Anybody tried the Randall Training Knife w/ D2 Blade?

tknife said:
Scott, some very cool knives on your site, I really like the one posted above too. It's cool to see a maker out using his knives.
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Thank you, I appreciate that. :) Sometimes I have to go out and "cut" loose (pun intended) :D and have some fun. It gives me a feeling of satisfaction when a knife I made works out.
Scott
 
Thanks for the info Scott, like TKnife wrote, it is always good to see a maker who uses their own knife in the field. Not only does it show confidence in the design and execution, it shows that the designs are based on experience in the real world, not what will work best in a production schedule or marketing department. It is also good to see you working with other knifemakers, sometimes networking and bouncing ideas off one anohter can really lead to inovation.

Great buys on those knives guys, I am sure you will be happy with your Ranger Knives, I know I am.

Thomas, if I did not already have one RD9, I really would have been tempted by that blaze orange G10, it may not be "tactical" but it sure will be easy to spot your knife if need be. That is a great looking knife, great catch getting the last one.

Hamp,
Sounds like you got a great deal, is your new knife flat or hollow ground? Personally I prfer a flat ground balde, but I am very interested in hearing how the hollow grind version compares. Both grinds have advantages, so it is a matter of persoanl preference and what whats best for your uses and technique. Kinda like choosing a blade steel. On a 5160 steel knife, your chances of gross failure into the primary hollow grind with the edge geometery Justin uses is super small unless you are doing outrageous things like slamming the edge full force into hardened steel.

Anyways, here is what my RD9 looked like when I got it. Of course it does not look so nice and shiny now, but to me a knife like this is a pure tool, so staining, patina, scratches, etc. don't bother me at all.

rd1yc.jpg
 
Mine is going to be a flat grind. I was sort of wanting the convex edge but I guess that's only on the orange satins that Justin made exclusively for Sage Creek. Truth is the only reason I got to thinking convex was because I understand that's how most of the Busse's come & from what little I understand it's supposed to be a really tough edge. I decided that if I just gotta have a convex I'll whine to Justin when he gets back. I have a feeling it's going to be just fine the way it comes!
 
Flat grind will serve you perfectly well. The edge has quite a bit of convesity, obviously belt sharpened. Very similiar to Busse geometery. It will be very durable.

Yep, the green ahndled knife at the bottom is a Mora 2000, about $25 and one of the best performing light use fixed blades you can buy. Edge holding is not spectacular, but I don't expect it to be. It is made from 12C27, a very fine grained Swedish steel. For a Stainless steel it is pretty darn tough, I don't worry about the edge chipping. When it is damaged, it is usually minor deformation which is easily realigned.

It has a dual grind, singel bevel scandi at the base, used for carving wood and placed for high leverage, and full falt with a secondary edge grind in front for slicing, add in a bit of distal taper and it really slices well.

I have had people make jokes about my knife, but it performs exceptionally well, so the proof is in the pudding. I have a nice assortment of high performance knives in that size range to choose from, and it often gets the nod. That is saying something, especially coming from someone who really prefers carbon steels in fixed blade, non-marine use, knives.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but while the green and black Ranger Knives RD's seem to have a 50/50 saber grind (bevel starting about half way up the side), the regular orange micarta RD's seem to have the bevel start much higher.

Or I could be misinterpreting the pictures on the Sage Creek site. :rolleyes:
 
I thought the orange handled ones have a full flat grind with a slightly convex edge, basically the same knife as mine just a different handle material?
 
The way the gentleman at Sage Creek explained it to me only the bright orange handled knives have the convex edge. I guess they are an “exclusive” for Sage Creek. The handles have been polished & the whole thing coated in some sort of plastic? The black bladed knives w/ what appears to be a more washed out orange grip have a flat grind edge & the grip material is the same but not polished to the bright orange color. Hey … I’m easily confused so don’t take this as gospel.
Hamp
 
This is my first day on the forum, so bear with me, please.

I have a Randall which was made for me in about 1969, by Bo himself. The closest in their current line to it is a model 12 Little Bear. I don't think he was telling what his carbon steels were back then. I terms of performance, the closest thing I have to compare it to is a D2 Benchmade. The Randall is much to dear to me to subject it to sever impact loads. Years ago it chopped through a lot of bone. It chipped once and only once, which I was able to clean up in about an hour on a soft arkansas.

For that sort of thing, I am using a K-bar (1095) at the moment, which I feel is a good knife for the money. I have no idea what their temper is but, they are harder than other 1095 knives I have known. I notice they are starting to use D2 for big knives, and I expect I will be forced to try one. All-in-all, D2 is my pick. If the job us unsuitable for a knife, I have a Martindale machete, a Japanese bolo 10" (of unknown origin despite my best efforts) which is one of the best big knives I have ever owned, and one of several Gerber hand axes.

My current belief is that of the stainless steels availble, the best is S30. I have a number of A8 "tactical" knives, to all of which my Benchmade S30 is superior.
 
The Sage Creek Oranges sound like they have a full convex grind (i.e. the primary grind runs all the way to the edge, see Buzzbait's website for a full explanation).

