Andrew Demko's lock tests

sodak said:
That you can think of, you mean. But your experience with knives doesn't encompass the entire possibilities in the world of knives. If you don't like the lock or the knife, don't buy it. But I'm glad that you can't dictate to me what I choose to buy or not to buy.
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To be fair, I haven't seen any evidence that bld522 is trying to dictate or even influence what anyone buys. Personally, I think the tests have merit, even if only to help inform the consumer base about relative lock strength, but I don't think arguing the tests have little real world merit is a shot at the products being tested.
 
philwar said:
Those are two bald assertions in one sentence, so kudos for that. :thumbup:

There's no cherry picking. If anything, the 'other knife' is almost always heavier, more expensive and lays a claim to being tough.
Stacked? If you mean the three tests performed by Demko are chosen by him, then that's true. If you say that Cold Steel would fail other tests then you have some backing up to do. If you say other brands would fare better, or at least better than CS, again, prove it.

I can't deny the vested interest. It's Demko's lock design, and he works for CS. But even you are not outright claiming he's cheating, and I don't think he is. So his interest in the matter is actually irrelevant.
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Wow... no kidding. I honestly don't understand these threads, but I think you have pretty well summed it up. They always devolve into the same sewer of accusation, innuendo, rumor, and the wink that lets us know that someone feels that they know something we don't about Cold Steel.

Sure, there are videos of folks that destroy knives that howl with glee when they break one, but how many CS/Demko locks actually fail in daily use? The lock failures that are on YouTube are caused by people doing things to a CS lockblade that only a testor or an idiot would do.

And how else is Demko supposed to test his locks if he doesn't find some outlandish way of pushing them to the limits? How should he promote his product which is installed on the CS line of knives? Isn't it reasonable that he would exploit the shortcomings of other locks to compare them to his brainchild? To stop for a second... everyone here does know that Demko is under contract to CS, right? Not a secret, right?

I have a couple of CS knives, but bought them for their size and utility value. The American Lawman is a WICKED slicer. Unlike so many here, it is obvious that I have different metrics in mind when making up my mind to buy a new knife. I don't buy a knife based on its lock system, but I will decide against one if the lock is too hard to use. I have been carrying a knife for over 50 years now and learned long ago about knife safety and how to use a knife. I dare to use knives daily with no lock (*gasp*) and only look at a lock as something that might save me a good cut when I tired, distracted, miscalculate or otherwise make a judgement error when using the knife. The lock is an ancillary part of the cutting system to me. So I use knives with lock backs, liner locks, and no locks at all in my daily construction duties on site with wild abandon with no care at all what kind of lock (if any) is on the knife.

philwar said:
Look. Just once I would love to see anyone make a practical objection to what Cold Steel does to promote their knives. Of course it can't be done, nothing they do makes knives less good than they are, and plenty of things they do make them better. So all the naysaying and mudslinging is really just emotional ejaculate. The old Cold Steel/Thompson hatred, in a new form. There's not a single fact-based argument against these tests. So get over it. It just makes you and the rest look petty.
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Well said. Reading this thread all at once really makes the pettiness stand out. On the other hand, since there is no one that has ever disproved one of CS's own tests, no disgruntled employee that has come forward to scream they were faked, no leaked information that says the knives used weren't CS, or any other kind of real information that could blow up the CS tests, I think that may have worked in Thompson's favor.

A lot of people hate Thompson, but don't know why. I lot hate his testing methods, but few have watched his videos. A lot of folks just don't like him for other reasons they can't explain except that no one else in the herd does.

But there are an awful of folks that snicker at the tests, chuckle about them when they describe them to their friends, and then go out and buy a CS knife. I personally didn't care for the theatrics I saw in Thompson's cut testing that I saw more than a decade ago, but I did buy his AL knife at the suggestion of one of the knife makers on this forum. I thought it was so dang silly... he PMed me because he didn't want to listen to all the static he knew his recommendation would start.

Robert
 
Again, to be fair, this thread has been quite civilized as these things go. I can't say if the conversation has been productive, but it has been interesting and unheated. I'm kind of hoping it stays that way.
 
It's got a chance if people don't start taking what other people say personally. ;)
 
Danke42 said:
OK I'll take a swing at that one.

Please demonstrate either by way of video or a series of photos what practical motion you would perform with a knife in the real world that mirrors the test.
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Cold Steel has said numerous times that the tests do not represent normal use. What they do represent is accidents and other abuse which could occur in emergency situations. It's important to remember who Cold Steel's target market is. It isn't the regular guy looking for an EDC and it isn't the knife enthusiast.
 
