Another Condor Disappointment...

[22-rimfire]

I agree about the axes or hatchets. I think you're just as well off buying at the hardware store.

I am generally pleased with my Condor blades overall.

 

[Hammer67]

I didn't read most of this, because I am in a hurry at the moment. I do have to say of what I did read, this has been the most hate I've seen for Condor in a long time. I've played with a lot of them, and own quite a few of my own. I'm extremely satisfied with the ones I own, and most of the ones I've handled had good edges and fit and finish. Some had minor issues, but nothing that 5-10 minutes of your time wouldn't fix. From small knives up to large machetes, at least 95% have been fantastic bang for your buck. These are working mans tools, they aren't meant to just look pretty and be pristine, so a small issue on the handle, or even the edge shouldn't be an issue. We all know (or should) know how to fix a rough spot on a handle, or a dulled edge...

1) This isn't about "hate." Trying to characterize it as such is totally off base. My criticisms have been fact-based (until the end of this post, that is...)

2) I always have to laugh when people try to make excuses like, "these are working man's tools," as though that makes it acceptable to put up with poor quality control, and tools that require fixing when they're brand new. Does a "working man" put up with a brand new hammer with a loose head? Does a working man put up with a brand new knife that requires extensive re-profiling before it can be used at all? Hell no they don't. The working men I know buy they best tools they can possibly afford, because they can't afford less. And trust me - I was neither looking for, nor wanting, something that was going to be "pretty and pristine." I was looking for a real axe, which this wasn't.

3) The fact that I know how to re-hang an axe head is completely beside the point. The point is - a brand new, quality product shouldn't require this. Period. It just ain't that hard to deliver on this point - even with products made abroad, in different environments. And even 42 admitted - in this thread - that he sends it back if it has a loose head.

4) I continue to shake my head at people who are saying they provide "good bang for the buck" when their QC is as spotty as it is. I can provide plenty of examples of axes and knives within the same price ranges that are far more consistently superior - in terms of fit and finish, in terms of the quality of steel used, in terms of the consistency of the grind, etc.

My criticisms of Condor are based on two first-hand experiences, with two different products, and they were both sub-par, to say the least. That isn't an "opinion" - it's a fact. But since opinions are flying, here's mine - people who are enamored with Condor either a) have really low expectations for what comprises a 'quality product' and/or b) are confusing shoddy quality with some sort of romantic idea of "humble, working man's tools" which is all well and good if you're in El Salvador and you're paying $5 for it. It doesn't fly in the N. American marketplace when there are so many better options for the same price.

And while we're at it, here's another opinion - Condor should stick to what they know, which was making simple, decent machetes. Where they have gone wrong is in trying to capitalize on the recent "bushcraft craze" with a bunch of stuff they clearly don't really know how to make. Now that's some "hate", eh?

 

[TheGame]

1) This isn't about "hate." Trying to characterize it as such is totally off base. My criticisms have been fact-based (until the end of this post, that is...)

2) I always have to laugh when people try to make excuses like, "these are working man's tools," as though that makes it acceptable to put up with poor quality control, and tools that require fixing when they're brand new. Does a "working man" put up with a brand new hammer with a loose head? Does a working man put up with a brand new knife that requires extensive re-profiling before it can be used at all? Hell no they don't. The working men I know buy they best tools they can possibly afford. And trust me - I was neither looking for, nor wanting, something that was going to be "pretty and pristine." I was looking for a real axe, which this wasn't.

3) The fact that I know how to re-hang an axe head is completely beside the point. The point is - a brand new, quality product shouldn't require this. Period. It just ain't that hard to deliver on this point - even with products made abroad, in different environments. And even 42 admitted - in this thread - that he sends it back if it has a loose head.

4) I continue to shake my head at people who are saying they provide "good bang for the buck" when their QC is as spotty as it is. I can provide plenty of examples of axes and knives within the same price ranges that are far more consistently superior - in terms of fit and finish, in terms of the quality of steel used, in terms of the consistency of the grind, etc.