Yes, RMK has used 01 for a number of years, and when run fairly soft it is a tough steel. It is a gauge steel, and does not seem to do very well at extreme hardness levels (62-64RC) as it loses its ductility rather rapidly. For an interesting discourse on the suitability of 01 in hard use blades at high hardness see several posts on rec.knives by Mike Swaim and Alvin Johnson from a few years ago. IIRC, they opined that 07 would be a much superior steel for that purpose. However, it has been several years since I read it so my memory may be faulty.

Still, I have several knives in O1 and am very happy with them. Some are very thin utility knives, 1/16" thick stock, very thin edges, and they do quite well. These are also not run full ahrd, but are tempered back for toughness. The only steel I feel comfortable running really hard (above 62RC) is M2.

Randjack:
My current belief is that of the stainless steels availble, the best is S30. I have a number of A8 "tactical" knives, to all of which my Benchmade S30 is superior.
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Are you sure your tactical knives are not AUS8, a stainless steel? A8, sometimes called Chipper Steel, is a very impact resistant air hardening tool steel. Very few makers work in this steel, the only one that comes to mind that uses this steel on a regular basis is Tom Johanning, who makes the nearly indestructable Tac-11.


S30V is a fine steel if you are looking for corrosion resistance, wear resistance and a good degree of toughness from a stainless steel. I have a few knives in S30V, and while it is a fine steel for a pocket knife or a small fixed blade, for a hard use knife I personally prefer the extreme toughness provided by spring steels such as 5160, and other simple but tough steels as listed in the discussion above. But again, that is just my prference, I understand that other people have different likes than I do.

I can see situations where S30V would make sense in a hard use blade though, such as marine use or other extreme conditions where chemical dulling could effect the performance of a blade and you have a need for wear resistance (such as cuttting lines), and you want a trong, stiff knife yet need some additional toughness for prying (many dive knives have flat tips, specifically for prying). In my mind, cosmetics, i.e. "I want my knife to stay shiny and pristine", should never be a critera in selecting a steel. But again, that is just how I select tools.
 
One thing to remember about 5160, if the blade is not coated or bead blasted a high gloss or near mirror finish will help to resist rust and staining. It will not eliminate it but will slow the process. I know this first hand from my own experience with the Busse 5160 I finished. It is still important to keep the blade clean, dry and a light coating of oil. BTW, bead blasted blade tend to cause rusting alot quicker then a brightly finished blade. I found this out with an Emerson folder, 154CM bead blasted. It got rust spots as quick as a Schrade Old Timer carbon steel knife.
Scott
 
After following this thread for a while I decided to purchase one of the orange handled RD7's from sagecreek outfitters. The knife arrived today and I have the following observations: The blade shape and general design are just what I am looking for ( steelheartish on a budget ) The orange handle is finished well. Wish I could have chosen another color, but that was not an option with the convex edge. The satin finish was nicer than expected. Now comes the only problem the edge grind. The edge was ground very unevenly. About 1 inch out from the choil the edge was so poorly ground there is a little belly to the blade. I spent about an hour today with mouse pad and sandpaper trying to even the edge out. There was some improvement but it still does not cut as well, or evenly as my CT or NO. Any ideas on how to even out the grind and improve the cutting ability of this knife? I don't have access to a belt sander so I am limited to the above technique and an edge pro. Any advice from the pros would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Gary

ps. The customer service at sagecreek was excelent and I still think this blade is a good deal, I just want to improve its cutting abilities.
 
On Jeff Randall's forum a person asked why the D2 version of a knife had a less efficient grind (less distal taper) than the 1095 version.



Here is Jeff Randall's response:
Just got the info back from Ontario this evening. Basically it's a matter of economics. The media used to grind the 1095 knives is also being used to grind the D2. Due to this being two completely different steels the same media does not grind both materials at the same rate. The way to rectify this is a grinding stone change on the grinders every time you change material being ground, but the cost in changing stones and dressing them eats up a lot of shop time. So, the D2 is just a little thicker and not as much stock removed. Sure, if we wanted to be perfect then we would change stones to fit the material and Ontario has offered to do that. We say it doesn't matter and there's no sense in putting more labor and cost into the product when the overall performance is not affected. So, there you have it...
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An interesting commentary on the logic behind knife production. It is a sad fact that economics wins over performance.

It is actually quite interesting, in that there is a trade off that was not listed, by using a slightly thicker grind, they increased the strength of the D2 blade, which may help compensate for the differnce in toughness between the D2 and 1095. (Toughness and strength are different properties, but they are not mutually exclusive)

Personally, with a D2 blade, I would have ground that version thinner and made it a higher cutting performance knife with a lesser scope of functional work, basically gain more efficiency on the low end and give up a little of the higher stress capability. Note this was in refernce to the Smaller TAK model (4" blade) not the 7" model.


Then again, Jeff Randall did note that he did not think it would be a functinal difference in functionality between the D2 grind and the 1095 grind, as it is a fairly variation.

Still interesting to ponder, at least for me.Reference
 
I find that to be a bit of a cop out from Ontario. I grind alot of D2, and even though it is a harder steel to grind, it shouldn't require that much of a difference in grinding materials. I also grind 5160, A2 and have minimal experience with 154CM. I use the same grinding belts for all steel. I may wear out a belt quicker grinding D2, but it isn't by much. The biggest thing is it requires more grinding time. Like Jeff Randall said, it probably won't effect preformance, but may make it more time consuming to resharpen. The most important thing to remember about D2 is keep the edge maintained and don't allow it to dull. Regular touch-ups are important.
 
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