Another questionable situation

Danbo

Danbo

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I ordered a knife from a well known bladesmith at the Blade show 2001. The details were all worked out; I provided a killer piece of amber stag(carver) and the price was locked in. The knife was to have a 6" spear/droppoint blade forged out of W2 with visual temper line, nickel silver single guard and buttcap with a few colored spacers between the guard and the stag. No fancy filework or engraving. Price was $500 delivered at the 2002 Blade show. A couple months before the Blade show, I called to check on the status and was told that he was working on the knife right then and that he was going to be on schedule for the show.

Zoom forward to Blade show 2002. I am anxiously looking forward to seeing and taking delivery of this knife and have my money in my pocket ready. Said maker calls me over to his table, and says that the knife is not quite done. Slight disappointment on my part, but I am used to knifemakers being a little late. I understand completely, since I am a hobbyist knifemaker myself and cannot get myself to finish ONE. The guy says that he brought the knife to show me, as it is about %90 done. Sure enough, this knife is close to being done, and is drop dead gorgeous! I mention that fact, and he says, "is it worth $600?" I step back a little and say in a diplomatic voice that we had a price set. He gives me some mumbo jumbo about how much extra work he had to go through and stuff like that, and says again, "how about $550?". Now, I am in a pickle. If I continue holding my ground, he will be pissed off and go home and just slap the thing together angrily. Remember, I provided a piece of stag that cost me $50. Rather than burn any bridges, I begrudgingly agree to the $550 price. I pay the man cash(before I spent it elsewhere at the Blade show) but insist on a receipt. I get a receipt that says I paid $550 for the knife on a certain day and that the knife will be delivered in a couple weeks.

About a month after the Blade show, I call to check the status. He says that the knife will be finished in a couple days, and that I will have it in time for my Birthday on July 6th.

Today, I receive the knife in the mail. It is super gorgeous, as expected. I have posted 2 pictures on the Gallery. Go check it out.

Here is the sticky thing. Inside the box is a note that says he hopes that I like the knife since he put some extra work into it and included an invoice for $600! The note also said to call him when I get the knife and to have a happy birthday. Now he is trying to gouge me for another $50? Homey dont think so! I have yet to call him, as I dont really know what to say to him. On one hand, the knife about as clean and nice as anything I have ever seen. But, on the other hand, every time I look at the knife, I think of how he gouged me with the "Bait and Switch" treatment. If I sent the knife back, does anybody think I will get my $50 back that I paid for the stag. Not to mention the cost of the shipping. Opinions please.
 
Danbo,
It sounds like you got yourself a very nice knife,I'll have to look at the pics.:) You are not wrong,a fixed price is exactly that.Unless you have asked for extra work after the price was set it should be a dead issue.It sounds like you have handled this with more tact than I might have.If it was me I'm pretty sure there would be no futher monies being sent or orders for knives for that matter.
 
Danbo~ from 'sitting on the fence' point of view, I say keep the knife and tell the maker the deal was sealed at USD$550. You have an official receipt saying you paid in full at USD$550 and he will have NO CHOICE but to honour it. He has no case against you as far as the deal is concerned but only his reputation that is hanging in the balance. Teach him a lesson for this sort of "Bait and Switch" business practises does not work anymore.

Just me 2 cents.

Eric Wong.
 
Well, I looked at your pics, and the knife sure is pretty. Its so nice that maybe you would have ordered from him again? Well, I bet he just blew any chance of you ever ordering another knife from him.

Thats pretty crappy for him to try and pull that crap on you. I would send his invoice back to him, and a copy of your ticket where you paid your 550....even though the original price was 500....and tell him where he can stuff the rest.

Is he a member of the ABS? If he is and continues any more crap, maybe you can present your case to them....I bet they take a dim view of shady business practices such as his.
 
Oh yes, that is a very nice knife indeed..it's too bad he tainted it by screwing you over though.

This is not a questionable situation at all, and you should let him know that he definitely lost any future business from you, and most probably from several other people as well, all over $50.
At this point, even if he did refund you $50 and tried to make it right, it won't change the fact that he tried to milk more money out of you when he had the upper hand.
I hope it was worth it to him..

I myself can't afford knives as nice as that one, but if I could, I would not under any circumstances be buying one from him, at any price.
 
I had a conversation with a machinist one day when the subject of "fixed pricing" came up. This guy is responsible for quoting multi million dollar jobs. I painted a scenario for him. If someone like Harley Davidson put in an order for twenty thousand footpegs (just for an example), and you quote the job at 40,000 bucks (again, just an example) - then had a cost overrun, what happens? He told me that in a case like that the machine shop simply eats the disaster, so needless to say, they try not to let that happen very often. And of course it doesn't. When a job is quoted and accepted, the materials are ordered right away - thus insuring the price point. Manhours are figured on the current (and future) payscale, etc, etc. Another thing they do is build a few of these footpegs prior to the quote so they can figure out time-per-piece, shipping, packaging, tool wear and replacement cost (like drill bits), etc. Basic math really. In all of this fellow's days as a senior machinist, he hasn't underquoted anything.

What does this have to do with your situation? Well, I'd say someone possibly underquoted the job. As much as that sucks it cannot be laid in "Harley Davidson's" lap (again, HD is just an example). For they simply accepted the quote. They had no control over additional manhours, more expensive tooling, higher priced metal alloys, etc. Nope. They simply signed a contract for strictly defined terms, then went on to hold up their end of the bargain.

There's always two sides to every story, but from what is published here (so far) - it looks like you held up your end of the bargain. A cost overrun, cruddy thing that might be, is not your fault and totally beyond your control.
 