My criticisms of Condor are based on two first-hand experiences, with two different products, and they were both sub-par, to say the least. That isn't an "opinion" - it's a fact. But since opinions are flying, here's mine - people who are enamored with Condor either a) have really low expectations for what comprises a 'quality product' and/or b) are confusing shoddy quality with some sort of romantic idea of "humble, working man's tools" which is all well and good if you're in El Salvador and you're paying $5 for it. It doesn't fly in the N. American marketplace when there are so many better options for the same price.

And while we're at it, here's another opinion - Condor should stick to what they know, which was making simple, decent machetes. Where they have gone wrong is in trying to capitalize on the recent "bushcraft craze" with a bunch of stuff they clearly don't really know how to make. Now that's some "hate", eh?

1. I was talking about in general. Most threads with Condor get more positive than negative than I have seen. Not this one, though.

2. I was more referring to the knives/machetes. I don't have much experience with their axes. Most of the ones I've handled didn't need extensive reprofiling, just a minor touch up and maybe a little sanding on the handle to get it to a fantastic tool. Also, it's not an excuse. Their quality control may not be perfect, but it's getting a lot better from their earlier tools. If I can get a Condor that needs a 10 minutes of work for $10 or more less, than I rather put a little work and save money. That's just me though. I don't speak for everyone. I know absolutely no one that would spend $80 over $50 and 10 minutes of their time. (From the people I work with, to the people I have hunted with)

3. Again, I was speaking more toward knives and machetes. I'd agree that an axe shouldn't come loose. Put a lot of the other people brought up knives and machetes.

4. Once again, I was more talking about the knives and machetes. Have not had much experience with their axes. The knives and machetes I have handled, for the most part have not had any major issues. Some were a little duller, a little rougher on the handle. Both of which can be easily solved with a little bit of time.

As for not knowing quality, I own multiple ESEE and customs, so I know what quality knives are. My Condors aren't as flawless as they are. But for the price, I don't expect them to. They are quality for what I paid for though.

The hate wasn't at the thing about the axe, I'd be upset at that too. Just not the knives and machetes being a little dull or having a slightly roughed up handle. Just my $0.02

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I think that he wasn't referring to you specifically with regards to the "hate" comment. [edit: ninja'd! ]

And I think that you're confusing an, albeit unfortunate, bad luck of the draw with what the tools usually are. I speak from handling hundreds and hundreds of their products a year that the odds of getting a good one do strongly outweigh the odds of getting a bad one and when you get a good one they're very well built and functioning tools especially for the money, and perform much above their price point. As you have yet to experience a good one you're regrettably not in much of a position to criticize their performance as a total brand. They're not so much trying to capitalize on the bushcraft craze as much as serve that market sector as their focus--they've been very responsive to customer requests for changes to models (even ones that required extensive/expensive retooling) and introductions of new ones. They ARE "working tools" in spite of a little more play in the consistency department. I have a first generation Rodan, which was their first venture in doing a full flat grind, and it's absolutely ugly as sin, with a lopsided primary grind that's about as crisp as mashed potatoes, and you know what? It cuts wood like a Mora and slices a lot better while handling batoning and medium prying like a champ and being a dream to touch up. It's my most-used knife in the woods to this day and I own many higher-end knives. Their current production Rodans are very well executed, by contrast, other than benefiting from a touchup in the edge department.

 

[ISP 5353]

Sorry for your bad luck. I have a Golok and a couple of Bushlores. They have been good working blades.

 

[Liam Ryan]

As you have yet to experience a good one you're regrettably not in much of a position to criticize their performance as a total brand.

Not sure if I get that one. If I buy 10 lemons and finally get a good one, not sure how good a review I would give them.

As to their axes, maybe they should get some Chinese axe makers in to show them how to hang them, as the ones that litter the hardware stores these days seem pretty rock solid.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Not sure if I get that one. If I buy 10 lemons and finally get a good one, not sure how good a review I would give them.

