Any response to this? S35VN Related...

[Franz_N]

With all this concern over S35VN it makes it difficult to lay down the serious money that CRK's go for. I'm looking to get a new small sebenza inlay or CGG in the near future, at this point though i rather get one in S30V, but they are all mostly S35VN right now. This whole thing about S35VN can't be good for business, i'm sure that there are people like me who would rather not spend the money on a S35VN knife with all the controversy surrounding the steel. I mean i'm fairly certain that CTS said in one of his videos that S35VN was comparable to 8cr13mov, if that is not something CTS said then i apologize for misquoting him, but if my memory serves me right he did make that comparison. No way i would pay a premium price for that kind of performance. Hopefully this all gets cleared up soon and we can get some final thoughts on S35VN.

 

[cziv]

Well in the end there has been positive things to come of this thread. It has gotten the attention of a few big knife manufacturers and they seem
interested in seeing why the couple knives in question performed the way they did. And they have the equipment and testing procedures to find
accurate and detailed results. So all this other he said she said stuff doesnt really matter because it looks well have an answer to our questions shortly.

I may have posted this link in this thread but there's 3 S35VN threads that I've been participating in. 2 others beside this one. I agree that the manufacturers like Sal and Thomas have jumped on board to try and solve this problem that was exposed - quite innocently I might add by CTS in his cutting videos and validated by Ankerson's findings in his own cutting tests.

I believe Thomas is sending CTS an S35VN blade run at somewhere around 62HRC. I don't know if this will make or break the riddle of this new offering. It may have come from an anomaly, as far back as Crucible or a single heat treated batch. The Spyderco blade really causes one to look further than it being a "just Chris Reeve" problem IMO.

Rick Hinderer is using this steel in some of his folders at 61-62 HRC and I had no noticeable wear (under manification) using it under normal conditions like cutting up a couple of boxes to bits.

Here's a link to the second pile of cardboard I cut. I'll be adding some wood cutting pics tomorrow. The knife didn't shave too well and still doesn't but it will cut copy paper just as well as it did before the boxes and pry crates open too. Forgive me if I posted this already.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...S35VN-characteristics?p=10264336#post10264336 Post #152

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

With all this concern over S35VN it makes it difficult to lay down the serious money that CRK's go for. I'm looking to get a new small sebenza inlay or CGG in the near future, at this point though i rather get one in S30V, but they are all mostly S35VN right now. This whole thing about S35VN can't be good for business, i'm sure that there are people like me who would rather not spend the money on a S35VN knife with all the controversy surrounding the steel. I mean i'm fairly certain that CTS said in one of his videos that S35VN was comparable to 8cr13mov, if that is not something CTS said then i apologize for misquoting him, but if my memory serves me right he did make that comparison. No way i would pay a premium price for that kind of performance. Hopefully this all gets cleared up soon and we can get some final thoughts on S35VN.

After doing some more cutting (not on film) I have to believe that CRK just needs to run theirs a point or two harder.

I have done some informal cutting with two more S35Vn blades (Strider and Microtech) and they have held up just fine. Seriously, not much of a difference (if any) from S30V. Formal cut test videos incoming soon. But it's my fiancee's birthday, so none today unfortunately.

But, these few little cutting sessions lead me to believe that this isn't really a "problem." And it certainly isn't a widespread issue with ALL S35VN. But, I still believe CRKs implementation of the steel is lagging behind a little bit. But let me make this clear. ***I still have my large Seb in my pocket!***

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

With all this concern over S35VN it makes it difficult to lay down the serious money that CRK's go for. I'm looking to get a new small sebenza inlay or CGG in the near future, at this point though i rather get one in S30V, but they are all mostly S35VN right now. This whole thing about S35VN can't be good for business, i'm sure that there are people like me who would rather not spend the money on a S35VN knife with all the controversy surrounding the steel. I mean i'm fairly certain that CTS said in one of his videos that S35VN was comparable to 8cr13mov, if that is not something CTS said then i apologize for misquoting him, but if my memory serves me right he did make that comparison. No way i would pay a premium price for that kind of performance. Hopefully this all gets cleared up soon and we can get some final thoughts on S35VN.

I did make that assumption, but I should have cleared some of the mud from the water. For that I apologize.

Let's see if I can explain this anomaly in a way that makes sense. (hopefully)

The CRK Seb in S35VN *technically* stayed "sharper" longer. As in it would slice the paper after the point that the 8CR knife wouldn't. But, the 8CR knife didn't experience the edge flattening that the S35Vn Seb did. So, I rightly, and wrongly, stated that the 8cr knife out performed the S35VN blade. But, which one performed better than the other depends on what aspect of knife steels you consider to be "performance."

