Another Condor Disappointment...

I have 3 things to add to this...after 1 comment.
I havn't read all the posts here, so to save time, I skimmed the first page.
So, if I am beating a dead horse, or stepping on your toes, sorry.

1, I rarely come to WSS GEAR anymore, because it can be a whorehouse of off shore manufactured crap. (I'm sure you all miss me :)).
Why is Condor a "NO GO" zone in WSS, well, because of nepotism.

2, WHY don't you try to find an American company to buy a knife from? (I own good knives made out side the US, but if I can, I do.)
EDIT..AXE, sorry..I like old axes from flea markets personally...check some out...much better steel.

3, why is this thread not moved to FEEDBACK where it belongs...BECAUSE of Nepotism?. Or someone is missing the rules.....

Flame away...I know some other old timers feel as I do, they just haven't spoken up yet...

(and for you guys who don't know me, I have owned a pile of condor knives and machete's. While the Machete's are great, any move from the norm, is a all out fail in my book. Laughable edges, fit and finish that sucked, pins coming loose and poor heat treat. I still own 2 Condors, a Cutlass machete and an Eco El Salvador)
 
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This is my little brother using his Condor Hudson Bay that I got him for Christmas 2yrs ago (Thanks 42blades). This thing takes a wicked edge & so far it has been awesome !
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gunknifenut said:
I have 3 things to add to this...after 1 comment.
I havn't read all the posts here, so to save time, I skimmed the first page.
So, if I am beating a dead horse, or stepping on your toes, sorry.

1, I rarely come to WSS GEAR anymore, because its a whorehouse of off shore manufactured crap. (I'm sure you all miss me :)).
Why is Condor a "NO GO" zone in WSS, well, because of nepotism.

2, WHY don't you try to find an American company to buy a knife from? (I own good knives made out side the US, but if I can, I do.)
EDIT..AXE, sorry..I like old axes from flea markets personally...check some out...much better steel.

3, why is this thread not moved to FEEDBACK where it belongs...BECAUSE of Nepotism. Or someone is missing the rules.....

Flame away...I know some other old timers feel as I do, they just haven't spoken up yet...

(and for you guys who don't know me, I have owned a pile of condor knives and machete's. While the Machete's are great, any move from the norm, is a all out fail in my book. Laughable edges, fit and finish that sucked, pins coming loose and poor heat treat. I still own 2 Condors, a Cutlass machete and an Eco El Salvador)
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I think you'd be impressed by the majority of the most recent production runs of knives they've been doing. Most of them look nearly custom. :)

I'd be interested in an explanation of the nepotism accusation. If you're referring to Joe then he actually isn't really that active here these days (or anywhere else for that matter--the guy is too busy!)

I'll be the first to admit that Condor isn't perfect, and certainly not a brand for everyone. But dang it, I love 'em! :D Definitely hard to beat the value of a good vintage axe, though--like you say. NO ONE makes them like they used to short of semi-production shops like Neeman Tools, and even they're not in the same league as the top-tier manufacturers from days of old.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Actually I've heard plenty of problems with Council's and Husqvarna's models. For the purposes of the discussion here I presume we're excluding Council's more expensive Velvicut line. In spite of those problems often being just as bad as those experienced with Condors, people aren't as concerned about them for some reason.
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This is just crazy 42, come on man. Read what you wrote right up above here.....come on man.
Husgvarna's are made by Wetterlings...and sure, you might find a complaint about them both....that they aren't as well made as Gransfurs Bruks. Well, my good man, that is a FAR stretch to comparing the issues stated here and with all the Condor products.
Look, you sell Condor. What can you say, other than they are just super. I get it.
But lets not get Crazy and compare an Axe made in El Salvador and and Axes made in Sweden....I won't listen to that malarkey.
 
gunknifenut said:
This is just crazy 42, come on man. Read what you wrote right up above here.....come on man.
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It's the complete truth. I fail to see what's crazy about it. Condors axes are certainly their most problematic item in terms of the frequency of faults, but the faults they do exhibit I've seen on a not-infrequent basis from the aforementioned makers and worse. The simple fact is that it's much easier to make a poor axe than it is a fine one, and a small mistake at only one of a multi-stage process can render the tool faulty. In many ways it would make more sense for makers to sell their axes unhung as it would eliminate easily half of the problems that are often experienced.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I think you'd be impressed by the majority of the most recent production runs of knives they've been doing. Most of them look nearly custom. :)

I'd be interested in an explanation of the nepotism accusation. If you're referring to Joe then he actually isn't really that active here these days (or anywhere else for that matter--the guy is too busy!)

