Another Condor Disappointment...

TheGame said:
I didn't read most of this, because I am in a hurry at the moment. I do have to say of what I did read, this has been the most hate I've seen for Condor in a long time. I've played with a lot of them, and own quite a few of my own. I'm extremely satisfied with the ones I own, and most of the ones I've handled had good edges and fit and finish. Some had minor issues, but nothing that 5-10 minutes of your time wouldn't fix. From small knives up to large machetes, at least 95% have been fantastic bang for your buck. These are working mans tools, they aren't meant to just look pretty and be pristine, so a small issue on the handle, or even the edge shouldn't be an issue. We all know (or should) know how to fix a rough spot on a handle, or a dulled edge...
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This is basicly how I feel about my Condor products also. My Condors have proven to be rough use tools priced to about 1\3 to 1\5 the cost of my other outdoor cutting tools. Seeing that I get 2\3 to 4\5 performance from these inexpensive tools I feel that Condor gives value per dollar for their product. I posted up about a year ago saying how disappointed I was with Wetterlings. I went into a major outdoor chain store to grab a Wett. hatchet\small axe. There were three left out of the last shipment that didn't sell, and I could see why. This reputable maker had shipped these three tools with messed up shafts of splintered wood, and or heads canted off on crazy angles. Really obvious bugger ups that a monkey with one eye would spot as defective. Yet they were shipped. I later picked and chose out of another shipment and I now have an excellent tool. Condor is not the best, nor is it crap. The prices reflect that also. What impresses me currently is Condors serious effort to raise quality control.
 
not2sharp said:
On the contary, discussing kinves is what this place is about. However, injecting noise into the debate does not help to advance the duscussion. I would certainly complain about a warped or cracked handle, or a factured axe poll or blade, but when we get down to such relatively small and easily fixed details as a loose axe handle or a insuffient factory edge it is just whining, and if we do enough of that it will only obscure more relevant information.

n2s
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The point has already been made, but not to you. Please let me try. I have a 2-lb coffee can of wedges (and a dozen assorted handles). A loose head would not slow me down more than a few minutes. I love rebuilding old axes and getting them chopping again.

But name-calling ("whining") is just "noise," as a wise old member once observed. :)

Consumers are absolutely entitled to a functional product. It happens to be the law in all fifty states.

A loose axe head is a safety issue as well. They should never get "out the door."

A dull knife is equally unacceptable, but somehow does not bother me as much. Too many hours sharpening, I guess.

Having said all that, I still would give the source of the defective tool the first shot at making it "right" before going public. (Sorry BTII). That's probably because I would hope others would afford me that courtesy when I screw up.
 
Thomas Linton said:
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A loose axe head is a safety issue as well.
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Precisely why I send those ones back in spite of only "Grade B-ing" ones that are hafted crooked. I'm always concerned someone would try using it before tightening the head back up. At least the crooked ones won't potentially go flying off.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Having said all that, I still would give the source of the defective tool the first shot at making it "right" before going public. (Sorry BTII). That's probably because I would hope others would afford me that courtesy when I screw up.
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Cool. There's no right answer. I don't want to derail the thread so I'll quickly say: Never seen the point of that. What's happened has happened, and if you work in public facing retail rather than it being a matter of minimizing your damages or shame it should be a brilliant opportunity for some excellent PR. I think A G Russell for one does exactly that, and I think better for his outfit because of it. I sang praises last year when a knife deal I had from Holland went pear shaped. I announced it had gone askew. When they addressed it by giving me a significant % discount on a subsequent knife I announced that loud and clear. I think they got better advertising as a result, good. I think outfits only have something to fear if they know they are a team of shysters. If they're any good at what they do they should be able to make it work for them. Anyway, like I said, no right answer. :)
 
baldtaco-II said:
Cool. There's no right answer. I don't want to derail the thread so I'll quickly say: Never seen the point of that. What's happened has happened, and if you work in public facing retail rather than it being a matter of minimizing your damages or shame it should be a brilliant opportunity for some excellent PR. I think A G Russell for one does exactly that, and I think better for his outfit because of it. I sang praises last year when a knife deal I had from Holland went pear shaped. I announced it had gone askew. When they addressed it by giving me a significant % discount on a subsequent knife I announced that loud and clear. I think they got better advertising as a result, good. I think outfits only have something to fear if they know they are a team of shysters. If they're any good at what they do they should be able to make it work for them. Anyway, like I said, no right answer. :)
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Yup! Problems can be just problems...or they can also be opportunities! It all depends on how the retailer looks at it. :)
 
not2sharp said:
On the contary, discussing kinves is what this place is about. However, injecting noise into the debate does not help to advance the duscussion. I would certainly complain about a warped or cracked handle, or a factured axe poll or blade, but when we get down to such relatively small and easily fixed details as a loose axe handle or a insuffient factory edge it is just whining, and if we do enough of that it will only obscure more relevant information.

n2s
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Like you said before, insufficient factory edge is quite subjective. Some may say shaving sharp is what they expect, and some might be happy if it can cut an apple in two. But from what I hear some edges would make a butter knife look sharp. I love working on tools and getting edges just the way I like, and often do so with cold steel tomahawks and such, but even I would be a bit daunted by a really dull larger blade like a golok. So how dull does a knife have to be before someone is allowed to whine about it? With a 10 being hair splitting sharp and a 1 being a completely flat un-ground edge.