As to their axes, maybe they should get some Chinese axe makers in to show them how to hang them, as the ones that litter the hardware stores these days seem pretty rock solid.

No--if you buy 10 lemons and finally get a good one you're in a good position to view them as poor...but if you only try two of their products and they're both different ones and don't try to get them serviced under warranty your sample size is incredibly tiny. More good ones come out of Condor than bad ones. I can say this from personal experience having had hundreds of them pass through my own two hands. And if you get a bad one they'll pay all the costs involved in getting a new one to you so the only thing you potentially lose is time. Lastly they have a 100% satisfaction guarantee so if you're still disappointed with the product after getting a good one they'll fully refund your money--they as the manufacturer, not the retailer.

 

[Hammer67]

I really didn't mean for this to go on and on, but I can't resist commenting on this latest point, which I find absolutely hilarious. I had two consecutive bad experiences with examples of piss poor quality. Should I keep purchasing more of their stuff with the hope that eventually I might get a good one, so that I can then be "qualified to comment on the brand?" Does the fact that I chose to get rid of both items, rather than using the warranty, negate anything I've said? LOL...

Sorry, but the lengths you are continuing to going to, in order to defend a brand that you sell and aren't the least bit objective about, are over the top. I'm not going to continue to debate this. There are lots of folks who know exactly what I'm talking about, and have had similar experiences. A much higher ratio than with any real quality brand of edged tools that I can think of. 'Nuff said.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I really didn't mean for this to go on and on, but I can't resist commenting on this latest point, which I find absolutely hilarious. I had two consecutive bad experiences with examples of piss poor quality. Should I keep purchasing more of their stuff with the hope that eventually I might get a good one, so that I can then be "qualified to comment on the brand?" Does the fact that I chose to get rid of both items, rather than using the warranty, negate anything I've said? LOL...

Sorry, but the lengths you are continuing to going to, in order to defend a brand that you sell and aren't the least bit objective about, are over the top. I'm not going to continue to debate this. There are lots of folks who know exactly what I'm talking about, and have had similar experiences. A much higher ratio than with any real quality brand of edged tools that I can think of. 'Nuff said.

I don't expect you to buy more of them after getting two of them you considered unacceptable. But I do find it surprising that you didn't try getting either of them replaced under warranty. It doesn't negate the fact that yes--you got two bad ones. Very bad luck of the draw, and your odds of getting a bad axe WERE elevated as it's presently the weakest link in their product line, but you speak as though their entire line or all examples of those two items are garbage and it's simply not true. If you reread what I posted carefully you'll see that I stated that your experience is poor justification to comment on the entire brand at a universal level. That doesn't diminish the fact that you got two lemons, but it's just that--two examples, one each, of two different models. Like I said, it was bad luck of the draw. There are countless individuals like myself that are extremely satisfied with Condor products, just as there are those like you that have unfortunately gotten bad ones and written off the brand, usually without trying to take advantage of getting a free replacement.

I honestly take offense at the accusation that I defend the brand only because I sell them. As I already went to great lengths to explain earlier in the thread I carry them because I like them and was a promoter of the brand years before I set up shop. If I don't feel that I can personally stand behind a product I will absolutely not carry it in my shop. I've made plenty of sample purchases over the years from major manufacturers where I've actually decided outright NOT to carry the item. Some notable examples are EZE-LAP diamond steels and Ontario "Demo" slipjoint folders. Want to talk about piss-poor QC? Both the EZE-LAP and Ontario products mentioned above are made in the USA and had some of the absolutely most abysmal QC I've ever seen. Time after time I would receive the Ontarios with overground kicks so the blades would slam into the backspring on closure, burn marks from overheated grinding, sloppy heat treatment that yielded broken back springs and widely varied spring strength...and the EZE-LAP diamond steels had hideously executed handles, and the lenticular tubing that they were made from had tooling grooves in them from the extrusion process that would catch badly on a blade. The mounting of that tubing was also consistently crooked. In other cases I've refused to carry items because I wasn't impressed with the design, such as the Kershaw Camp 10 which I found to have an excessively aggressive texturing to the handle that would cause hot spots in use. If I was in the business purely to make money I could have sold those by the truckload but instead I've passed on the series. Heck--I got a Condor Sabertooth in to trial and I don't care for it at all and won't carry it either. So before you try to call me out as "not being the least bit objective" and "over the top" I suggest you look into my history a bit more.

