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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Any chance of a Camillus megafolder?
- Thread starter Jim March
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 22, 1998
- Messages
- 687
Great news, Phil! I'm looking forward to hearing more about your new lock. Megafolders Rule!
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Ciao
Mike Melone
"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson
[This message has been edited by MM (edited 06 October 1999).]
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Ciao
Mike Melone
"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson
[This message has been edited by MM (edited 06 October 1999).]
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 3,018
Great news indeed.
Phil, Will, you're going to have to do something to stand out from the Sifu. That's now the one to beat. It's vulnerable in four areas:
1) Lock smoothness - the Rolling Lock is fair for smoothness, great for strength. Megafolders help smooth out ANY lock...but smoothness will always be an issue.
2) Blade heft. REKAT is doing .12" blade width. That's OK, but it can be topped. In my view, the "first megafolder" was the old Gerber Parabellum, not because it had a 4.5" blade, but because it was 3/8ths thick at the spine. BEEFY. Do that in a 5.5", it'll be an absolute MUST-OWN.
3) Blade length. 5.45" is OK; it matches Texas's sub-5.5" rules. But...some people don't give a flip, others are in California and don't face *any* limits. 6" would be cool...7" or even 8" would absolutely ROCK.
4) Grip type. If you were to "tune" the grip to an FMA-style with emphasis on the middle through pinkie fingers, you could make the back half of the grip extra-fat. That in turn would allow double-edge sharpening of the outermost 2" or 3" of blade. And NOW we're talkin'!
One last detail: the REKAT Escalator is out of production due to low demand. In my opinion, the problem was they were trying to market a 3" blade defensive knife. I personally had pretty much no interest. If that blade hump had been put on a megafolder it would have been more effective and a better seller.
In other words, consider licensing that hump from REKAT. They ain't doing anything with it!
Jim March
Phil, Will, you're going to have to do something to stand out from the Sifu. That's now the one to beat. It's vulnerable in four areas:
1) Lock smoothness - the Rolling Lock is fair for smoothness, great for strength. Megafolders help smooth out ANY lock...but smoothness will always be an issue.
2) Blade heft. REKAT is doing .12" blade width. That's OK, but it can be topped. In my view, the "first megafolder" was the old Gerber Parabellum, not because it had a 4.5" blade, but because it was 3/8ths thick at the spine. BEEFY. Do that in a 5.5", it'll be an absolute MUST-OWN.
3) Blade length. 5.45" is OK; it matches Texas's sub-5.5" rules. But...some people don't give a flip, others are in California and don't face *any* limits. 6" would be cool...7" or even 8" would absolutely ROCK.
4) Grip type. If you were to "tune" the grip to an FMA-style with emphasis on the middle through pinkie fingers, you could make the back half of the grip extra-fat. That in turn would allow double-edge sharpening of the outermost 2" or 3" of blade. And NOW we're talkin'!
One last detail: the REKAT Escalator is out of production due to low demand. In my opinion, the problem was they were trying to market a 3" blade defensive knife. I personally had pretty much no interest. If that blade hump had been put on a megafolder it would have been more effective and a better seller.
In other words, consider licensing that hump from REKAT. They ain't doing anything with it!
Jim March
All good ideas as usual Jim,however they`re presented assuming that the "knife fighting" market is their target. I think CS and Rekat have that covered pretty well and I`m not sure the "pure fighter" market is very large. What the Vaq. and Sifu *aren`t* is good all around HD using knives. IMHO a good sturdy flat ground,drop point mega folder with a bank vault strong lock and no bells,whistles or humpy things on it would be great boone to hikers,sportsmen *and* defensive knife users. A nice deep finger groove and maybe a pseudo guard would allow all the vigorous stabbing and chopping maneuvers one might want but it`s general configuration would be condusive to camp chores and everyday tasks. It might also be less shocking to the general public and LEOs. Of course if they wanna make a mega fighter *also* that would be cool. Maybe they`d be interested in building a 8" folding Outsider!
Marcus
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
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- 3,018
Marcus, you're right. A well-built big folder will still be a good fighter even if utility isn't overlooked, or even if utility is emphasised.
Two points then: improve on the Sifu's "blade heft" - go thicker. And whatever you do, set up the grip so that you cannot have a "slip-up type accident" on a hard-target stab. Even if you're mainly targetting the heavy utility market, you still want that. Fingergrooves all the way up are overkill, granted.
Jim
Two points then: improve on the Sifu's "blade heft" - go thicker. And whatever you do, set up the grip so that you cannot have a "slip-up type accident" on a hard-target stab. Even if you're mainly targetting the heavy utility market, you still want that. Fingergrooves all the way up are overkill, granted.
