Another copy from Boker?

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Hackenslash said:
This may seem like a joke to you but have you ever said "Ganzo" three times while looking into a mirror in a dark room on the third floor of a NE facing building during a full moon? ;)
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Next full moon is September 2nd; I've marked my calendar!
 
If I had to guess, Boker is acting as a wholesaler/dealer for this brand, and don't actually own it. In addition to having their own lines, they'll do that and some jobbing sometimes if the profits are attractive. My guess is the took the whole line on without knowing that model was a copy and included, and it turned into a real o_O moment for them. If they were really aiming to copy it or had foreign rights to it, they would've thrown it under the Boker Plus or Boker Magnum lines.
 
Hackenslash said:
Hi. Welcome to Blade Forums. I'm sorry if I've contributed in any way to you feeling attacked for your opinions. I believe anyone can have any opinion that they want, but they're also responsible for the fallout of their opinions. There is a very vocal group here at BF that protest clones, copies, homages and stolen intellectual property. We're vocal because we love the knife hobby and genuinely believe that clone knives are a real threat to the health of the industry. When we perceive a new member supporting clone knives we try to "educate", vigorously if necessary. You'e obviously free to buy any knife you want, but we'll push back if you try to promote clones on BF.

I understand the point you're trying to make concerning hypocrisy, but it really isn't a point. Just because EVERY wrongdoer isn't called out, it doesn't make it acceptable to call NONE of them out. As to your point about BladeHQ/Grindworx; I'll have to investigate. I've done business with BladeHQ in the past and will have to get more information regarding your claim.

By the way, that bold statement you made above is IMO the most accurate post you've made to date. Yes, we are proud addicts here. Guilty as charged.


I know right where this is and get into Waxy every week or so. I'll investigate and report back.

My personal experience with Cobratec is that they're a gun show brand that makes Microtech homages at lesser quality.
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The gun show brand has always been my take, too. They usually have a huge end table with both sides and the end covered and you will also see them at other tables.

I have always wondered if they were a distributor of higher quality Taiwanese or Chinese OTF's that were branded as Cobratec but now I think maybe they are just assembled here in TX.
 
This thread is exactly why I refrain from posting. Never once saw detroit bash boker. Yes calling people hypocrites is frowned upon and poorly received, also talking about what others spend on knives comes off as being envious or maybe jealous. But I’ve yet to see anyone answer his question about the bolster lock patent. I imagine if boker was directly copying protech that protech would stop making knives for boker or at least address the issue. If protech holds the patent and didn’t authorize the use then by all means bash this as a clone or knock off. I mean come on guys we don’t complain about every framelock not giving Chris Reeve his due. Is it not shady of the companies failing to identifying a frame lock as an RIL considering he did create it. Spyderco and others identify it as a RIL but I’ve seen other respectable brands fail to do so. I’m sure I’ll get hate and just to be clear I’ve been around for years but refrain from posting but it’s gotten a little out of hand lately and honestly discourages me from the forum, everyone was happy to jump on Detroit but failed to answer his question about the bolster lock. Clones knockoffs and copies are awful so don’t think I’m justifying them please. The man brings up a valid point, why would people(not all people) still support a business selling knockoffs? If said people believe so strongly that all counterfeits/knockoffs should go then how can you support a company selling them? He shouldn’t have singled out someone for buying from BHQ but it’s a a valid point, if you’re so against knockoffs don’t support a company selling them. What the heck happened to civility?
 
Jdottinger said:
This thread is exactly why I refrain from posting. Never once saw detroit bash boker. Yes calling people hypocrites is frowned upon and poorly received, also talking about what others spend on knives comes off as being envious or maybe jealous. But I’ve yet to see anyone answer his question about the bolster lock patent. I imagine if boker was directly copying protech that protech would stop making knives for boker or at least address the issue. If protech holds the patent and didn’t authorize the use then by all means bash this as a clone or knock off. I mean come on guys we don’t complain about every framelock not giving Chris Reeve his due. Is it not shady of the companies failing to identifying a frame lock as an RIL considering he did create it. Spyderco and others identify it as a RIL but I’ve seen other respectable brands fail to do so. I’m sure I’ll get hate and just to be clear I’ve been around for years but refrain from posting but it’s gotten a little out of hand lately and honestly discourages me from the forum, everyone was happy to jump on Detroit but failed to answer his question about the bolster lock. Clones knockoffs and copies are awful so don’t think I’m justifying them please. The man brings up a valid point, why would people(not all people) still support a business selling knockoffs? If said people believe so strongly that all counterfeits/knockoffs should go then how can you support a company selling them? He shouldn’t have singled out someone for buying from BHQ but it’s a a valid point, if you’re so against knockoffs don’t support a company selling them. What the heck happened to civility?
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I think detroit caught some extra heat due to his posting history in other threads. I don’t want to discuss other posters, so you can research it if you want.

The argument being used has come up many times and is generally used in defense of known clones: how can you bash known cloner A and not bash accused cloner B.