 

[not2sharp]

This is the kind of thread that is embarassing to all of us. It demonstrates that as much as we enjoy knives and edged tools, we have forgotten what they are all about. These are simple tools that are made for use, they are just bits of steel attached to a handle or haft. Excalibur and light sabers do not exits, at least for the moment , they remain but fantasy. In the real world, when you use a knife, a hammer, an axe, or any other tool it will show evidence of use. There will be scratches and marring, rust and stains, dings and chips, and damaged handles; and it will happen irrespective of the steel used or even the heat treatment. The physical properties of the knife, as it comes out of the box is just a starting point. The real question is how best we can use the tool to accomplish what you may want to accomplish and then we can decide whether the particular edge tool is the best suited for your task. So what if the knife seems dull or sharp, there is no right answer here, the manufacturer has just picked an arbitrary point on the continuum and either way you will end up resharpening the knife, either to put a effective edge on it or to repair the damage from too sharp an edge? We would hope that the manufacturer has placed an optimum edge on the knife but that begs the question, optimum for what use?, and each of us has a unique pattern of use. There was once a time when many manufactures tended to deliver knives without any edge at all and each user was left to put their preferred edge on the tool. Not that it matters, since you will likely want to resharpen the knife to restore your ideal edge before each and every use. No matter how hard the blade steel, the edge remaining after your first work session will differ from the factory fresh edge. As for that axe handle, would it have been that hard to give the wedge a good tap to tighten up that handle?

n2s

 

[Liam Ryan]

So what do you suggest, no more threads discussing displeasure with any knives?
I welcome any and all experiences people have with their purchases, good and bad.

 

[baldtaco-II]

So what do you suggest, no more threads discussing displeasure with any knives? I welcome any and all experiences people have with their purchases, good and bad.

Me too. One of the most frustrating things I ever see on this forum as a whole is when someone announces a displeasure with a knife and it is met with “you should have kept that quiet 'till you have contacted the maker / manufacturer / vendor”. Bollox to all that, let's get it all out in the open and above board. Let's have a clear time-line of what happened and what was done about out it. It gives sellers every chance to establish a solid reputation for consistently doing the right thing, and that same rope will hang those that don't. Conceal nothing. What one man may rise by another will fall. Tough shit. [bit broader rant than just this sub forum, but the thrust is clear]..............................Particular to where this thread is going I can see both sides:.................................. I've bought a number of knives simply because of their potential. It is how much potential I see in them that can make them a bargain. I think there are a good amount of knives that have the potential to be giant slayers if they have this or that done to them. One of the joys of knowing what the hell you're doing is to be able to cherry pick exactly those specimens that offer those opportunities...................................That said, there's a flip-side to that. Whilst that is the way I treat them that isn't what they are being sold as. They aren't being sold like a kit knife that says “requires yay much specialist ability”. They are sold as completed units up and good to go. There's one big outlet over here that sells a lot of Condor stuff. When I read down the comments on a lot of them, apart from the ones that say “awful, bent blade, sent it back”, I often think, “so what, easy fix, if you can't sort that out yourself then go home”. But then I remember that I am being harsh and it is totally unfair to expect the buyer to do that. Buyers like me that shop for potential might, but that's the exception and not the rule. I'm usually so lost in laughter a people that have to send their knives off to be made “shaving sharp”, and dismissive of people that need to send their knives to a spar to have broken tips mended as weedy and ineffectual human beings, that I lose touch with the layman. Upon reflection that's not right. I don't think it would be fair for a plumber to chuckle at me because I'm unwilling to replace all the toilet bowels in my house myself. Mmmm, gives me a bit of a reality check that. Sniping for knives that offer potential may well be what some of us do, but there should be no onus on anyone to do it. Stuff should come right. No “if this” or “if that”, just right. No specialist knowledge required. With that in mind, when I read down that stack of bad comments people have made about Condor at that outlet again I can really see why they are pissed off, and why they snub them.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