Jim
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 3,018
Marcus, that's about it.
The *only* other concession to combat that would be really neat would be solid retention for the back of the pinkie. What I mean is, if you let go with the thumb and forefinger and then do a hard smash/chop, the knife should resist "forward motion" just like the forefinger notch will cause the knife to resist "backwards motion" in the hand on a stab.
That "pinkie retention" is the key to the FMA grip style and it's Asian relatives. Done right, it won't screw up "utility holds" at all.
Jim
The *only* other concession to combat that would be really neat would be solid retention for the back of the pinkie. What I mean is, if you let go with the thumb and forefinger and then do a hard smash/chop, the knife should resist "forward motion" just like the forefinger notch will cause the knife to resist "backwards motion" in the hand on a stab.
That "pinkie retention" is the key to the FMA grip style and it's Asian relatives. Done right, it won't screw up "utility holds" at all.
Jim
The grip needs at least two comfortable grip positions, towards the fron for control, and towards the back for reach,hacking..the Sifu has three, so does the VG..I don't mind the finger grooves as much as I thought I would, and I think I would at least have two index grooves. That is just me though...Maybe a little pinky hook on the end.
The Sifu is sweet Jim...it is light, balances on the first groove, and moves fast. I think you are going to be really happy with it. I am not much ofa knife fighting person, My state permits my carrying a gun, so I don't rely on a knife so much for defense. If it is going to be a while till you get yours Jim, I'll send you down mine to play with..
..
I think the BFF1 should lean towards the utility side of the scale...a 5.5" knife by itself would be a fairly effective weapon in a pinch. I want something I can hack with and be abusive to with out worrying about breakage. I ain't worried about the sifu busting too much, but I think I would feel more secure hacking thing up with a thicker blade.
YeK
The Sifu is sweet Jim...it is light, balances on the first groove, and moves fast. I think you are going to be really happy with it. I am not much ofa knife fighting person, My state permits my carrying a gun, so I don't rely on a knife so much for defense. If it is going to be a while till you get yours Jim, I'll send you down mine to play with..
I think the BFF1 should lean towards the utility side of the scale...a 5.5" knife by itself would be a fairly effective weapon in a pinch. I want something I can hack with and be abusive to with out worrying about breakage. I ain't worried about the sifu busting too much, but I think I would feel more secure hacking thing up with a thicker blade.
YeK
Jim March, I noticed that you justify an only-in-California model by saying that we have 17 million people. That is certainly true. We also have another 14 million people to go with them.
Total population is around 31 million.
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- Joined
- Nov 22, 1998
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Personally, like Jim March, I'd like to see this go towards a more radical blade. 7" would be awesome. I'd also like to have it sharped for at least part of the back edge so as to be able to use some Keating style back cuts. How about a folding bowie? Nice hefty blade. Proven fighting design. I dont need a utility megafolder. I like a 3.5"-4" blade for a utility folder. And if I need to do any chopping I'll use a fixed blade. Or better yet, an axe.
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Ciao
Mike Melone
"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson
------------------
Ciao
Mike Melone
"Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
"One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson
- Joined
- Nov 11, 1998
- Messages
- 1,714
I was wondering how long it would be untill someone brought up "Folding Bowies"!
I must admit to a bit of a fetish for them myself.
A 7" blade would would give us about an 8" to 8.5" handle. Maybe a little too much for me!
At these sizes I personally would lean towards an even bigger blade in a smaller handle. How about a 9.5" blade in a 5" handle? Draws from kydex carry rig as a 5" then "opens" to a 9.5". Of course we would need yet another lock design to lock it TIGHT both open & closed. Designing handle shape for good grip ergonomics would be difficult as blade must be covered in the "closed" position and handle shape must "go both ways!"
Don't get me started!
I've got to focus on the BFF1 for now.
Thanks for all the continued input & support guys!
I must admit to a bit of a fetish for them myself.
A 7" blade would would give us about an 8" to 8.5" handle. Maybe a little too much for me!
At these sizes I personally would lean towards an even bigger blade in a smaller handle. How about a 9.5" blade in a 5" handle? Draws from kydex carry rig as a 5" then "opens" to a 9.5". Of course we would need yet another lock design to lock it TIGHT both open & closed. Designing handle shape for good grip ergonomics would be difficult as blade must be covered in the "closed" position and handle shape must "go both ways!"
Don't get me started!
I've got to focus on the BFF1 for now.
Thanks for all the continued input & support guys!
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 3,018
There IS a way to get a true folder with a grip that "shortens" after the blade opens.