Here’s the problem. We can only know what we know. The reason nobody has answered concerning the Protech lock is probably nobody has the answer.

The same argument has been applied to Benchmade using a Spydie hole on Grips. Somehow, if a company in good standing can be implicated in theft, a confirmed thief, like Ganzo can be elevated in stature...or more likely, Benchmade brought down to Ganzo’s. At the end of the day, we don’t know what went on between Benchmade and Spyderco but it doesn’t change the scumbag status of confirmed cloners.

It’s perfectly valid to question incidents like the Boker/Protech knife that started this thread. It’s not valid to take ambivalence toward the question and turn it into a defense of a cloner. That’s where Detroit took his argument and he went off the rails.

Regarding your comments about the RIL, I think it’s “nice” when manufacturers credit Mr. Reeve but not necessary. The frame lock has become so generalized that it’s now a “type” of knife rather than a unique feature. It’s my understanding that he never wanted to patent it and made it available for others to use. Regardless, the frame lock is now as ubiquitous as the liner lock or back lock and there are no calls to credit the inventors of those.

Another favorite argument used to try to diminish the crimes of cloners is the Buck 110. The defenders cry “what about all the 110 copies” and use that to legitimize homages. The origin of the Buck is over 50 years ago. There is a point where a knife becomes so old, or it’s origins unclear, that it also becomes a “type” of knife.

Defending clones by clouding the issue with suspicions or accusations against others is a logical non-starter. Asking the Boker/Protech question is fine, seizing the question and taking the “but Ganzo” leap doesn’t belong in the discussion.

Anyway, I hope you feel like I’ve answered you respectfully and calmly. I hope you feel encouraged to post more. Usually when you see a poster piled on in a thread, there’s a history that preceded it.
 
Hackenslash said:
The defenders cry “what about all the 110 copies” and use that to legitimize homages.
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It's so funny how you get in your head how all these people are" defending" clones and they are crying to you. You seem somewhat delusional with some of your comments.

By the way, if anyone is "crying" it's you when anybody says Ganzo. I really hope it makes you feel better when Yomama and some of the others like your multi-paragraph essays of nonsense. Where has Craytab been?
 
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Hackenslash said:
I think detroit caught some extra heat due to his posting history in other threads. I don’t want to discuss other posters, so you can research it if you want.

The argument being used has come up many times and is generally used in defense of known clones: how can you bash known cloner A and not bash accused cloner B.

Here’s the problem. We can only know what we know. The reason nobody has answered concerning the Protech lock is probably nobody has the answer.

The same argument has been applied to Benchmade using a Spydie hole on Grips. Somehow, if a company in good standing can be implicated in theft, a confirmed thief, like Ganzo can be elevated in stature...or more likely, Benchmade brought down to Ganzo’s. At the end of the day, we don’t know what went on between Benchmade and Spyderco but it doesn’t change the scumbag status of confirmed cloners.

It’s perfectly valid to question incidents like the Boker/Protech knife that started this thread. It’s not valid to take ambivalence toward the question and turn it into a defense of a cloner. That’s where Detroit took his argument and he went off the rails.

Regarding your comments about the RIL, I think it’s “nice” when manufacturers credit Mr. Reeve but not necessary. The frame lock has become so generalized that it’s now a “type” of knife rather than a unique feature. It’s my understanding that he never wanted to patent it and made it available for others to use. Regardless, the frame lock is now as ubiquitous as the liner lock or back lock and there are no calls to credit the inventors of those.

Another favorite argument used to try to diminish the crimes of cloners is the Buck 110. The defenders cry “what about all the 110 copies” and use that to legitimize homages. The origin of the Buck is over 50 years ago. There is a point where a knife becomes so old, or it’s origins unclear, that it also becomes a “type” of knife.

Defending clones by clouding the issue with suspicions or accusations against others is a logical non-starter. Asking the Boker/Protech question is fine, seizing the question and taking the “but Ganzo” leap doesn’t belong in the discussion.

Anyway, I hope you feel like I’ve answered you respectfully and calmly. I hope you feel encouraged to post more. Usually when you see a poster piled on in a thread, there’s a history that preceded it.
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Yes sir it did and I appreciate your reply and explanation. I was unaware of his previous posts. I was not trying to defend the guy as he can do that himself. Thank you for your time sir.
 
Detroit1980 said:
It's so funny how you get in your head how all these people are" defending" clones and they are crying to you. You seem somewhat delusional with some of your comments.

By the way, if anyone is "crying" it's you when anybody says Ganzo. I really hope it makes you feel better when Yomama and some of the others like your multi-paragraph essays of nonsense. Where has Craytab been?
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There is a place here for these kind of personal jabs at fellow members and this isn't it.
 
Detroit1980 said:
It's so funny how you get in your head how all these people are" defending" clones and they are crying to you. You seem somewhat delusional with some of your comments.

