Any chance of a Camillus megafolder?

Discussion in 'Camillus Collector's Forum' started by Jim March, Jan 25, 1999.

  1. KenN

    KenN

    354
    Jan 26, 1999
    Excellent news! Thanks for the update Phil!
    If and when you are allowed to seep out some specific(preliminary) specs. for the BFF1, I'm sure there'll be a ton of good feedback for you.

    Ken
     
  2. Tom Carey

    Tom Carey

    811
    Oct 10, 1998
    This is great news! I have been following this thread for quite sometime now and am very interesting in a mega folder. They will just love that at work! [​IMG]

    Regards,

    Tom Carey
     
  3. Marcus

    Marcus

    622
    Oct 4, 1998
    Wahoo! Thanks for the great news Phil! We`ll all be waiting with baited breath for the next update. You`re the man! [​IMG] Marcus
     
  4. memnoch

    memnoch

    Oct 7, 1998
    I NEED ONE OF THESE!!!

    a CPM 420v 5+ inch blade?!?!!?

    i shall have one of these. I shall.
     
  5. MM

    MM

    682
    Nov 22, 1998
    Great news, Phil! I'm looking forward to hearing more about your new lock. Megafolders Rule!

    ------------------
    Ciao

    Mike Melone

    "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
    "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson




    [This message has been edited by MM (edited 06 October 1999).]
     
  6. Jim March

    Jim March KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 7, 1998
    Great news indeed.

    Phil, Will, you're going to have to do something to stand out from the Sifu. That's now the one to beat. It's vulnerable in four areas:

    1) Lock smoothness - the Rolling Lock is fair for smoothness, great for strength. Megafolders help smooth out ANY lock...but smoothness will always be an issue.

    2) Blade heft. REKAT is doing .12" blade width. That's OK, but it can be topped. In my view, the "first megafolder" was the old Gerber Parabellum, not because it had a 4.5" blade, but because it was 3/8ths thick at the spine. BEEFY. Do that in a 5.5", it'll be an absolute MUST-OWN.

    3) Blade length. 5.45" is OK; it matches Texas's sub-5.5" rules. But...some people don't give a flip, others are in California and don't face *any* limits. 6" would be cool...7" or even 8" would absolutely ROCK.

    4) Grip type. If you were to "tune" the grip to an FMA-style with emphasis on the middle through pinkie fingers, you could make the back half of the grip extra-fat. That in turn would allow double-edge sharpening of the outermost 2" or 3" of blade. And NOW we're talkin'!

    One last detail: the REKAT Escalator is out of production due to low demand. In my opinion, the problem was they were trying to market a 3" blade defensive knife. I personally had pretty much no interest. If that blade hump had been put on a megafolder it would have been more effective and a better seller.

    In other words, consider licensing that hump from REKAT. They ain't doing anything with it!

    Jim March
     
  7. Marcus

    Marcus

    622
    Oct 4, 1998
    All good ideas as usual Jim,however they`re presented assuming that the "knife fighting" market is their target. I think CS and Rekat have that covered pretty well and I`m not sure the "pure fighter" market is very large. What the Vaq. and Sifu *aren`t* is good all around HD using knives. IMHO a good sturdy flat ground,drop point mega folder with a bank vault strong lock and no bells,whistles or humpy things on it would be great boone to hikers,sportsmen *and* defensive knife users. A nice deep finger groove and maybe a pseudo guard would allow all the vigorous stabbing and chopping maneuvers one might want but it`s general configuration would be condusive to camp chores and everyday tasks. It might also be less shocking to the general public and LEOs. Of course if they wanna make a mega fighter *also* that would be cool. Maybe they`d be interested in building a 8" folding Outsider! [​IMG] Marcus
     
  8. Athanatos

    Athanatos

    Jan 30, 1999
    I can see it now. Some of you are hoping for a 6 foot megafolder. Throw it in my CRX, and break the springs! (Well, at least they could be recycled for an article in <EM>Blade</EM>.)
     
  9. Tuff

    Tuff

    981
    Jun 15, 1999
    2 things I'm hoping for -

    #1 - really, really good lock

    #2 - Partially serrated.

    A 5.5in blade works well. 7 or more seems ridiculous to me...IMO
     
  10. Jim March

    Jim March KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 7, 1998
    Marcus, you're right. A well-built big folder will still be a good fighter even if utility isn't overlooked, or even if utility is emphasised.

    Two points then: improve on the Sifu's "blade heft" - go thicker. And whatever you do, set up the grip so that you cannot have a "slip-up type accident" on a hard-target stab. Even if you're mainly targetting the heavy utility market, you still want that. Fingergrooves all the way up are overkill, granted.

    Jim
     
  11. Marcus

    Marcus

    622
    Oct 4, 1998
    Good ideas Jim. Maybe 3/16" thick blade and an integral guard flowing into a fairly deep single finger groove? Oh baby,I`m getting all worked up again for this monster! [​IMG] Marcus
     
  12. Jim March

    Jim March KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 7, 1998
    Marcus, that's about it.

    The *only* other concession to combat that would be really neat would be solid retention for the back of the pinkie. What I mean is, if you let go with the thumb and forefinger and then do a hard smash/chop, the knife should resist "forward motion" just like the forefinger notch will cause the knife to resist "backwards motion" in the hand on a stab.

    That "pinkie retention" is the key to the FMA grip style and it's Asian relatives. Done right, it won't screw up "utility holds" at all.