It's a primitive yet effective lock whereby the grip itself "folds back in on itself" and jams against the blade tang. It's an old design long in the public domain.
Done right, you could have an 8" blade with a 9.5" grip, but 4" of "skinny grip" dissapears back into the blade channel and you get an actual 5.5" grip. Your own grip strength reinforces the lock.
BUT when closed, there's no blade exposed at all.
It's *ideal* for major megafolders...it takes a funky "two step" to deploy, sorta like a Balisong except it isn't one. All the ones I've seen were cheapos.
Jim
It's a primitive yet effective lock whereby the grip itself "folds back in on itself" and jams against the blade tang. It's an old design long in the public domain.
Done right, you could have an 8" blade with a 9.5" grip, but 4" of "skinny grip" dissapears back into the blade channel and you get an actual 5.5" grip. Your own grip strength reinforces the lock.
BUT when closed, there's no blade exposed at all.
It's *ideal* for major megafolders...it takes a funky "two step" to deploy, sorta like a Balisong except it isn't one. All the ones I've seen were cheapos.
Jim
- Joined
- Aug 27, 1999
- Messages
- 4,531
As far as blade shape is concerned, I think that the best compromise between utility value and value as a weapon is the Scramasax (sax)blade It has a straight edge which is easy to sharpen in the field and it has a fine point useful as a weapon and for opening packages or other point sensitive work. The Lynn Griffith "Sniper" is a good example of this shape. In a flat or slightly hollow grind, this would be great
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 3,018
Is this the same blade shape as a "Warncliffe"?
If so, that's not a crazy idea. The only problem is, it's a great blade shape for "fine control" but...anything this big WILL be more of a "brute force approach", utility OR combat. In other words, the purposes of that blade shape and a megafolder "clash".
If I'm not understanding your blade shape concept, please clarify.
Jim
If so, that's not a crazy idea. The only problem is, it's a great blade shape for "fine control" but...anything this big WILL be more of a "brute force approach", utility OR combat. In other words, the purposes of that blade shape and a megafolder "clash".
If I'm not understanding your blade shape concept, please clarify.
Jim
- Joined
- Aug 27, 1999
- Messages
- 4,531
The shape which is now for some reason called Wharncliffe has been known for a thousand years as a scramasax (sax)The people who were commonly associated with these blades were called Saxons. There are extant examples of knives with a blade length of approximately one foot up to Viking swords with a blade of 32-34" Museum Replicas has reproduced several types of both.
Point control-is-always-important for a weapon with a point. The Sax point is strong, easy to control and having a straight edge from heel to point means that even a relatively unskilled person with relatively primitive equipment can sharpen it. I have one that was made in Sheffield, England in the 1830's. After all this time, it now looks like a slight hawkbill, but after 169 years its still serviveable. Look carefully at a picture of the Lynn Griffith "Sniper." This is the only picture that I know of that is easily accessible, but I am sure there are many others. You will see that the point is well designed for thrusting and chopping and slicing. Large or small, unless you are an extreme specialist. They are the best all around blade shape for most uses. I don't see the Sax shape as being contraindicated for a big folder. I have been using one for a long time and they really grow on you because they are so efficient. To be in continous use for a thousand years says something about them. You might ask Hank Reinhart at Museum Replicas what he thinks. I would like to hear your thoughts after using one for a while. I think you would like them too.
Another way to look at it is to see them as having all the strengths of a Sheepsfoot, but with a useful stabbing point
[This message has been edited by fudo (edited 19 October 1999).]
[This message has been edited by fudo (edited 19 October 1999).]
Point control-is-always-important for a weapon with a point. The Sax point is strong, easy to control and having a straight edge from heel to point means that even a relatively unskilled person with relatively primitive equipment can sharpen it. I have one that was made in Sheffield, England in the 1830's. After all this time, it now looks like a slight hawkbill, but after 169 years its still serviveable. Look carefully at a picture of the Lynn Griffith "Sniper." This is the only picture that I know of that is easily accessible, but I am sure there are many others. You will see that the point is well designed for thrusting and chopping and slicing. Large or small, unless you are an extreme specialist. They are the best all around blade shape for most uses. I don't see the Sax shape as being contraindicated for a big folder. I have been using one for a long time and they really grow on you because they are so efficient. To be in continous use for a thousand years says something about them. You might ask Hank Reinhart at Museum Replicas what he thinks. I would like to hear your thoughts after using one for a while. I think you would like them too.
Another way to look at it is to see them as having all the strengths of a Sheepsfoot, but with a useful stabbing point
[This message has been edited by fudo (edited 19 October 1999).]
[This message has been edited by fudo (edited 19 October 1999).]