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Any chance of a Camillus megafolder?

Discussion in 'Camillus Collector's Forum' started by Jim March, Jan 25, 1999.

  1. gregj62


    Oct 4, 1998
    Heck I will buy it site unseen [​IMG]

    -Greg Johnson

  2. Phil Gibbs

    Phil Gibbs Cutlery Student Platinum Member

    Nov 11, 1998

    Most specs are pretty fluid right now.
    How about:
    5.49" Long, 3/16 thick CPM 420V Drop Point Spear Blade. Chromium Nitride coated.
    G10 handles. Hardened Stainless steel liners.
    Ambidextrous thumb stud.

    Yes, I will see to it that posters on this thread get first crack & special pricing.

    Tell me more about your "special brand of abuse". Hopefully my theoretical lock is up to it! [​IMG]
  3. Marcus


    Oct 4, 1998
    Phil,you rule! I can`t wait to see this bad boy,better yet I can`t wait to get my hands on one. [​IMG] An absolute must have. Marcus
  4. Jim March

    Jim March KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 7, 1998
    Phil, you take that knife, put a good lockwork on it, you've got a winner, no question. Don't change a THING! I'd kinda like longer but the TX market shouldn't be ignored. If it gets really popular we can bounce around bigger but this is a FINE start.

    Jim March
  5. Jim March

    Jim March KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 7, 1998
    Errr...one minor point: if at all possible, have the outermost 1" to 2" of false edge spine (if spearpoint, that's what you'd have, right?) disappear into the grip...so it can be sharpened if desired.

    See also the concept of the "Bowie Back-cut" it's REALLY cool and almost impossible to defend against...but it needs at least a double-edge tip to work right. The Gerber Applegate folder is a good example. Don't sharpen it from the factory, set it up so that WE can, local laws permitting. In California it'd be perfectly kosher.

    And of course contour the grip so your hand won't slip down the blade on a hard-target stab but you knew that part anyways [​IMG].

    Jim March
  6. KenN


    Jan 26, 1999

    As a Tx. resident, I thank you(and Jim) for your consideration of our states laws in the design of this knife. Please leave any spine side grinds unsharpened as Jim suggested.
    I'll be patiently waiting for your production/proto release.

  7. MM


    Nov 22, 1998
    I'm getting very excited about this! The preliminary specs you posted are great. I'm very anxious to learn more about your new locking system. Can you give us any clues?

    Keep up the excellent work.



  8. amacks

    amacks Gold Member Gold Member

    Oct 13, 1998
    I like! I'm almost sure it'll be illegal to carry here in Mass, but I'll get one anyway. Any idea yet of a price range, or will that have to wait until closer to release date?
    ps odd, I've noticed my tastes running away from each other, larger folders and smaller fixed-blades

    Why did you stab that girl?
    You won't believe this, but I had too much coffee!
    -Edmond by David Mamet
    [email protected]
  9. James Mattis

    James Mattis

    Oct 3, 1998
    If it's more practical than an CS VG, I'll take one! The blade shape I'd like to see is something like a stretched Genesis, flat ground almost to the spine, with just a hint of "swedge" on top. A utility pattern that size will be scary enough if scary is the desired effect. First thing I'll do with it is slice up some bread or vegies, so I can truthfully tell anyone who asks that that's what I use if for. It would be nice it it was designed to have a fair amount of the edge able to come down on a flat surface like a cutting board.

    Thumb studs or a disk would be more visibly CA-legal than the CUDA mechanism (though it's been explained to me by Mr. Gibbs that the CUDA mechanism is really just another thumb stud), and, for all jurisdictions, it could be made ambidextrous, while the CUDA is definitely a right-handed knife.

    - JKM
  10. Yekim


    Nov 4, 1998

    Don't feel bad, I am carrying a VG and a Cetan now..I can relate....

  11. Jim March

    Jim March KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 7, 1998
    Phil, we've got some interesting info from rec.knives here. Somebody asked about the patent status or similar on the Sebenza Integral lock and it's legality on the BM Pinnacle and other "Sebenza clones".

    Take a look:

    Titan ([email protected]) wrote:
    : I just received a Spring '99 Cutlery Shoppe Flyer.
    : The picture and description of the Benchmade Pinnacle
    : #750 indicate it is in large part a copy of Chris
    : Reeve's Sebenza with an almost identical titanium
    : handle, one side of which forms the lock.

    : Is there a patent on the handle/lock? If so, who
    : owns it? Is the Pinnacle #750 an authorized or an
    : unauthorized copy?

    I'm still awaiting my Sebenza, but having handled tons of them, I can say that I don't think the Pinnacle is a copy.

    The main similarity is the locking mechanism. That mechanism is not patented by Reeves, and in fact other makers have used this kind of mechanism. The reason people seem to be "raising the alarm" about the Pinnacle and not those other makers/manufacturers is that Benchmade has done it particularly well-done and affordably.

    Benchmade approached some parts of the locking mechanism differently -- look at Reeves two vertical slots versus Benchmade's long horizontal one. Anyway, that's the main similarity, the lock. Is every liner lock a "copy" of the really old liner locks?

    The handles are one-piece titanium, but that's an artifact dictated by the lock. Every integral-style lock I know of is titanium slabs, and so superficially looks like the SEbenza -- e.g., the CRK&T S-2, Elishewitz's integral locks, the Pinnacle, Darrel Ralph's new Apogee integral lock etc. So the titanium handles are given. But Benchmade's handle is different than the Sebenza's, and much more ergonomic and easy to hold onto from what I can tell.

    The blades are completely different. The Pinnacle uses a Walter Brend blade, sabre-ground and recurved. The Sebenza's blade is a high-hollow grind, no recurve.