As to a loose axe head, I think that was probably the problem with an axe coming from a high moisture climate to a low moisture one. However it may not be as easy a fix as you think. How can you tap a wedge in farther if it is bottomed out in the kerf, and flush with the top of the eye? You can pound some steel wedges in, or cut the handle off and start over with a new handle.

Anyway, I feel I should add, I just checked my favourite online vendor, and the prices on his condor stuff is better than I thought, I may pick up a kephart in the near future and give it a try. (I have a golok and I like it, though haven't used it much. Fit and finish was good)
 
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You will have to explain that a bit more, do you mean put a bunch of screws in the top of the haft? Or use a screw to help pull out the wedge?
 
Thought I'd weigh in even though a good 2/3 of this thread is retarded. I have a Condor Golok which has rarely been used (more of a feel issue than quality) and a Hudson Bay that has seen much use. Sure, the factory edge on both were weak but that's easily tuned up in a matter of minutes. To me, even though someone bizarrely criticized the terminology, these are working tools. I have no issue with using an inexpensive and easily sharpened Condor HB to pop weeds out of the cracks in the asphalt driveway, but I sure as hell have issues doing that with higher end knives. Similarly, I don't use top of the line ammo for shooting cans off of stumps. Right tool for the right job, and most of the time you get what you pay for.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Yup! Problems can be just problems...or they can also be opportunities! It all depends on how the retailer looks at it. :)
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baldtaco-II said:
Ideal attitude mate ;-)
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Great way to look at things. I try to do the same. I like to think of Condor products as "working mans tools for those who like to customize them". I say this because i own 5 condor products. They all needed a little TLC. All some sharpening or edge thinning/re-profiling & one handle is thicker on one side than the other. Haven't fixed that yet as it still functions perfectly. They function excellent now & i am happy they are mine. I will be buying more.

Everyone has different expectations & wants. Even "high end" stuff needs tinkering IMHO, mostly sheaths. If i didn't have the tools to quickly take care of any issues, i may feel differently, IDK.
 
The Condor Woodworker axe I got for my wife is completely top notch.
But I probably don't know quality when I see it, being the sort of slob who buys sub-par tools like CRK knives and other assorted junk. ;)
The 3 Goloks I bought have been good as well, and my brother has beaten the hell out of his. But, once again, I only have junk like the Junglas and Rodent Waki to compare it against, so my opinion probably doesn't count.
 
JCavSD said:
Thought I'd weigh in even though a good 2/3 of this thread is retarded....To me, even though someone bizarrely criticized the terminology, these are working tools. I have no issue with using an inexpensive and easily sharpened Condor HB to pop weeds out of the cracks in the asphalt driveway, but I sure as hell have issues doing that with higher end knives. .
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Nor do I have any issue with using something that is "easily sharpened" - which I actually do all the time, and which I clearly stated. But that wasn't the issue...as I also clearly stated, more than once. That is, if you bothered to actually read this "retarded" thread. But don't let that stop you from weighing in.
 
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It's simple....You purchased a "Cheap" axe & was expecting it to compete with a GransforBruks or Wetterlings & same with their knives, you purchase them "Cheap" & expect them to be like a Busse or ESEE...Look at what these cost next to the "Top" brands, with a little TLC the Condors will function perfect & are a really good deal for the money spent. IF I wanted a "Pretty" knife /axe that was perfect & flawless then I would spend more $$$ & get one of the "TOP" brands. You went Cheap & you got Cheap, as the old saying goes..."You get what you pay for" . Myself I know that the Condors are not perfect but I do know that with a little TLC(very little) they are awesome tools that are hard to beat "FOR THE MONEY SPENT" & Condor has one of the best costumer services going ! I will continue to purchase Condor Tool & Knife. Not meaning to step on anyones toes, I was reading thru these post & this is what it looks like to me...Sorry . Rant over :p Carry on !
 
coaldigger said:
It's simple....You purchased a "Cheap" axe & was expecting it to compete with a GransforBruks or Wetterlings.....
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No, it's not that simple. Maybe you consider a $60 axe to be "cheap," but I don't. And I don't know what I said to indicate that I expected it to be the equivalent of a Wetterlings or a Gransfors. That would be a ridiculous expectation to anyone who knows a thing about axes. Again, as I repeatedly stated - I purchased a different axe in the same price range as the Condor, and the quality difference was night and day. So the whole "you got what you paid for" bit doesn't really hold water at all. Instead, "I got what I paid for" when I purchased the Husqvarna afterward. I got less than what I paid for when I purchased the Condor initially, imo. I really don't know how much more clear I can make it. This has really gotten ridiculous, but I think I've made my points clearly. Feel free to continue misinterpreting them however you wish, and I'm done.
 
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