Are "High End" production knives worth it? The video

WARNING THE ADVICE ABOVE IS NOT INTENDED FOR EVERYONE. DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME UNLESS YOU POSSESS THE SKILL SETS TO ACCOMPLISH THE AFOREMENTIONED TASKS. YOU COULD DESTROY A PERFECTLY GOOD KNIFE!! :eek: :D

Ai yi yiiiiiiiiiii !!

That's very true!! So, start out with some cheap knives first and find out if you are able to truly improve on the knife in front of you.

As for me.... well, I've done it to a few. And I did totally ruin the first piece of junk I fiddled around with, and learned my limitations.

However, yours truly is a quick study.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained!!

Folderguy
 
We all hear this question a lot, so I thought I'd try to tackle it in video form. :)

[YouTube]BHozhKvx4Kg[/YouTube]



Please let us know your opinions :thumbup:



.


Till when someone beat the CrAp out of it and shows to the world what is really made of.......I don't think that is worth more than my 40$CRKT "Lightfoot M1"!
When I mean beat the CrAp out ...I maen something like this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiBtHGfgZLI&feature=player_embedded
 
Till when someone beat the CrAp out of it and shows to the world what is really made of.......I don't think that is worth more than my 40$CRKT "Lightfoot M1"!
When I mean beat the CrAp out ...I maen something like this!

I doubt that CRK is trying to compete with those things. :rolleyes:
 
I doubt that CRK is trying to compete with those things. :rolleyes:

There isn't a folder that can compete with a Rao, but 'm pretty confident that a 50$ folder will beat the CrAp out of 500$ Sebenza.
Seems CRK, HT steel to glass:rolleyes::D
 
There isn't a folder that can compete with a Rao, but 'm pretty confident that a 50$ folder will beat the CrAp out of 500$ Sebenza.
Seems CRK, HT steel to glass:rolleyes::D

You are correct. The RAO folder is a beast. Almost twice as big and heavy in all aspects compared to a 500$ knife designed for another purpose. Be it Strider, CRK, ZT, Benchmade. The RAO was designed for a specific purpose as other knives were designed for another purpose. The RAO was designed with two locks, many people hate that, others love that since the Italian forces for whome the knife was designed wanted a folder, that could double as a fixed blade. Other knives are designed as folders....to fit in your pocket comfortably.


Some seem to like their CRK (I am not going to search for why others love their ZT, Strider, Benchmade, Spyderco...there are plenty of threads showing and saying the same things for all brand of knife)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659979
http://199.231.142.3/forums/showpost.php?p=6104388&postcount=14
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8543335&postcount=47

Others seem not to. Personal preferences. If you cant justify the cost of a higher end knife, no one can change your mind. For me Mr. Glesser put it well

Nice video.

High dollar knives are high dollar because they cost more to make. It might be materials (Titanium, unubtanium, etc.), it might be tolerances (Chris' has lotsa zeros after the decimal before hitting numbers), it might be labor (carving, engraving, etc.).

Sometmes those differences are difficult if not impossible for even the trained eye to detenct, generally impossible for a new student.

Just because you can't see the difference, doesn't mean it isn't there, sometimes it just means you can't see it. :D

sal


Hi GWLee,

The benefit of tight tolerances is usually for long term durability as well as smooth function. Long term durability is difficult to determine in a short term decision. That's why reputation is important.

sal
 
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You are correct. The RAO folder is a beast. Almost twice as big and heavy in all aspects compared to a 500$ knife designed for another purpose. Be it Strider, CRK, ZT, Benchmade. The RAO was designed for a specific purpose as other knives were designed for another purpose. The RAO was designed with two locks, many people hate that, others love that since the Italian forces for whome the knife was designed wanted a folder, that could double as a fixed blade. Other knives are designed as folders....to fit in your pocket comfortably.


Some seem to like their CRK (I am not going to search for why others love their ZT, Strider, Benchmade, Spyderco...there are plenty of threads showing and saying the same things for all brand of knife)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659979
http://199.231.142.3/forums/showpost.php?p=6104388&postcount=14
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8543335&postcount=47

Others seem not to. Personal preferences. If you cant justify the cost of a higher end knife, no one can change your mind. For me Mr. Glesser put it well

Definitively 'm not compare nothing.
Expensive things make people feel good, but 500 box is just exaggeration.
Its just a folder and most the time will cut paper with some Exception!
the guy in the video heisn't wear a Rolex becouse heisn't to watch like he's to folder. When I say "beat the CrAp out " means to be testet so understand how strong really is....even then still a folder ..Chinese to, make precision folder anyway.
Buy the way... I own 4 busses, every single of them cost less than 500$ &
every single of them is more tough of any Sebenza I know.
You see I don't pay just the name!?