By the way, if anyone is "crying" it's you when anybody says Ganzo. I really hope it makes you feel better when Yomama and some of the others like your multi-paragraph essays of nonsense. Where has Craytab been?
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This certainly looks like a hit dog hollering.
 
danbot said:
There is a place here for these kind of personal jabs at fellow members and this isn't it.
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Where am I supposed to go? I had noticed my name was brought up once again and there seemed no better place to say something than in here.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
This certainly looks like a hit dog hollering.
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Not really lol. You can call it a hollering but there's no guilt here. He had just brought up my name and I've been accused multiple times of defending Ganzo but I never did. I bought 1 years ago which is what got me into knives in general.
 
danbot said:
Oh, it is a magical place! But it is "not for the faint of heart".
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Believe me I can handle a lot lol. I've been insulted by more people on these forums than I have on all the forums I've been on put together. The sad thing is that some of you people seem to think your some kind of "heroes" to the knife community as you insult others.
 
Detroit1980 said:
Believe me I can handle a lot lol. I've been insulted by more people on these forums than I have on all the forums I've been on put together. The sad thing is that some of you people seem to think your some kind of "heroes" to the knife community as you insult others.
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Lol! :rolleyes:
Trashing Ganzo is not an insult towards other for members.
 
Detroit1980 said:
It's so funny how you get in your head how all these people are" defending" clones and they are crying to you. You seem somewhat delusional with some of your comments.

By the way, if anyone is "crying" it's you when anybody says Ganzo. I really hope it makes you feel better when Yomama and some of the others like your multi-paragraph essays of nonsense. Where has Craytab been?
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Oh, I'm right here watching the fun! Do tell us more about how delusional we are!
 
Detroit1980 said:
Believe me I can handle a lot lol. I've been insulted by more people on these forums than I have on all the forums I've been on put together. The sad thing is that some of you people seem to think your some kind of "heroes" to the knife community as you insult others.
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Hi. My name is Tim and I'm a knifeaholic. You nailed it when you accused me of being addicted to knives. I don't think we got off to a good start, so I'd like to reset and backtrack a little. We've had some interchanges that were a little heated. I confirm that nothing I've said was meant against you personally; I've only objected to your stands, your arguments and your logic. Oddly enough, I don't always disagree with your logic, merely how it's applied.

I'd enjoy discussing your general opinion regarding clones and counterfeits. but that needs a thread of its own. This thread is about a Boker/Protech knife.

I don't know how to respond to your claim concerning the Protech lock mechanism; could you provide some documentation along with your claim so it can be read and considered? I've already mentioned that I need to look into your claims about BladeHQ/Grindworx...but likewise, you've provided no documentation to support your claim. It's not much help to throw out claims and statements without anything to back them up. This hearkens to the adage about a pigeon and a chess board.

I don't want to sustain a flame war with you; rather agree to disagree. I wish you well with your knives and hope you hang out around Blade Forums as much as you wish. This is really a great place with lots of members who know more about knives than I ever will. I hope you'll consider the opinions of those outspoken against clones and counterfeits. It's a very sensitive subject for many here, but not without reason.

If you'd like to keep flaming, I hope to meet you in battle in a distant land where the whine flows like root beer and the cheese is pungent and green.

Safe travels and enjoy your knives. Best wishes to you.
 
Hackenslash said:
Hi. My name is Tim and I'm a knifeaholic. You nailed it when you accused me of being addicted to knives. I don't think we got off to a good start, so I'd like to reset and backtrack a little. We've had some interchanges that were a little heated. I confirm that nothing I've said was meant against you personally; I've only objected to your stands, your arguments and your logic. Oddly enough, I don't always disagree with your logic, merely how it's applied.

I'd enjoy discussing your general opinion regarding clones and counterfeits. but that needs a thread of its own. This thread is about a Boker/Protech knife.

I don't know how to respond to your claim concerning the Protech lock mechanism; could you provide some documentation along with your claim so it can be read and considered? I've already mentioned that I need to look into your claims about BladeHQ/Grindworx...but likewise, you've provided no documentation to support your claim. It's not much help to throw out claims and statements without anything to back them up. This hearkens to the adage about a pigeon and a chess board.

I don't want to sustain a flame war with you; rather agree to disagree. I wish you well with your knives and hope you hang out around Blade Forums as much as you wish. This is really a great place with lots of members who know more about knives than I ever will. I hope you'll consider the opinions of those outspoken against clones and counterfeits. It's a very sensitive subject for many here, but not without reason.

If you'd like to keep flaming, I hope to meet you in battle in a distant land where the whine flows like root beer and the cheese is pungent and green.

Safe travels and enjoy your knives. Best wishes to you.
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If any documentation is provided, I want you to provide some documentation on the patent Protech has on the bolster mechanism. That's the only documentation that really needs to be provided based on this thread alone. It's a fact that Blade HQ and Grindworx are owned be the same company. Just call them and I'm sure they will tell you themselves.

To be clear once again, I have no problem with Blade HQ, Grindworx, Boker or Cobratec. I was just saying that if the OP believes that the so called "copied" product is being sold by Grindworx then he shouldn't be buying from Blade HQ or he is a hypocrite. Is it that hard to understand?
 
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