This is the kind of thread that is embarassing to all of us. It demonstrates that as much as we enjoy knives and edged tools, we have forgotten what they are all about. These are simple tools that are made for use, they are just bits of steel attached to a handle or haft. Excalibur and light sabers do not exits, at least for the moment , they remain but fantasy. In the real world, when you use a knife, a hammer, an axe, or any other tool it will show evidence of use. There will be scratches and marring, rust and stains, dings and chips, and damaged handles; and it will happen irrespective of the steel used or even the heat treatment. The physical properties of the knife, as it comes out of the box is just a starting point. The real question is how best we can use the tool to accomplish what you may want to accomplish and then we can decide whether the particular edge tool is the best suited for your task. So what if the knife seems dull or sharp, there is no right answer here, the manufacturer has just picked an arbitrary point on the continuum and either way you will end up resharpening the knife, either to put a effective edge on it or to repair the damage from too sharp an edge? We would hope that the manufacturer has placed an optimum edge on the knife but that begs the question, optimum for what use?, and each of us has a unique pattern of use. There was once a time when many manufactures tended to deliver knives without any edge at all and each user was left to put their preferred edge on the tool. Not that it matters, since you will likely want to resharpen the knife to restore your ideal edge before each and every use. No matter how hard the blade steel, the edge remaining after your first work session will differ from the factory fresh edge. As for that axe handle, would it have been that hard to give the wedge a good tap to tighten up that handle?

n2s

So what do you suggest, no more threads discussing displeasure with any knives?
I welcome any and all experiences people have with their purchases, good and bad.

Me too. One of the most frustrating things I ever see on this forum as a whole is when someone announces a displeasure with a knife and it is met with “you should have kept that quiet 'till you have contacted the maker / manufacturer / vendor”. Bollox to all that, let's get it all out in the open and above board. Let's have a clear time-line of what happened and what was done about out it. It gives sellers every chance to establish a solid reputation for consistently doing the right thing, and that same rope will hang those that don't. Conceal nothing. What one man may rise by another will fall. Tough shit. [bit broader rant than just this sub forum, but the thrust is clear]..............................Particular to where this thread is going I can see both sides:.................................. I've bought a number of knives simply because of their potential. It is how much potential I see in them that can make them a bargain. I think there are a good amount of knives that have the potential to be giant slayers if they have this or that done to them. One of the joys of knowing what the hell you're doing is to be able to cherry pick exactly those specimens that offer those opportunities...................................That said, there's a flip-side to that. Whilst that is the way I treat them that isn't what they are being sold as. They aren't being sold like a kit knife that says “requires yay much specialist ability”. They are sold as completed units up and good to go. There's one big outlet over here that sells a lot of Condor stuff. When I read down the comments on a lot of them, apart from the ones that say “awful, bent blade, sent it back”, I often think, “so what, easy fix, if you can't sort that out yourself then go home”. But then I remember that I am being harsh and it is totally unfair to expect the buyer to do that. Buyers like me that shop for potential might, but that's the exception and not the rule. I'm usually so lost in laughter a people that have to send their knives off to be made “shaving sharp”, and dismissive of people that need to send their knives to a spar to have broken tips mended as weedy and ineffectual human beings, that I lose touch with the layman. Upon reflection that's not right. I don't think it would be fair for a plumber to chuckle at me because I'm unwilling to replace all the toilet bowels in my house myself. Mmmm, gives me a bit of a reality check that. Sniping for knives that offer potential may well be what some of us do, but there should be no onus on anyone to do it. Stuff should come right. No “if this” or “if that”, just right. No specialist knowledge required. With that in mind, when I read down that stack of bad comments people have made about Condor at that outlet again I can really see why they are pissed off, and why they snub them.

