Are bad slicers *really* bad slicers?

Interesting discussion. I really fail to see how much useful the hollow grind can be other than when all you need is very shallow cutting such that only a small portion of the blade needs to get into the material being cut, such as not-very-thick ropes. For other tasks like cutting fruits, veggies, and cardboards, hollow grind is significantly inferior to FFG.
 
sharp_edge said:
Interesting discussion. I really fail to see how much useful the hollow grind can be other than when all you need is very shallow cutting such that only a small portion of the blade needs to get into the material being cut, such as not-very-thick ropes. For other tasks like cutting fruits, veggies, and cardboards, hollow grind is significantly inferior to FFG.
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"Significantly inferior"? Nah, not at all. Hollow grinds done right cut great. By holding the media away from the hollow portion of the blade they tend to reduce friction when slicing. Sure, with some media, depending on how the grind has done, they can wedge, but flat grinds can as well. In both casts it depends on the acuteness of the primary grind and how thick the stock is.

For food prep I tend to prefer flat grinds, but for cutting up stuff like cardboard hollow grinds are a great choice. Knives like the Spyderco Southard and CRK Inkosi & Sebenza do great slicing. Neither is better, they're just different and more suited to certain tasks than others.
 
sharp_edge said:
Interesting discussion. I really fail to see how much useful the hollow grind can be other than when all you need is very shallow cutting such that only a small portion of the blade needs to get into the material being cut, such as not-very-thick ropes. For other tasks like cutting fruits, veggies, and cardboards, hollow grind is significantly inferior to FFG.
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Hollow grinds are good for splitting wood. Shoulders that create drag when slicing through material will help split wood when batoning.
 
I just picked up a Spydiechef and I can’t believe how thin it is behind the edge. If this knife was dull, it still would slice. The primary bevel is more important than the secondary bevel, by a hair, in my opinion.
 
The Medford demonstration serves as a good example that a thick blade CAN slice. But doesn't really change the fact that a thin blade CAN slice BETTER. If I wanted to squeeze the juice out of an orange while slicing it, a Medford would be fine. If I wanted to keep the most juice inside the orange...not so much.

Please don't assume that I haven't considered that there are multiple ways to skin a cat while keeping blood loss to a minimum, even with a Medford.
 
Mo2 said:
Right... But fanbois use his link as fact that Medfords are slicers. It's funny.
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It's more a case of being proof that they are knives.
Which, you know, is what they are.
So, oddly, knives work as knives.

That is the conclusion I have come to after decades of using knives: knives are knives.

silverds said:
But doesn't really change the fact that a thin blade CAN slice BETTER.
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True, and when I used the Medford to cut through ridiculously thick cardboard, with the whole blade having to go through, and a long section to be cut, it took more expenditure of strength than with some thinner knives.

But how often do I have to cut through long sections of structural grade cardboard?
The answer is: not very bloody often.

On the regular thicknesses of cardboard, like the stuff Amazon packages come in, there is virtually no difference in ease of cutting with a thicker blade versus a thinner one. :)
 
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stabman said:
It's more a case of being proof that they are knives.
Which, you know, is what they are.
So, oddly, knives work as knives.

That is the conclusion I have come to after decades of using knives: knives are knives.



True, and when I used the Medford to cut through ridiculously thick cardboard, with the whole blade having to go through, and a long section to be cut, it took more expenditure of strength than with some thinner knives.

But how often do I have to cut through long sections of structural grade cardboard?
The answer is: not very bloody often.

On the regular thicknesses of cardboard, like the stuff Amazon packages come in, there is virtually no difference in ease of cutting with a thicker blade versus a thinner one. :)
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I'm sure you would use the right tool for the job if you had to break down lots of boxes. Yes one or two boxes ain't nothing for a mega thick behind the edge Medford. I usually break down alot of boxes. Until I picked up some Spyderco's I didn't know how bad it was with the zt's I was using. If it works for you in your every day tasks then use it.
 