Hope this clears some of that up.

 

[vwb563]

If you think that cutting any metal or pretty much anything else gives no edge wear you are delusional, as soon as that edge cuts anything wear starts right there, sharpness starts to fall off from the 1st cut and continues on until the edge is completely dull.

I have tons of cutting data to support that FACT....

Nobody said that it can't be cut, it can, I used to cut cords of different types at work and I used it as a test medium a very long time ago.

The issue here is that someone is saying that they can make 300 cuts through 3 wire orange power cord and still shave with it.

They would have to be push cutting because there is no way possible any knife could make 300 draw cuts through that and hold an edge, I don't care what knife it is or who made it.

Even push cutting all of the cuts would have to be perfect with ZERO side loading, even then given the steel, hardness and the wear resistance it's still not really possible.

Ok here is another classic example of people reading things how they choose to. Did I say anything, anything at all about cutting through copper wire with no loss of sharpness? NO! I said I have cut through copper wire with no edge damage! No Chips, no rolling, nothing! My knife may have been dulled a little but that is all. Please don't call someone delusional just because you chose to read their words wrong! I can cut a coke can into with a swiss army knife and still shave arm hair! I have done it several times! Is my knife a little less sharp? Sure. Will it still shave arm hair? It sure will! I have done this on more than one occasion just to show that a good quality knife can accomplish a resonable task with going completely dull like the old junk Chinese knives made years ago. Now carry on please!

 

[cziv]

Ok here is another classic example of people reading things how they choose to. Did I say anything, anything at all about cutting through copper wire with no loss of sharpness? NO! I said I have cut through copper wire with no edge damage! No Chips, no rolling, nothing! My knife may have been dulled a little but that is all. Please don't call someone delusional just because you chose to read their words wrong! I can cut a coke can into with a swiss army knife and still shave arm hair! I have done it several times! Is my knife a little less sharp? Sure. Will it still shave arm hair? It sure will! I have done this on more than one occasion just to show that a good quality knife can accomplish a resonable task with going completely dull like the old junk Chinese knives made years ago. Now carry on please!

I didn't read anything about anyone saying your knife would be or was damaged when you cut copper wire? I believe dulling of blades was what was being mentioned. Thanks for confirming that.

 

[vwb563]

I didn't read anything about anyone saying your knife would be or was damaged when you cut copper wire? I believe dulling of blades was what was being mentioned. Thanks for confirming that.

Ok??? So all the talk about rolling and chipping edges,,,Oh #ell never mind. It aint worth my time!

 

[JNewell]

Bah. Back to BG-42.

 

[Ankerson]

I didn't read anything about anyone saying your knife would be or was damaged when you cut copper wire? I believe dulling of blades was what was being mentioned. Thanks for confirming that.

Yeah that was what we have been talking about.

But edge damage will happen to any blade if it's pushed long enough, the edge will just get to the point were it can't take it anymore at some point and a roll or chip will happen.

How long that takes will depend on a lot of varaiables, but it will happen.

 

[vwb563]

I sincerely hope that Chris Reeve has stopped reading this thread !

If I were Chris and I had some alternate job or if I had saved up enough to retire I'd stop selling knives. It must be incredibly frustrating turning out some of the best, if not the best production knives in the world :thumbup: and having this type of internet crucifixion going on by all kind of self-proclaimed experts. First it was the strength of the one-piece range, then the Sebenza lock-strength, then S30V heat treatment, now S35VN and all this insinuation that he is lying when he does respond. Then all the "experts" arguing whether cutting metal, spine-whacking, batoning and fridge-stabbing are to be considered abuse for a knife ???

I doubt he has stopped reading all this! Chris needs a good laugh just as much as anyone else does! Nothing like some good ole "arm chair quarterbacking!"

 

[cziv]

I doubt he has stopped reading all this! Chris needs a good laugh just as much as anyone else does! Nothing like some good ole "arm chair quarterbacking!"

You and maxbelg who you've chose to quote, are a couple of characters but I do think you've stumbled onto the crux of the matter here with that post.

 

[MiG Angel]

Bah. Back to BG-42.

No. CPM-154 for me please!

 

[Tsujigiri]

I really want this steel to work out, but what I find disturbing is the widely variant results people have gotten, with nothing from the manufacturer explaining it. Was there a batch of blades that was heat treated incorrectly? Did CRK ever change the way they produced S35VN? The users posting seem like trustworthy people, so I don't doubt that the steel performs well for some and badly for others. But for a company that seems to get everything else on the knife perfectly, it's a shame that the latest "update" has made the most important part of the knife, the blade, a roll of the dice.