Good posts all. I do hope that in spite of my defense of the Condor brand no one thinks that I'm aiming for censorship of the problems that folks have experienced. Transparency is everything and It's valuable for multiple perspectives and experiences to be shared to build a total picture of a product. I, also, don't think that problems should be kept quiet until addressed with the manufacturer but I would add that I think that the manufacturer should still be contacted, even if it's just to give feedback as it gives them a chance to make the situation right and informs them of potentially negative trends with the product so they can fix the problem on their end.

The "potential" factor is exactly one of the factors that I think contributes towards Condors being such a good value, but it's true that if you aren't that kind of user then perhaps they aren't a good value for you. I think a lot of disappointment comes from people expecting Condors to be something that they're not--at least not yet. They're not a brand for everyone, though I think they'll start hitting the mark in the QC department pretty soon. I've been amazed at how nice many of the models have been coming lately, but they still have progress to make for sure. It ultimately comes down to what you value most in your tools and what factors you want your money going towards within you intended budget.

 

[Hammer67]

Just a few points of clarification - my expectations regarding the out-of-the-box usability of the tools I purchase has nothing to do with me being a "layman." I know how to re-hang an axe. I know how to sharpen an edge. That's entirely beside the point.

If I find a vintage axe that I know has potential, I relish the process of bringing it back to life, and have done so. I don't relish it when it is a brand-new purchase.

As noted above, if something is being advertised as a "kit" that needs to be completed upon arrival, that's one thing. But if I order a hammer, or a hacksaw, online - I don't expect them to be "kits" if they're not stated as such. I expect them to be complete and ready to use, or they get sent back. I'm not going to dick around with the warranty (unless its a company I've had numerous previous positive experiences with) - I'm going to send it back, get my money refunded and find something else that's better. Why would I have different expectations for a knife or an axe?

Oh, and Not2sharp - I have nothing to be embarrassed by (but you're more than welcome to be, if you want...). I own many tools, and I use them and I know how to properly maintain them. I'm not looking for, nor expecting "shelf queens." But if a tool is just "a bit of steel attached to handle" than why does 42 weed out so many that are unacceptable? Why have quality control at all? According to your perspective, we should just accept whatever crap is shipped our way, and it's our fault if we don't think we should have to spend more time turning it into something usable? Sorry, but that, in my opinion, is an embarrassing attitude. I have no qualms with having high expectations of the things I pay good money for - not expectations that they're "pretty," but expectations that they are truly built for the task they are supposedly intended, and advertised for. Anything less is an argument in favor of mediocrity, or worse.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Just one point of clarification - my expectations regarding the out-of-the-box usability of the tools I purchase has nothing to do with me being a layman. I know how to re-hang an axe. I know how to sharpen an edge. That's entirely beside the point.

As noted above, if something is being advertised as a "kit" that needs to be completed upon arrival, that's one thing. But if I order a hammer, or a hacksaw, online - I don't expect them to be kits if they're not stated as such. I expect them to be complete and ready to use. Why would I have different expectations for a knife or an axe?

Oh, and Not2sharp - I have nothing to be embarrassed by (but you're more than welcome to be, if you want...). I own many tools, and I use them and I know how to properly maintain them. I'm not looking for, nor expecting "shelf queens." But if a tool is just "a bit of steel attached to handle" than why does 42 weed out so many that are unacceptable? Why have quality control at all? According to your perspective, we should just accept whatever crap is shipped our way, and it's our fault if we don't think we should have to spend more time turning it into something usable? Sorry, but that, in my opinion, is an embarrassing attitude. I have no qualms with having high expectations of the things I pay good money for - not expectations that they're "pretty," but expectations that they are truly built for the task they are supposedly intended, and advertised for. Anything less is an argument in favor of mediocrity, or worse.