I'll be the first to admit that Condor isn't perfect, and certainly not a brand for everyone. But dang it, I love 'em! :D Definitely hard to beat the value of a good vintage axe, though--like you say. NO ONE makes them like they used to short of semi-production shops like Neeman Tools, and even they're not in the same league as the top-tier manufacturers from days of old.
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Accusation..no, a fact.
I am uncomfortable with a guy working for a company being a mod...sorry, call me crazy. It isn't a relaxed and open forum in that sense IMO.
42, I love you man, but every time Condor comes up, your all over it like sweat on a jock strap.
I see it, and you can look up your own posts.....lots of condor posts...
Look, whatever, I will go back to the rest of BF and hide out, I love you guys, but Condor is a company that makes piss poor KNIVES, and this thread belongs in feedback. I have had an issue with every Condor other than their machete's (which are good machete's) and so have tons of other folks...
All kinds of other companies take serious heat on BF for making and pandering crap, but here in WSS, Condor's spotty at best performance has hidden out. I don't like it.
Sorry.
 
gunknifenut said:
This is just crazy 42, come on man. Read what you wrote right up above here.....come on man.
Husgvarna's are made by Wetterlings...and sure, you might find a complaint about them both....that they aren't as well made as Gransfurs Bruks. Well, my good man, that is a FAR stretch to comparing the issues stated here and with all the Condor products.
Look, you sell Condor. What can you say, other than they are just super. I get it.
But lets not get Crazy and compare an Axe made in El Salvador and and Axes made in Sweden....I won't listen to that malarkey.
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Re-quoted to address your edited post.

Yes--I'm aware that Husqvarnas are made by Wetterlings (and Hults Bruks) and I repeat that I've read plenty of complaints over the past few years with Husqvarnas, Wetterlings, and even--yes even--Gransfors themselves.

Yes, I sell Condors so take my word for what it's worth to you--but my business model is different from most other retailers. I ONLY carry items I find to be of good value and would personally be happy with, and I carry items because I like them--I don't like them because I carry them. I was a Condor fan LONG before I opened up shop, and I know you've been around long enough to remember that. Even if I closed down my business tomorrow I'd still be a fan of Condor--this has nothing to do with money to me.

I've been called crazy before and if that's what you think then so be it--but I have a highly experienced opinion of these tools and I'm here to share my observations on them. If you search through my posts you'll actually find countless times where I've pointed out specific problems with Condor items--I tell it like I see it, and I'm not stopping now.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It's the complete truth. I fail to see what's crazy about it. Condors axes are certainly their most problematic item in terms of the frequency of faults, but the faults they do exhibit I've seen on a not-infrequent basis from the aforementioned makers and worse. The simple fact is that it's much easier to make a poor axe than it is a fine one, and a small mistake at only one of a multi-stage process can render the tool faulty. In many ways it would make more sense for makers to sell their axes unhung as it would eliminate easily half of the problems that are often experienced.
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DUDE, That's like a burger with out the bun brother...
If and when you go to select an Axe, you should look at it, and see if said axe is hung properly, if not, select another from the pile...now, with Wetterlings and such, they are more often than not, properly hung. I have owned 12 Wetterlings, and only had one slightly off, that was a hatchet.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Re-quoted to address your edited post.

Yes--I'm aware that Husqvarnas are made by Wetterlings (and Hults Bruks) and I repeat that I've read plenty of complaints over the past few years with Husqvarnas, Wetterlings, and even--yes even--Gransfors themselves.

Yes, I sell Condors so take my word for what it's worth to you--but my business model is different from most other retailers. I ONLY carry items I find to be of good value and would personally be happy with, and I carry items because I like them--I don't like them because I carry them. I was a Condor fan LONG before I opened up shop, and I know you've been around long enough to remember that. Even if I closed down my business tomorrow I'd still be a fan of Condor--this has nothing to do with money to me.