Mo2 said:
I'm sure you would use the right tool for the job if you had to break down lots of boxes. Yes one or two boxes ain't nothing for a mega thick behind the edge Medford. I usually break down alot of boxes. Until I picked up some Spyderco's I didn't know how bad it was with the zt's I was using. If it works for you in your every day tasks then use it.
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Exactly right. :)
I would put the Medfords I have (other than the Marauder, maybe) in the category of general purpose knives.
They will work for normal knife tasks...and some stupid ones too, as my threads have shown. :D

When I was moving and had to reinforce lots of boxes to move my many, many hundreds of pounds of books, I had to cut a LOT of cardboard (we're talking about hours of work here).
I did not have a Medford then, but I did have a SmF, which is also a thicker blade.
I used the Spyderco Urban Wharncliffe blade for much of the cutting, because the blade zipped through the cardboard, and the handle was nicely ergonomic. :thumbsup:
On a woods outing though, the Urban would not be my first choice; I would go with more of a general purpose type of blade then.

But, being a knife knut, I have a whole bunch of knives to choose from, so I can always find a knife that will work for any task.
 
Let washboard sharpening work on them and they will slice!
 
Sharperthansticks said:
Are bad slicers really bad slicers? Why not just use a more aggressive sharpening angle? The Kizer Degnan Guru isn't a great slicer out of the box, but with a 15 degree angle (per side) on it, it slices well. Why all the fuss about which knife slices well and which doesn't, if you can just change the grind angle?
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Depends on what you use the knife for but to see if it is a "good slicer" try slicing an apple. If it is fun and easy and you can make symmetrical slices then, in my book, it is a good slicer.

What do I mean by symmetrical slices ? A goofy slicer can make concave slices . . . or slices that are wedge shaped because the thick spine pushes the knife to one side as it gets deeper into the slice. Or it just sinks in and stops and then the apple blows apart because it has been wedged apart / literally ripped apart rather than cut.

Doesn't mean a knife that cuts apples funny is not a good knife for other work.

Finally, and this is crazy good slicing performance, use the knife to cut up a double wall corrugated shipping box. A nice big one. Don't just cut little thin slices off a hunk of card board; plunge the knife into the side of a closed box and cut the side out of it. Almost every knife sucks for this except for a box knife and some kitchen paring knives. For instance a nice Buck 110, a very nice knife, is just awful for this . . . the spine is too thick and it takes way too much effort and the belly of the blade causes the blade to eject out of the cut and run down the side of the box on the edge without slicing the card board or worse the blade flies clear out and off to one side and winds up running into a staple uncontrollably.

Well . . . you asked.
 
T.L.E. Sharp said:
Agreed. Benchmade Bugout and 531 are very close seconds.
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I would put the Boker Exskelibur I against any of those production folders in a slice off. It is hollow ground though.

Most hollow ground blades seem to get abruptly wider right before the edge. If you pinch the hollows on each side of the blade and pull the blade up out your fingers (so your fingers drag down each side and over the edge) you will feel this little bump.

This has to do with what section of the circle described by the hollows is meeting at the edge.
 
I think the best thing to do is work backwards from what a good slicer is.

Then you can tell if it's the knife, the material or the user/technique that's causing the "bad".
 
halden.doerge said:
Sitting next to me on the couch right now. Also, I'd throw in the Spyderco Domino. Very, very thinly ground behind the edge. One of the best underrated and now discontinued Spydercos.
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Sad to hear they've discontinued the Domino. I have its little brother, the Dice, and it is a good slicer. I suspect the Domino, with its longer blade, would be even better.
 
stabman said:
.... True, and when I used the Medford to cut through ridiculously thick cardboard, with the whole blade having to go through, and a long section to be cut, it took more expenditure of strength than with some thinner knives.

But how often do I have to cut through long sections of structural grade cardboard?
The answer is: not very bloody often.

On the regular thicknesses of cardboard, like the stuff Amazon packages come in, there is virtually no difference in ease of cutting with a thicker blade versus a thinner one. :)
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Important point when choosing a knife if you have some blade geometry knowledge versus limited to brand, lock type, action, and what looks nice. Of course you can do your major cardboard cutting with a utility knife and keep your pocket knife in your pocket. What makes them cut? Very sharp, thin blade stock, and I believe flat ground.
 
I think anyone still open to obtaining an improved understanding of the slicing behavior of different blade geometries could try slicing thin potato chips from large raw IDAHO MADE potatoes. Potatoes have similar hardness to apples and while there a multiple ways to cut an apple there's really only one way to cut thin potato chips with a knife. Test multiple knives on multiple potatoes.

Another good test might be slicing brittle cheese like parmesan from a large block. The knife that allows the thinnest slices without any crumbles would presumably be your best slicer.

I think the truth (whatever it may be) will reveal itself with either test.
 
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