    Jim
     
  13. Yekim

    Yekim

    813
    Nov 4, 1998
    The grip needs at least two comfortable grip positions, towards the fron for control, and towards the back for reach,hacking..the Sifu has three, so does the VG..I don't mind the finger grooves as much as I thought I would, and I think I would at least have two index grooves. That is just me though...Maybe a little pinky hook on the end.

    The Sifu is sweet Jim...it is light, balances on the first groove, and moves fast. I think you are going to be really happy with it. I am not much ofa knife fighting person, My state permits my carrying a gun, so I don't rely on a knife so much for defense. If it is going to be a while till you get yours Jim, I'll send you down mine to play with.. [​IMG]..

    I think the BFF1 should lean towards the utility side of the scale...a 5.5" knife by itself would be a fairly effective weapon in a pinch. I want something I can hack with and be abusive to with out worrying about breakage. I ain't worried about the sifu busting too much, but I think I would feel more secure hacking thing up with a thicker blade.

    YeK
     
  14. Ewok

    Ewok

    Jul 28, 1999
    Jim March, I noticed that you justify an only-in-California model by saying that we have 17 million people. That is certainly true. We also have another 14 million people to go with them. [​IMG] Total population is around 31 million.

    ------------------
    Support RKBA Advertising!!!
    http://www.citizensofamerica.org
     
  15. MM

    MM

    682
    Nov 22, 1998
    Personally, like Jim March, I'd like to see this go towards a more radical blade. 7" would be awesome. I'd also like to have it sharped for at least part of the back edge so as to be able to use some Keating style back cuts. How about a folding bowie? Nice hefty blade. Proven fighting design. I dont need a utility megafolder. I like a 3.5"-4" blade for a utility folder. And if I need to do any chopping I'll use a fixed blade. Or better yet, an axe. [​IMG]

    ------------------
    Ciao

    Mike Melone

    "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. " Psalm 144:1
    "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson


     
  16. Phil Gibbs

    Phil Gibbs Cutlery Student Platinum Member

    Nov 11, 1998
    I was wondering how long it would be untill someone brought up "Folding Bowies"!
    I must admit to a bit of a fetish for them myself.
    A 7" blade would would give us about an 8" to 8.5" handle. Maybe a little too much for me!
    At these sizes I personally would lean towards an even bigger blade in a smaller handle. How about a 9.5" blade in a 5" handle? Draws from kydex carry rig as a 5" then "opens" to a 9.5". Of course we would need yet another lock design to lock it TIGHT both open & closed. Designing handle shape for good grip ergonomics would be difficult as blade must be covered in the "closed" position and handle shape must "go both ways!"
    Don't get me started!
    I've got to focus on the BFF1 for now.
    Thanks for all the continued input & support guys!
     
  17. Jim March

    Jim March KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 7, 1998
    There IS a way to get a true folder with a grip that "shortens" after the blade opens.

    It's a primitive yet effective lock whereby the grip itself "folds back in on itself" and jams against the blade tang. It's an old design long in the public domain.

    Done right, you could have an 8" blade with a 9.5" grip, but 4" of "skinny grip" dissapears back into the blade channel and you get an actual 5.5" grip. Your own grip strength reinforces the lock.

    BUT when closed, there's no blade exposed at all.

    It's *ideal* for major megafolders...it takes a funky "two step" to deploy, sorta like a Balisong except it isn't one. All the ones I've seen were cheapos.

    Jim
     
  18. fudo

    fudo

    Aug 27, 1999
    As far as blade shape is concerned, I think that the best compromise between utility value and value as a weapon is the Scramasax (sax)blade It has a straight edge which is easy to sharpen in the field and it has a fine point useful as a weapon and for opening packages or other point sensitive work. The Lynn Griffith "Sniper" is a good example of this shape. In a flat or slightly hollow grind, this would be great
     
  19. Jim March

    Jim March KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 7, 1998
    Is this the same blade shape as a "Warncliffe"?

    If so, that's not a crazy idea. The only problem is, it's a great blade shape for "fine control" but...anything this big WILL be more of a "brute force approach", utility OR combat. In other words, the purposes of that blade shape and a megafolder "clash".

    If I'm not understanding your blade shape concept, please clarify.

    Jim
     
  20. fudo

    fudo

    Aug 27, 1999
    The shape which is now for some reason called Wharncliffe has been known for a thousand years as a scramasax (sax)The people who were commonly associated with these blades were called Saxons. There are extant examples of knives with a blade length of approximately one foot up to Viking swords with a blade of 32-34" Museum Replicas has reproduced several types of both.
    Point control-is-always-important for a weapon with a point. The Sax point is strong, easy to control and having a straight edge from heel to point means that even a relatively unskilled person with relatively primitive equipment can sharpen it. I have one that was made in Sheffield, England in the 1830's. After all this time, it now looks like a slight hawkbill, but after 169 years its still serviveable. Look carefully at a picture of the Lynn Griffith "Sniper." This is the only picture that I know of that is easily accessible, but I am sure there are many others. You will see that the point is well designed for thrusting and chopping and slicing. Large or small, unless you are an extreme specialist. They are the best all around blade shape for most uses. I don't see the Sax shape as being contraindicated for a big folder. I have been using one for a long time and they really grow on you because they are so efficient. To be in continous use for a thousand years says something about them. You might ask Hank Reinhart at Museum Replicas what he thinks. I would like to hear your thoughts after using one for a while. I think you would like them too.
    Another way to look at it is to see them as having all the strengths of a Sheepsfoot, but with a useful stabbing point
    [This message has been edited by fudo (edited 19 October 1999).]

    [This message has been edited by fudo (edited 19 October 1999).]
     

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