I've been called crazy before and if that's what you think then so be it--but I have a highly experienced opinion of these tools and I'm here to share my observations on them. If you search through my posts you'll actually find countless times where I've pointed out specific problems with Condor items--I tell it like I see it, and I'm not stopping now.
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I know your a fan of Condor, and yes, I have been around long enough to stand up FOR you in that effect, what I am saying, whenever someone states an issue, its a slam party of excuses for Condor until the issue vanishes, and the post still DOES NOT GO TO FEEDBACK, something that would happen about any other knife, any other place on BF ....at least thats how I see it.
 
gunknifenut said:
Accusation..no, a fact.
I am uncomfortable with a guy working for a company being a mod...sorry, call me crazy. It isn't a relaxed and open forum in that sense IMO.
42, I love you man, but every time Condor comes up, your all over it like sweat on a jock strap.
I see it, and you can look up your own posts.....lots of condor posts...
Look, whatever, I will go back to the rest of BF and hide out, I love you guys, but Condor is a company that makes piss poor KNIVES, and this thread belongs in feedback. I have had an issue with every Condor other than their machete's (which are good machete's) and so have tons of other folks...
All kinds of other companies take serious heat on BF for making and pandering crap, but here in WSS, Condor's spotty at best performance has hidden out. I don't like it.
Sorry.
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Again, Joe is around rarely enough that his mod status is practically honorary, and he was a mod before he started designing for Condor. He's a man of integrity and I don't see any reason why you should feel silenced (in fact you obviously don't! :p ) in your opinion here. I think we all welcome differing opinions here as it gives a more complete picture of the matter at hand. I've never once seen a situation where someone was silenced for speaking their disdain for Condor. I do agree that there's potential for a conflict of interest in such a situation but I haven't seen any problems so far.

And yes, I post on Condor threads a lot, but that's because they're my favorite brand and I happen to have played with a LOT more of them than most folks. :D

In terms of the "select another axe from the pile" issue, there aren't that many brick and mortar stores that carry many of those axes so most are purchased through online vendors, and so the buyer is assuming a risk. In terms of your experience with Wetterlings I'm not surprised. 1 in 12 is an ok ratio, but is both a very small sample size and is only one kind of problem that can occur with an axe. Even using that sample, though, you would have an 8 1/3% chance of getting a bad one. :)

Ultimately I think that it's important for folks to realize what they're potentially getting into when it comes to buying any tool from any company and Condor is no exception. If you think the risk of a lemon is greater than you consider reasonable for the price, don't buy it. But at least they have a good warranty to back it up in case you do end up with one. I just wish that they'd hire an assistant or two for Rick because they have him trying to handle way too much. The man is amazing at what he does, but even a professional juggler can only keep so many balls in the air! Their customer service response/turnaround time could be a lot better if they handled a dedicated rep.
 
gunknifenut said:
....what I am saying, whenever someone states an issue, its a slam party of excuses for Condor until the issue vanishes, and the post still DOES NOT GO TO FEEDBACK, something that would happen about any other knife, any other place on BF ....at least thats how I see it.
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This ^. There is a ridiculous amount of excuse-making and over-rationalization in this thread, for what started as completely legitimate criticism, based on two recent experiences with Condor products, that were for lack of a better word, crap.

And I'm sorry, but to try and equate whatever criticisms might be out there of Swedish-made axes with the amount of customer dissatisfaction that many, including myself, have had with Condor axes is really stretching it.

I respect your position 42, and I know I'm not going to change your mind. And, based on my two experiences with what I can only call "junk," you won't be changing mine either. I now own two axes from Husqvarna, and both managed to be properly hung, with great grain orientation and far better steel, for basically the same price. There simply is no comparison.
 
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Smithhammer said:
This ^. There is a ridiculous amount of excuse-making and over-rationalization in this thread, for what started as completely legitimate criticism, based on two recent experiences with Condor products, that were for lack of a better word, crap.

And I'm sorry, but to try and equate whatever criticisms might be out there of Swedish-made axes with the amount of customer dissatisfaction that many, including myself, have had with Condor axes is really stretching it.

I respect your position 42, and I know I'm not going to change your mind. And, based on my two experiences with what I can only call "junk," you won't be changing mine either. I now own two axes from Husqvarna, and both managed to be properly hung, with great grain orientation and far better steel, for basically the same price. There simply is no comparison.
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That's absolutely fine, and I respect your opinion as well. However, I don't think it's a stretch at all to compare problems experienced between brands in different quality tiers. My point wasn't to try to say that "well they're just as good!" or "high end axes are a scam" or anything even remotely along those lines--I'm merely trying to illustrate that the problems you experienced are not absent from high-end axes by makers considered as having some of the better quality control in the business. There's simply a magnified chance of getting a lemon with axes regardless of manufacturer or price point, although they share a similar inverse relationship between frequency/severity and price point as other tools like knives--it's just a higher incidence rate across the board in my observation.

