself if I try to do something stupid with my knife. A liner lock will perform that function just fine. And if it doesn't, it's not on the liner lock . . . it's on me!
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All things being equal, and I do mean all things, would you pick knife A with a lock demonstratively stronger or B with a demostrontively weaker lock? (Yes, this is a thought experiment and I know not all things are ever totally equal).
 
I don't care whether knife A has a demonstrably stronger lock than knife B. I care about whether I'm using my tool responsibly. If I am, lock strength should be relatively unimportant. If anything, the stronger the lock, the more irresponsible I can be. That may work for some folks, but it's not a path I choose to go down.
 
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bld522 said:
I don't care whether knife A has a demonstrably stronger lock than knife B. I care about whether I'm using my tool responsibly. If I am, the lock strength should be immaterial. If anything, the stronger the lock, the more irresponsible I can be. And that's not a path I choose to go down.
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So if given the choice between the two, same price, same everything, you would just flip a coin?
 
Give me one real world example and I'll happily discuss it with you. The fact is, the lock a folder has is simply a consequence of the folder I select and not the reason I select it. And for what it's worth, I'd choose a ZT 0770CF over any Cold Steel folder on the planet . . . liner lock and all.
 
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bld522 said:
Give me one real world example and I'll happily discuss it with you.
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As I said, this is a pure thought experiment. In my mind, if we're talking locks stronger is unquestionably better (as long as you're not giving something up). I honestly don't know of you're on the same page and I'm trying to figure that out so we can have a more meaningful conversation.

You may very well disagree, but I'd be curious as to your reasons why.
 
I'd be curious to know why you're asking questions about a situation that has no basis in reality. And as far as I'm concerned, I've answered your question. If it's not answered to your satisfaction, so be it.
 
bld522 said:
I'd be curious to know why you're asking questions about a situation that has no basis in reality. And as far as I'm concerned, I've answered your question. If it's not answered to your satisfaction, so be it.
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That's completely fair and I was asking partly because I think discussions like this quickly get into philosophy as much as realistic knife use. To me a stronger lock is a better lock if it offers the same benefits otherwise. That's why I think these tests have merit. I realize others may not think that way and that makes me curious is all. Not trying to gotcha you or anything.
 
I disagree. These tests have no merit because they cannot and do not compare apples to apples. And even if they did, I couldn't care less about the outcome. Once again, the responsibility for using a folder correctly is on me, not on the lock it may or may not contain.
 
philwar said:
I don't agree with that last sentence. I accept that you and many others don't use any folder in a way that a peanut couldn't take. But there are plenty of people who will use a folder for tasks perhaps more suitable for a fixed blade... if they think that folder can take it. I've never understood the insistence that there is no need for an overbuilt reliable folder like a Recon 1 or even a 4 Max. I don't own any slip joints but do most other lock types. Don't really have a favorite one. There is a place for all of them. I'd never limit myself in my choices if there wasn't a very compelling reason for it. And the Tri-Ad lock has enriched the world of folding knives, just like the Axis lock before it, and the RIL before that.
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Not one slipjoint?

I wanted to send my Vic Recruit to a guy who was ripped off by lazyballs, but Al Marfione was even nicer.

Pm me and I'll send it you instead.
 
bld522 said:
I disagree. These tests have no merit because they cannot and do not compare apples to apples. And even if they did, I couldn't care less about the outcome. Once again, the responsibility for using a folder correctly is on me, not on the lock it may or may not contain.
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And if lock strength is completely irrelevant to you, I would agree they don't have any merit for you. I don't, however, think that can be extrapolated into the statement they have no merit. Now, lock strength isn't the pinnacle of achievement for me, but it is among my selection criteria. This testing is imperfect but it is, pretty literally, the best we have, so for me there is merit. It gives me at least a little hard data on the locks of various types of knives, which I definitely appreciate.
 
I bow to A.G. Russell on his take on Cold Steel. They make a few OK knives but their pronouncements are "cattle manure".
 
Danke42 said:
I bow to A.G. Russell on his take on Cold Steel. They make a few OK knives but their pronouncements are "cattle manure".
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The ad copy for almost every knife company is cattle manure, with the possible exception of Spyderco. In my experience, Cold Steel makes a number of tough, relatively lightweight folders that now have a damn decent steel and good cutting geometry.
 
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