Originally Posted by Sal Glesser
Nice video.

Sometmes those differences are difficult if not impossible for even the trained eye to detenct, generally impossible for a new student.

Just because you can't see the difference, doesn't mean it isn't there, sometimes it just means you can't see it.

sal


Anyway....You can see the difference....the difference must be proven with facts.
Today FACTS about CRK..... don't tell that much;)
 
Definitively 'm not compare nothing.
Expensive things make people feel good, but 500 box is just exaggeration.
Its just a folder and most the time will cut paper with some Exception!
the guy in the video heisn't wear a Rolex becouse heisn't to watch like he's to folder. When I say "beat the CrAp out " means to be testet so understand how strong really is....even then still a folder ..Chinese to, make precision folder anyway.
Buy the way... I own 4 busses, every single of them cost less than 500$ &
every single of them is more tough of any Sebenza I know.
You see I don't pay just the name!?


Originally Posted by Sal Glesser
Nice video.

Sometmes those differences are difficult if not impossible for even the trained eye to detenct, generally impossible for a new student.

Just because you can't see the difference, doesn't mean it isn't there, sometimes it just means you can't see it.

sal


Anyway....You can see the difference....the difference must be proven with facts.
Today FACTS about CRK..... don't tell that much;)

Well....any decent fixed blade with a full tang will be tougher then a folder.

Interesting you mention FACTS.
If it does not have a research study discussing literature, repeatable experiments to replicate the results, discuss methodology and epistemology of a case and is done through a credited origination where the results are published in a scientific journal of some sort FACTS on a public forum can be interpreted as ones personal opinion and has no ground in a debate situation of a academic or research institution. So the FACTS as you call them in academic and research terms are classified as personal opinion.
 
Well....any decent fixed blade with a full tang will be tougher then a folder..

I agree completely:thumbup:


Interesting you mention FACTS.
If it does not have a research study discussing literature, repeatable experiments to replicate the results, discuss methodology and epistemology of a case and is done through a credited origination where the results are published in a scientific journal of some sort FACTS on a public forum can be interpreted as ones personal opinion and has no ground in a debate situation of a academic or research institution. So the FACTS as you call them in academic and research terms are classified as personal opinion.

Personal opinion can vary, FACTS can't.
Nobody talking about scientific test or scientific journal :rolleyes:
That's quite a statement. Can you offer up some proof to back you up?
Do you have any scientific journal:confused::D
 
There isn't a folder that can compete with a Rao, but 'm pretty confident that a 50$ folder will beat the CrAp out of 500$ Sebenza.
Seems CRK, HT steel to glass:rolleyes::D

Just out of curiosity, do you own or have you owned a Rao or CRK knife?
 
Hi GWLee,

The benefit of tight tolerances is usually for long term durability as well as smooth function. Long term durability is difficult to determine in a short term decision. That's why reputation is important.

sal

OK, for sake of discussion, we have determined that the limited-production XYZ knife features tighter tolerances that provide the benefits of marginally smoother function and longer term durability that explain its 2x higher cost. We value these benefits and understand that we would be getting more than name or hype for our money.

Is the knife worth it? It would be worth it to me if XYZ has the other features and benefits that I want in a knife. For example, does the knife have a low profile wire clip that I prefer for discrete pocket carry? Does the knife have the full flat grind that I prefer for the type of cutting that I do most often? Put another way, what, if anything, must I give up, besides money, to get marginally smoother function and longer term durability?
 
Just out of curiosity, do you own or have you owned a Rao or CRK knife?

careful curiosity can kill you:eek: 'm kiddin:D
and you go;)

IMG_4567.jpg
 

Baseline:
Cheap Chinese folder- $10-15
RESULT: A barely usable knife or an unsafe POS, it depends. Most people feel they get their moneys worth, if barely.

An inexpensive knife- $25-$45 (CRKT, low end Spyderco, BM, Kershaw etc).
RESULT: Huge difference. The knife should function reasonably well. Most people feel they get their moneys worth. There is some satisfaction and pride in these purchases. Almost no buyers remorse or diminishing returns here.

Low to mid grade folder- $50-100, (Spyderco, BM, Kershaw, CS, etc.)
RESULT: Really big difference. Now you are getting very good construction and higher end blade steel. People are happy with these offerings, they get a good product that could last many, many years. No buyers remorse, and almost no diminishing returns on this class.