I'll have to snap some photos of what a GOOD Condor axe looks like. My second point was that just because the one you got was crap (and I don't dispute that) it doesn't mean that ALL of them are crap. :)
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
That's absolutely fine, and I respect your opinion as well. However, I don't think it's a stretch at all to compare problems experienced between brands in different quality tiers. My point wasn't to try to say that "well they're just as good!" or "high end axes are a scam" or anything even remotely along those lines--I'm merely trying to illustrate that the problems you experienced are not absent from high-end axes by makers considered as having some of the better quality control in the business. There's simply a magnified chance of getting a lemon with axes regardless of manufacturer or price point, although they share a similar inverse relationship between frequency/severity and price point as other tools like knives--it's just a higher incidence rate across the board in my observation.

I'll have to snap some photos of what a GOOD Condor axe looks like. My second point was that just because the one you got was crap (and I don't dispute that) it doesn't mean that ALL of them are crap. :)
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I think you're missing my point - I'm not comparing my experience with a Condor axe against "high end" axes, which would be an unfair comparison. I'm comparing it against an axe within +/- $10, which I would consider to be the same price range. So it isn't 'apples to oranges,' but 'apples to apples,' imo.

And I'm sure they're not all crap, by any means. But it sure seems to me that the possibility of getting a bad one seems unacceptably high, unless it's purchased from someone like you, who is doing a fair bit of 'weeding out.' Btw, what happens to the ones you reject?
 
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Smithhammer said:
I think you're missing my point - I'm not comparing my experience with a Condor axe against "high end" axes, which would be an unfair comparison. I'm comparing it against an axe within +/- $10, which I would consider to be the same price range. So it isn't 'apples to oranges,' but 'apples to apples,' imo.

And I'm sure they're not all crap, by any means. But it sure seems to me that the possibility of getting a bad one seems unacceptably high, unless it's purchased from someone like you, who is doing the 'weeding out.' Which again, says something. Btw, what happens to the ones you reject?
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Oh no--I get your point completely and mostly agree with it. I'm simply extending the upper threshold of the argument to encompass all the way to the top-tier products to demonstrate that issues exist in seemingly statistically significant numbers at all levels no matter how high you go. True, the incidence rate does go down, as one would expect, but you still find more problematic units amongst axes than you do with many other edged tools that have a less complicated (from a mass manufacturing standpoint) production/assembly process. I simply argue that Condors are still a good value so long as you either get a good one or are willing to keep sending it back until you do get one.

In terms of the ones I weed out, ones that have only minor issues (a flawless head but hung a little out of line, bad grain orientation but no runout, etc) I sell as "Grade B" items at a steep discount for folks who don't care about it and want an extra good bargain. Ones with fatal flaws like runout, loose heads, misaligned eyes, etc. etc. I send back to Condor for replacement. Takes a while and holds up capital on my end but it's worth the hassle. :)
 
I have had good service from the Condor machetes I have purchased (4 and counting). My Hudson Bay is kind of a fun knife, but I have not found a usage niche in my life. I like the knife and its very sharp.

I was not totally pleased with the Bushlore, but I have found a very useful niche for it in my working life. It goes with me on jobs and I might be cutting most anything to splitting rocks.

I have one of the neck knives and I never hear much talk about them. I like the little knife and I carry it sometimes. But it is very difficult to sharpen by ordinary means. I have spent hours sharpening or trying to sharpen it. Maybe my expectations are too high? Thinking of using a grinding wheel on it and if that doesn't work, I'll toss it.

Have not bought a Condor blade since the last Blade Show. We'll see how it goes this year.
 
I didn't read most of this, because I am in a hurry at the moment. I do have to say of what I did read, this has been the most hate I've seen for Condor in a long time. I've played with a lot of them, and own quite a few of my own. I'm extremely satisfied with the ones I own, and most of the ones I've handled had good edges and fit and finish. Some had minor issues, but nothing that 5-10 minutes of your time wouldn't fix. From small knives up to large machetes, at least 95% have been fantastic bang for your buck. These are working mans tools, they aren't meant to just look pretty and be pristine, so a small issue on the handle, or even the edge shouldn't be an issue. We all know (or should) know how to fix a rough spot on a handle, or a dulled edge...
 
I've been satisfied with my Condor knives.
Not sure if I just lucked out but I cant complain about they're quality for the price.



They both take, and keep a wicked edge. And I don't feel guilty when I abuse them.
I have tinkered with them a bit to get them to my liking though.
I might be a little weary of buying an axe from them now though.
 
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