I largely agree with your post but want to clarify a few things. Firstly, the items I "weed out" are almost always minor cosmetic issues that don't really have much or any impact on function. It's actually pretty dang rare that I send stuff back to Condor for replacement. The ones with cosmetic issues I sell at discount with the blemishes listed specifically for the bargain hunters that don't mind that stuff, and I can tell you they always disappear pretty quickly. Again, it's the transparency factor for me in that I want folks to know what they're getting. Like yourself and some others have mentioned, there's an expectation of the product to arrive free of defects. If there's a defect in an item, even if it's just a cosmetic one, I want folks to know what it is and I don't expect them to pay full price for it. If you're interested in reading about the blemishes on the ones I've got right now the page can be found HERE. Almost all of them right now are either the tang sitting a little proud of the scales (probably about .25 to .5 mm--just enough to feel) due to minor wood shrinkage, a tiny little miniscule gap in the scales, or an item that was damaged in transit.

I don't think that you were being called a layperson, as Not2Sharp was making more of a generalized sweeping comment. A little time with a file, for instance, and you could have thinned out the thick edge of your parang. You may not have expected to have to do that, but it at least sounds (based on my experience) to be a very fixable issue.

I do think that retailers of Condor products should at least let folks know that the items "may require additional elbow grease prior to use." They don't always need it, but they often do--at least a little extra edge polish--and so folks need to be made aware of that.

 

[Hammer67]

I don't think that you were being called a layperson, as Not2Sharp was making more of a generalized sweeping comment. A little time with a file, for instance, and you could have thinned out the thick edge of your parang. You may not have expected to have to do that, but it at least sounds (based on my experience) to be a very fixable issue.

42,

I spend "a little time with a file" all the time. In fact, I spent a chunk of time doing so this morning on a 'hawk and hatchet. I'm not averse to doing so at all - when a tool has become dull through use. Nor am I even put off by needing to touch up an edge on a new tool - I do it all the time, in fact, on all but the most razor-sharp knives that I receive. I did so on the new Husqvarna axe I recently bought, and that doesn't bother me at all - in fact I enjoy it. But touching up an edge on a new knife to my own personal satisfaction, and needing to significantly re-profile a brand new, supposedly "quality" product, are two different things.

The pack golok in question, on the other hand, truly wouldn't have mattered which side of the blade I used. I'm not exaggerating. It shouldn't even have been called an "edged tool." Like I said before, it wouldn't surprise me at all if I'd paid $5 for it. It more than surprised me on a small golok with a $60 price tag.

Like I said, I didn't post any of this because I was looking for a debate. I was merely sharing my two experiences with a particular brand. Take it for what it's worth, or not. I think your suggestion that Condor products come with a disclaimer is a great idea.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Hmmm...wish you had a picture of it! Out of all of the Pack Goloks that have passed through my hands I've never seen one that was even close to being that bad in the edge! I totally get where you're coming form in terms of not expecting to have to thin out a brand new knife, as you weren't given any information prior to purchase that indicated anything to the contrary--and that's exactly why I think that until a new standard is reached across their product lines that retailers should make it clear to their customers that it's a possibility. I don't think that's Condor's job as much as the individual retailers, though, as they're the ones writing the product descriptions for those items.

Condor themselves doesn't have product descriptions--just stats. It's the responsibility of retailers in this case both to know their own product and to provide information to their customers about that product. In the case of companies that do provide descriptions, that's a different story--if they choose to talk up the features they also should make the customer aware of additional work that might have to be done. That's something I actually find irksome about Cold Steel's base line of machetes. They market them as coming with a "utility edge" that will "cut right out of the box" but it's really just a coarse "courtesy grind" intended to make finishing the sharpening job easier. The machetes themselves are decent and many of their newer models are actually truly factory sharpened now, but they really should change their ad copy for the models that aren't.

 

[not2sharp]

So what do you suggest, no more threads discussing displeasure with any knives?
I welcome any and all experiences people have with their purchases, good and bad.