 

[Toyz]

All "issues" aside - I think what this thread and others like it teaches us is to use our knives before we come to rely on them in possibly a life or death situation.

I can't tell you how many times the only things I would cut with a knife are paper and some cardboard, or maybe opening up some food product or clamshell packaging.

I'm pushing my knives much harder now to make sure I know what their limitations are (within reason).

I hope this S35VN issue comes to a satisfactory resolve - I like the knives I have in this steel and they work for me.

I take comfort that most of the knife world has moved on to using S35VN - not just one maker.

 

[Noctis3880]

After rolling my M390 edge at Rc 62 on hard plastic today(20-25 degrees per side), I'm starting to wonder if this is really an issue at all. Granted even if the AUS-8 didn't roll, we'd have to know the hardness of that particular steel before we can say more about it. Plus, I've heard repeatedly that AUS-8 performed better than S30V and given that S35VN isn't really an improvement over S30V, we're just repeating ourselves here. I'm also wondering if S30V from the same makers wouldn't react the same way.

Thus far, I've met no steel that wouldn't suffer minor damage from use, especially from rigid and unyielding materials.


Of course, the results on the second video(which I would recommend watching before commenting) on rope wasn't promising. Short of slamming the knife on the cutting board I wouldn't expect that much bending of the edge from contact with hard wood. I would be perfectly satisfied with S35VN at that point if it was a mere rolling of the edge, though it looked as though the entire bevel was bent all the way to the shoulder of the edge.

 

[Billy7]

Interesting thread...would be great if someone from Crucible would chime in and give us their perspective on this.

 

[Noctis3880]

Interesting thread...would be great if someone from Crucible would chime in and give us their perspective on this.

I doubt the folks at Crucible frequent these forums that much.

Though physically speaking I'm a bit puzzled at the way the steel failed. I would think resistance to deformation is directly related to rockwell hardness and little else. Wouldn't a high carbide volume like S90V mean that the steel would chip rather than bend when subjected to similar stress? Or if the material is too hard and lacks toughness like ZDP at Rc 66-67 or a ceramic blade?

The way I figure it, there should be no way in hell two steels at the same hardness would end up with one deforming while the other suffers no apparent damage. If anything a different alloy composition should only lead to one chipping while the other rolls.

My only theory is that S35VN either doesn't react to heat treatment the same way as S30V(heat treatment recipe in the datasheet appear to be identical), or it's not as consistent throughout the entire batch(especially large production size batches as opposed to small ones).

 

[jnug]

For Chris Reeve:
Chris thank you for your comment in response to a few of my posts regarding marketing materials. Web sites and servers being what they are, I
must have been typing one of my last posts when you were sending yours and I did not even see your post until today. Thanks again for your
Response.

 

[Cynic2701]

I doubt the folks at Crucible frequent these forums that much.

Though physically speaking I'm a bit puzzled at the way the steel failed. I would think resistance to deformation is directly related to rockwell hardness and little else. Wouldn't a high carbide volume like S90V mean that the steel would chip rather than bend when subjected to similar stress? Or if the material is too hard and lacks toughness like ZDP at Rc 66-67 or a ceramic blade?

The way I figure it, there should be no way in hell two steels at the same hardness would end up with one deforming while the other suffers no apparent damage. If anything a different alloy composition should only lead to one chipping while the other rolls.

Rockwell Hardness is a measure of the resistance of a material to compression by an object of known hardness by a known amount of force. Hardness doesn't directly correlate to torsional strength e.g. rubber would have a hardness to torsional strength ratio that would be extreme. Steel might have a higher torsional strength, but the difference between hardnesses would be ridiculous.

 

[Lord Bear]

I don't really see how cutting rope could be considered abuse. The wire test, maybe, but it's a stretch.

I totally agree with your reasoning though. People do NOT like to hear that something they paid good money for may be flawed. I am usually used as a scapegoat.

Might not the problem be the cutting board as compared to medium you are trying to cut through? Usually when I try rope I just double it up and cut through the loop. No surface to press against as a cutting board. And you are pushing down hard.
I do sharpen pencils and strip wires though. However there is no denying that other steels INCLUDING substantially lower cost options outperformed s35 with this particular method of testing.
Disclaimer: I recently got multiple Native 5's cuz I loved everything about them including their cutting ability.
Keeping my fingers crossed on this issue.
Hopefully s35 is not " flawed" somehow.