- Joined
- Feb 3, 2004
- Messages
- 7,119
True. The Spartan really took some getting used to, but all the other ones are fine. I haven't handled a Talwar, if it's anything like the Spartan I can empathize.
Try a Hold Out III. It's a real experience.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Andrew Demko's lock tests
- Thread starter Kwon Kwang
- Start date
Try a Hold Out III. It's a real experience.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2011
- Messages
- 27,433
True. The Spartan really took some getting used to, but all the other ones are fine. I haven't handled a Talwar, if it's anything like the Spartan I can empathize.
I've heard the lock on the Spartan is a real bear. The Talwar I gifted away, partly for the lock, partly because the handle design made it quite cramped for my mitts. It's a knife that I really want to like because it has so many features that speak to me, but I can't quite justify the 5.5" blade and the 4" just isn't comfortable for me in use.
I think it's nice to have another data point to help in evaluating knives. I like (and own) knives with almost all the different types of locks (including none). It's not a deal breaker or deal maker for me, but I enjoy seeing how they perform.
It's nice to have choices.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2004
- Messages
- 7,119
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2009
- Messages
- 5,975
No common sense required either.. . . and no limitations beyond the constraints of common sense.
It's a cherry picked media event with a stacked deck done by a vested interest.
Calling it a test is a bit too generous.
Most of the Tri-Ad locks take some breaking in. If you tried it a few times at a local store, then I am sure it was stiff, no doubt. The ones I have I left in the half open position for about 3-4 days straight, along with just simple opening and closing the knife. It will become easier after you break it in.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2004
- Messages
- 7,119
True that!
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2004
- Messages
- 7,119
Hmmm. I'm not sure I'm willing to run that risk, particularly when the Hold Out III doesn't really offer me anything I can't get in products that don't require break-in periods. Besides, who needs a lock as strong as the Tri-Ad in a knife with the geometry of the Hold Out III anyway? Certainly not me.
the only part unfair about the tests is the "vs". if someone compiled all the test results and listed them on an absolute scale, like top gear with their driving times, we'll get a better picture overall.
i would not feel salty about the result unless you thought PM2 is somehow better than CS hold out II in every way.
i would not feel salty about the result unless you thought PM2 is somehow better than CS hold out II in every way.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2004
- Messages
- 7,119
Well I wouldn't compare a PM2 to CS Hold Out III in the first place. They're two very different knives as far as I'm concerned. What I would I say is that the PM2's compression lock is more than adequate for the kinds of tasks I'd expect it to perform. And that's good enough for me. Your expectations may vary, of course.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2011
- Messages
- 27,433
Well, ideally it would be done by a third party and they would test the Cold Steel to failure as well. The problem with not doing that is the only real safe assumption is the Cold Steel can only hold 1 (or 10 since that tends to be the samllest increment they add) pounds more than they show it holding. Not to bag on Cold Steel, because I like their products, but these videos are, for me, much more useful in assessing and gathering data about the knife they're comparing theirs to. Which means they're, perhaps inadvertently, informing much more about my purchases from their competitors than from them.
Also, if they did Charpy style testing for the spine whack portion it would certainly break both knives, but also give us much more useful numbers as to how the locks resisted direct impact and not just sready weight increases. Their current method is essentially pass/fail, but lock strength should really be measured on a contimuum.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2004
- Messages
- 7,119
I'd like to see that as well, but more as an intellectual exercise than something I'd need to incorporate into my decision-making when considering the purchase of a folder. The engineering aspect of it is fascinating, of course. But its application is not relatable to the choices I make because I'll never stress any of my folders to the point of lock failure. For me, folders are nothing more than cutting implements. If I need a knife to be more than that, I'll pick up a fixed-blade . . . and I always keep one nearby just in case. I guess I'm just old-fashioned that way. 
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2009
- Messages
- 5,975
Those are two bald assertions in one sentence, so kudos for that. :thumbup:
There's no cherry picking. If anything, the 'other knife' is almost always heavier, more expensive and lays a claim to being tough.
Stacked? If you mean the three tests performed by Demko are chosen by him, then that's true. If you say that Cold Steel would fail other tests then you have some backing up to do. If you say other brands would fare better, or at least better than CS, again, prove it.
I can't deny the vested interest. It's Demko's lock design, and he works for CS. But even you are not outright claiming he's cheating, and I don't think he is. So his interest in the matter is actually irrelevant.
Look. Just once I would love to see anyone make a practical objection to what Cold Steel does to promote their knives. Of course it can't be done, nothing they do makes knives less good than they are, and plenty of things they do make them better. So all the naysaying and mudslinging is really just emotional ejaculate. The old Cold Steel/Thompson hatred, in a new form. There's not a single fact-based argument against these tests. So get over it. It just makes you and the rest look petty.
OK I'll take a swing at that one.
Please demonstrate either by way of video or a series of photos what practical motion you would perform with a knife in the real world that mirrors the test.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2009
- Messages
- 5,975
I said
There's no objection in there, practical or otherwise. You're trying to make me do the work. Because obviously you're not able to.
Again. Demko is demonstrating relative lock strength between CS knives and various other brands. A practical objection please. Sheez.
And then you proceeded with
There's no objection in there, practical or otherwise. You're trying to make me do the work. Because obviously you're not able to.
Again. Demko is demonstrating relative lock strength between CS knives and various other brands. A practical objection please. Sheez.
Yep. The practical objection is that the tests have no practical application in the real world. I believe that's the point Danke42 was trying to make. Now about that avatar . . .
That you can think of, you mean. But your experience with knives doesn't encompass the entire possibilities in the world of knives. If you don't like the lock or the knife, don't buy it. But I'm glad that you can't dictate to me what I choose to buy or not to buy.