On the contary, discussing kinves is what this place is about. However, injecting noise into the debate does not help to advance the duscussion. I would certainly complain about a warped or cracked handle, or a factured axe poll or blade, but when we get down to such relatively small and easily fixed details as a loose axe handle or a insuffient factory edge it is just whining, and if we do enough of that it will only obscure more relevant information.

n2s

 

[jdk1]

I don't own any Condor's, but have handled a few. The old Golok I used had the edge of a hammer and would bounce off wood. The knife I handled looked and felt good, but the owner said it was much softer than what he was used to (ESEE's), which aren't exactly hard. But the Eco-Survivor machete I played with was fantastic. So, I think Condor has a market niche (maybe 95% finished product requiring some TLC or something like that), but BF forumites are probably the only ones who know. That guy who saves up his money and grabs one off Amazon as a gift for a son or friend seems to be rolling the dice. Hopefully, the QC is better now.

As this thread has become more general, I'd like to add that I think companies have done what business usually does. They did a cost benefit analysis and figured it was cheaper to handle returns than hire QC folks and weed out products. I've received products which a high school co-op worker would have pulled from the production line, including automobiles! The "bean counters" don't care. They often don't know their own product and couldn't care less. They know few people will go through the trouble of returning a product. How many of you have crappy things laying around which you received and said "meh", or it failed after little use, and threw it into a drawer because you didn't need the hassle. Just like a drive-threw forgetting your fries. Do you go back or stop using that drive-threw? No. They lose nothing. As well, things are made to be disposable. It's by design to suit our culture of consumerism. I believe if I have to bother with a defective product (or return for my fries!), I should be compensated. I think it should be the law Then we would see far less junk getting to consumers. Take care.

ETA: I've started to look at things this way: What would have happened had my grandfather been handed this item after purchase?

 

[22-rimfire]

I think satisfaction relates to the price tag of something and you're general sense of what that price tag should reflect in terms of out of the box quality issues. I wasn't so thrilled with my Bushlore, but it sharpened up fairly easy and it is tough as nails. I think of it as sort of a BK-1 with a point. I like the blade shape of the Bushlore. I use mine as a work knife. It does great for this purpose. I can be hard on it, but it didn't cost that much that if I really damage it, I wouldn't loose any sleep over my mis-treatment of the blade.

I brought this up because I bought the 2012 Blade Forums Traditional knife (GEC folder). I was not pleased at all with the sharpness out of the box. I voiced my opinions and many just said.... what's the big deal? Just sharpen it up and move on.... My feeling was that it should have been factory sharp and I expected better from GEC. I sharpened it and moved on. I just got a Pioneer #23 today in the mail and I like it. Big pocket knife, but I see myself carrying it as an EDC. I'll miss my SAK. Thinking about getting a cheapo Vic SAK with a twizzers and tooth pick (my favorite tools) and just carry that too as they are very small. May even have one in the cabinet right now... I have a lot of SAKs that have not been used, but I lean toward the larger 110mm size for a EDC.

I have been wanting to buy a reasonably good small axe, and really didn't want to shell out the $ for a Gransfors Bruks, but I want one of those first. I just don't use an axe much anymore and although I can easily buy the best, I didn't think my use justified the best. I'll probably break down and buy one during one of my visits to Smoky Mt Knife Works just because. I have been staying away from Condor hatchets/axes because of the reviews I have read, but they match my casual interest price range.

I have the Pack Golok and couldn't be more pleased with that short machete. Folks need to understand that the price of the sheath is often built into the price of the Condor machete and it is hard to beat Condor's leather sheaths unless you have a custom made.

Love the Condor Golok machete. That was my very first Condor purchase and have been very pleased. Have two of them. Did not buy the sheath for the second. Also have the Parang machete. Very pleased with them. I recommend them highly.

To go back to my original premise, I do think unless the blade is just a piece of junk (totally dull and handle messed up or loose), I think how much one is pleased is based on their prior expectations and one needs to temper those expectations based on the price.