Danbo, that knife is yours, bought and paid for.Do not send him the $50 or he will be doing this to other people. It was nice enough of you to go up to $550 after you had sealed a deal. Let him learn how to figure his pricing right in the first place or tell you at the beginning that the price may go up.
 
If you send him the $50 he might send you another invoice for another $50 next month. I wouldn't put it past him.
 
$550 cash + $50 carver = $600. $600 invoice...paid in full.
This deal is completed.

Very nice knife, one of the nicest stag carver handled knives I've seen in quite a while. Beautiful stag and blade to handle balance looks perfect.

I don't really see what "extra work" he did. No added details..filework, extra materials.

I wonder what he would have said at the show if you had answered "How about $400?"
 
You agreed on a price of $500 with your stag [by the way, thats a gorgeous piece of stag]. You see him at Blade and agree to a FINAL price of $550.00. The knife arrives with an invoice saying $600.

I would throw the invoice back in the box, grab your receipt and drop the Maker a line. Tell him the agreed upon finished price was $550.00 and thats been paid in full. If he does not like it, that is just too damn bad. He is very lucky you did agree to move from the original figure of $500 to $550 and probably did so only because it was your stag involved. If all the materials belonged to the Maker, he could/should have been left trying to sell a knife for "whatever" at the next show he attended. When you commission a Maker and agree upon a price, if nothing is added or changed, the AGRRED price must honored.
 
Danbo, firstly, you are a gentleman to NOT mention the maker in the first instance.

Secondly, you got your knife and paid an extra $50 for it, the deal is done. Ring him up, be polite and say, "mate, we agreed on the $550, so thats that cobber..."...if he sqeels at that, tell him I am gonna send my damn Blue Heeler around to bite his forge to bits!;)

I am off to the gallery to see this thing!
 
Hi Dan,

Call him and thank him for the $600 receipt.

As this is the "replacement" cost that you will ask from your insurance company if something were to happen to the knife.

Follow up with, "and to think (insert friend. family member, etc's name here) said he/she thought you were trying to get another $50 out of me.

Tell him you stuck up for him saying only a low life bast*** would try and do something like that.

Then tell him how much you like the knife.

If that doesn't work, mail him a copy of his receipt and ask the question..."Is this your handwriting"?

Either way you don't owe him any money.

Let this serve as a lesson to you. You violated two rules of custom knife buying:

First, you didnt get the "agreed to price" in writing.

Second, and this is the worst mistake...You paid him in full with cash before you received the knife....NEVER EVER DO THIS.

Enjoy the knife and Happy Birthday.
 
...and if Les' technique does not work, I still have that mad ass bastid heeler you can borrow...he's angry!:mad:

Hapy birthday and great looking knife!
 
Fixed price is a fixed price. It makes no sense someone wanting to gouge you like that.

I feel bad for you that your enjoyment of the knife will be tainted by this deal though.

On two ocassions, I was severely "dissed" by two VERY well known makers of whose work I had the greatest admiration. Had cash in hand to buy one of them once. Probably would have been a good investment considering the knife...but the ownership of that knife would have given me an ill feeling everytime I looked at it.

I took my money elsewhere
 
Tell him to go F$ck himself.A mans word especially in a business sense
is his bond.
Sorry and it is a shame he had to "taint" such a beautiful knife with such "shady" tactics.Again I'm sorry I am so blunt.Deal with this $hit all the time in my business.
 
I would photocopy both the receipt that you have, and the invoice. Then cross-out where the invoice shows that you owe another $50, and then send both copies back to him.
 
First off, beautiful knife.

What a stupid thing to do. What is this maker thinking. Screwing around with his reputation over $100.00(the original $50.00 price increas and the extra $50.00 he is still looking for). For the sake of good customer relations he should have sold it to you for the first agrred upon price. If he ended up only breaking even that is a lesson learned.

You don't owe him anything.
 
Danbo,
I was right there during this whole sorry affair. You discussed with me what was going on at every turn, and I told you that I didn't like the smell of it. You are too trusting of a fellow. Just because you are honest, doesn't mean the everyone is. An ABS Mastersmith rating indicates that an individual is a great knifemaker, not a great human being. If this guy continues treating his customers this way, he won't be in business long. Even so, I'll bet that this little episode has cost him at least 50 future orders. Get rid of the knife. Every time you look at it you will just get upset. :mad:
Racer Roy


KNOWLEDGE THAT IS NO SHARED IS LOST
 
I'd send him a complete copy of this thread and ask if for $50. he would mind you metioning his name on the forums.:rolleyes:
 
This situation just sucks big time. Short version from my viewpoint - you don't owe him jack.

I do freelance graphics work every once in a while and when I start a job, I add up my hours, materials, and other factors involved, and then "pad" the figure just a little. That way, if all goes well, I can tell the client it will cost them less in the end and they will be happy. On the other hand, if something goes terribly wrong, I will have the extra leeway since I padded the initial figure a little. Even if something totally disastrous happened (server crashes, corrupted files, etc.) I NEVER EVER go over the agreed upon price. All that said, it really pays to do your homework and research all the factors involved to make the inital quote something you can live with when the work is done.

I say you don't owe him $hit. And if I were you, I'd tell him that flat out, and not have any regrets about it. If I were in your shoes, I would have told him the deal was for $500 and not gone a penny more. You showed real restraint handling the situation like you did. You were a real gentleman in going ahead and renegotiating the price with him - that went above and beyond. You don't owe him anything.

:grumpy: :grumpy: :grumpy: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
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