Not practical?

The instructions glued to coconuts in my local supermarket suggest spine whacking (!) them until they crack.
The picture shows a fixed knife but the common house husband might not know the difference. Good when he uses a cold steel folder for such tasks.
:-)

BTW even a fixed kitchen knife might crack before the coconut and I wouldn't like that tip fly into my eye.
Wasn't there a Katana salesman on TV whacking it on the table and hurting himself?
 
Jens Schuetz said:
Not practical?

The instructions glued to coconuts in my local supermarket suggest spine whacking (!) them until they crack.
The picture shows a fixed knife but the common house husband might not know the difference. Good when he uses a cold steel folder for such tasks.
:-)

BTW even a fixed kitchen knife might crack before the coconut and I wouldn't like that tip fly into my eye.
Wasn't there a Katana salesman on TV whacking it on the table and hurting himself?
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Yes. Even fixed blades can break.

[video=youtube_share;XIxVxt-oWxc]http://youtu.be/XIxVxt-oWxc[/video]
 
OK so just to be perfectly clear.

These "lock tests" are performed in this manner because you couldn't get the same result by cutting a rope or stabbing car door (as examples); there's no common use/real world activity that corresponds?
 
RamZar said:
Yes. Even fixed blades can break.

[video=youtube_share;XIxVxt-oWxc]http://youtu.be/XIxVxt-oWxc[/video]
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Ah thanks. That's the one. I know it's mean and normally I don't laugh at other people's accidents but for some reason this puts a smile on my face.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Well, ideally it would be done by a third party and they would test the Cold Steel to failure as well. The problem with not doing that is the only real safe assumption is the Cold Steel can only hold 1 (or 10 since that tends to be the samllest increment they add) pounds more than they show it holding.
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Not testing CS to failure is precisely where objectivity stops and marketing begins.

Another marketing technique, as pointed out by bld522, is the "pairing" used in the test. What if for every CS knife, they found a spydermade knife that performed better than the CS? Equally doable pairing, but marketing dept would not allow it would they? :rolleyes:
 
bld522 said:
Yep. The practical objection is that the tests have no practical application in the real world. I believe that's the point Danke42 was trying to make. Now about that avatar . . . ;)
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I think you'd be doing Danke42 a favor by letting him make his own points. As to the practical application, that is clearly false. You are apparently the type of user who will not stress his knife in any way. Many of us use knives much differently.
 
bld522 said:
Mall ninjas maybe? ;) :D
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Earlier you said about this thread

It's got a chance if people don't start taking what other people say personally. ;)
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You're a piece of work. Sliding in these backhanded insults every now and then, and then acting surprised and condescending when someone takes it personally. Nice going. :thumbup:
 
I dunno, I have met many people who have had folders close on their fingers (7 off the top of my head) and have been there once when it has happened. Luckily never to me. Not fun.

Lock strength is definitely a practical concern depending on what your tool is used for. I carry a Spydie UKPK just as much as my American Lawman and I wouldn't say either is necessarily "better" than the other.
 
GrinderMcgee said:
I dunno, I have met many people who have had folders close on their fingers (7 off the top of my head) and have been there once when it has happened. Luckily never to me. Not fun.
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I'm sure you're not the only one. And I'm also sure the haters will blame it all on misuse, and I'd even call that a fair point. But objecting to making a lock stronger is like objecting to putting better brakes on a car. Sure, if you drive very carefully and certainly not too fast, and never in the mountains, you may not need better brakes. But when have better brakes ever made your car worse? And why should testing who comes to a stop the quickest from exactly 62 mph to zero not be relevant to brake quality? Or what brakes can do it 50x in a row without fading?

Lock strength is definitely a practical concern depending on what your tool is used for. I carry a Spydie UKPK just as much as my American Lawman and I wouldn't say either is necessarily "better" than the other.
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Well I would, but that's the beauty: it's all good, to each his own. But some people simply cannot stand some brands, some people, some types... Let the rationalization commence!
 
Kwon Kwang said:
They market their knives towards martial artists, military personnel and LEOs.
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Right. And Mall Ninjas! :D I wouldn't be at all surprised if the average age of Cold Steel knife purchasers is younger than it is for any of the other major manufacturers. That's just a guess on my part, of course.

Now before you get your panties in a wad, I'm not suggesting that Cold Steel doesn't make quality knives. Far from it. I'm just looking at their videos and asking myself which age demographic they're geared to impress. The answer is pretty obvious to me, but the answer you come up with may be different.
 
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