    You could just as implausibly say the Pinnacle is a Brend copy as a Sebenza copy, IMO.

    Joe Talmadge
    [email protected]

    Jim again. The implication is that the Integral lock is free for use. Considering that Chris Reeve has sworn never to make a folder with a blade over 3.5" I don't think anyone will look down on Camillus for using this lock on a 5.49" megafolder.

    Does anyone else agree that with a training manual that says "grab it TIGHT to reinforce the lock in a fight" I really think it'd work.

    It's by no means the sole option of course...

    Jim March (You know, I hope Camillus's high mucky-mucks are looking at the size of this thread compared to all others combined!!!)
  12. Phil Gibbs

    Phil Gibbs Cutlery Student Platinum Member

    Nov 11, 1998
    As far as the locking mechanism goes, I am still looking for clues!! [​IMG]

    Still too early to tell on price yet, but it will not be a cheap date! 5.49" of CPM420V is an expensive start. But as I stated earlier, I will personally take care of all those who have contributed to this thread with SPECIAL pricing!

    At this time I have no plans of employing CUDA opening button on this project. Weight of blade will slow down CUDA effect alot, but should allow very rapid deployment by other methods! [​IMG]
    BTW left handed CUDAs are available.

    My goal on the new lock design (apart from surviving absurd impact & lok-breaking torque) is that no matter how you grip the knife it is impossible to partially unlock it inadvertently.
    If I crash & burn on this design I would not be willing to use a Sabenza style lock without Chris Reeve's blessing. Patented or not, this is HIS IDEA! If you get enough lawyers you can bust any patent! We have all seen examples of this. At Camillus we respect the ideas & designs of others I expect the same. We pay royalties to many Designers/Manufacturers, even when the patent lawyers say it is a "grey area". It's just the right thing to do!!
    "Camillus's high mucky-mucks" are at least as pumped on this as you guys!

    BTW, official project designation of this knife is:
    (BladeForums Folder1)
    (Big F%[email protected]#*g Folder1)
    your choice
  13. James Mattis

    James Mattis

    Oct 3, 1998
    Hmmm . . . A "Megasebenza" with Chris Reeve's blessing? I think I want one, though Mr. Reeves refusal to make one himself does reinforce my initial doubts on the practicality of such a big pocket knife. A fixed blade knife with a five-inch blade doesn't have to have an oversize handle to accomodate it.

    How about a stretched Sebenza type blade, 3/16" stock and hollow-ground?

    In 1/8" stock, a high saber grind (3/4 of the way up) combined with a straight clip point and a bit of a false edge would look a bit like a folding small Bowie knife, also not a bad idea.

    - JKM
  14. Scott Evans

    Scott Evans

    Oct 4, 1998

    Any sketches you might post ?

    I would love to see where your going with this.

    Fun … Fun project … and you even get paid to do it. [​IMG]

    Personally I like finger groves (at lease the index finger) with a knife this size and also a thumb ramp.

    Put a gizmo on the blade, like the Emmerson Commander, so that as you draw it from a sheath or your pocket the blade can be opened with as little manipulation as possible. Just a thought.

    [This message has been edited by Scott Evans (edited 18 March 1999).]
  15. wll


    Feb 4, 1999
    Well ... I think that a 5.49 inch folder would be great, the spearpoint sounds fine the type of steel sounds good, But ... can you make the handle as low profile yet sturdy as possible. A duel pocket clip is great and a kydex sheath as an extra ( if its small and makes a tight package) would be ideal.

    again, Look at the length of cold steel units, they are large .. try to keep the handle size down and slim, yet have enough meat to dig in, if you know what I mean.

    Thank You, and I do want one !!!!

  16. Rusty

    Rusty Moderator Moderator

    Mar 8, 1999
    For a real tribute to Jim how about calling it the "March Madness"? How about it Jim, doesn't that go to the very essence of the whole thing? Wild and Crazy, YESSSSSS!!!!

    ( I realize that such a name would be politically incorrect in the extreme and would severely handicap your defense attorney if you ever had to use it, though. Better find another "official" name like "Rescue March" or "Safety Match... er, March". Or maybe "March Folder". I can just see it, the Camillus M-F, laughing out loud!!! )

    Seriously, my respects to Mr. March. I came in late, but love his idea. He should be given credit for it in some way.

    Now I'm going back to my usual half-fun and full-earnest mode.

    Russ S
  17. Jim March

    Jim March KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 7, 1998
    March Madneeeeeeeoooohhhh groaaaan.

    Arg. [​IMG] That's a pun so bad it's worthy of ME, unfortunately...

  18. larry harley

    larry harley Banned BANNED

    Mar 19, 1999
    so phil!!

    when will u come out w a BIG folder???
    a folding straight knife????
    folder possum


  19. Burke

    Burke Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    How about the Fighting-Utility Camillus Knife? [​IMG]

    Seriously, CPM420V sounds like a great choice for this knife. What about doing a blade-tip similar to the Spyderco Police? The modified, sharpenable clip point is great. I'd also love to see a flat grind. For a lock, what about using a spring-loaded Opinel style? Wouldn't this result in a fairly ergonomic handle shape (though it might be a little thick for most people's pockets) (Is that megafolder in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?)? Am I crazy? Am I asking rhetorical questions?
  20. Jim March

    Jim March KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 7, 1998
    Nonono - what's needed is the Fighting-Utility Camillus Knife, Young Outdoorsman/Urbanite.

    Larry, good to see you around these parts. To all: Larry Harley doesn't say much but he's one hell of a good knifemaker who doesn't say much but what does come out is generally worth listening to. Plus anybody who hunts boars with knives as a hobby and does guide work in such must be respected.

    Jim March

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