Mid to high end production folder- $ 125-250: (Al Mar, ZT, Fallkniven, Emerson, Spyderco, BM, etc)
RESULT: People start to see what the fuss is all about. These are nice knives. A person jumping from a $60 folder will immediately see the difference and understand why he paid so much for the knife. These are knives that you could hand to a total non-knife person and they would probably comment on how nice a knife it is. These are so close to high-end offerings that there is really no practical need to spend anymore for a superb quality folder. Lot’s of pride of ownership involved with this class of folder. Material quality, and construction, is top notch. Blade steel is near, or at the highest level available. The average person knows they paid a lot for the knife, but probably feel they got their moneys worth and would recommend them to others. Probably not too much buyers remorse if the person could afford it in the first place. Diminishing returns are more prevalent at this point.

High end Production folders- $300-500: ( CRK, Strider, Hinderer, etc.)
RESULT: These knives are the epitome of production craftsmanship. Everything (should) be tight, smooth and strong.

But, there is not that much immediate difference between this price point and the $125-250 price point.You could hand one of these knives over to a non-knife person and they may comment on how nice the knife is. If you told them how much it costs, they would probably be shocked and think you were crazy for paying so much for a knife.

You are not getting twice the knife for the money. Most of the cost involved for these knives are for things you can’t even see; tight tolerances, warranty, prestige. Spyderco, Kershaw/ZT and BM make several knives that are more exciting, different, and fun than these knives, for a lot less money. Things you can see in other words.

A person going from a $60 folder may truly wonder why the heck he paid so much for a knife that may not seem all that great. The quality may be obvious, but not for the extra $300 they just dropped. The knife may have annoying traits, (Strider break-in), be much thicker and heavier than he is used to, (Hinderer), or may just seem plain and unexciting compared to his other folders, (CRK). There may be major buyers remorse.

Bottom line, buy what you like, with a design that appeals to you. Forget about the price.
Bragging rights only last so long.
 
It's impossible to answer this conclusively.......

...but having owned a fair chunk of $500+ knives over the years, i would say generally no.

Charles Marlowe and Flavio Ikoma however get two thumbs up from me for fit, finish, and fantastic grinds.
 
A Mercedes sedan probably won't drive off-road as well as a Jeep.

Does that make the Mercedes a bad vehicle? Of course not. Just because they are both automobiles doesn't mean they were designed with the exact frame of thought.
 
Well, I trekked across town today - in my Jeep. Looked over - fondled - a brand new CRK Umnumzaan (Built 8-26-10!). Nice - but just a knife. I pulled the Kershaw blemished JYDII in Ti & SG2 out of my back pocket... it was a whopping $79 new shipped from a guy on our 'for sale' forums here. My regular production version was over twice that several years back - when they were available. It is a really nice knife. Not a $30 Vapor, for sure.

They had bumped the stock Um up to $460, too + s/t - it would have been $500 there - $400 with free shipping most places. I left impressed with that Um - and, a second offer at $400 + s/t, which was 'too late'. The Wilson Combat 'Star-Tac' variant is neater. And... a few $ cheaper - $430 w free s/h. It'll be here Friday.

Why would someone counting their pennies buy one? Yeah, they really are that nice. It will mark a life-change moment - my first SS retirement deposit should be in Wednesday. A special occasion. Okay, it was also Monday... and I sold my last Glock over a dozen years back - to a disgruntled postal employee. Don't need another one!

Stainz

PS My Jeep is an '05 2WD Liberty - a soccer mom's ride - 'Boulevarde Rated' - perfect for carrying my firearms to the range... !
 
It's a thing about knives, doesn't matter who you are / what your finances are, you CAN have the knife you want. It may require planning and saving but it's there to be done. I can see a janitor with a custom folder, floats his boat then who is to talk?

I wouldn't spend more than $125 on a folder myself but it's still great to have the option of going from Chevelle to Corvette. That's what I appreciate about this subject, even as I don't partake of the high ends per se.
 

Baseline:
Cheap Chinese folder- $10-15
RESULT: A barely usable knife or an unsafe POS, it depends. Most people feel they get their moneys worth, if barely.

An inexpensive knife- $25-$45 (CRKT, low end Spyderco, BM, Kershaw etc).
RESULT: Huge difference. The knife should function reasonably well. Most people feel they get their moneys worth. There is some satisfaction and pride in these purchases. Almost no buyers remorse or diminishing returns here.

Low to mid grade folder- $50-100, (Spyderco, BM, Kershaw, CS, etc.)
RESULT: Really big difference. Now you are getting very good construction and higher end blade steel. People are happy with these offerings, they get a good product that could last many, many years. No buyers remorse, and almost no diminishing returns on this class.

Mid to high end production folder- $ 125-250: (Al Mar, ZT, Fallkniven, Emerson, Spyderco, BM, etc)
RESULT: People start to see what the fuss is all about. These are nice knives. A person jumping from a $60 folder will immediately see the difference and understand why he paid so much for the knife. These are knives that you could hand to a total non-knife person and they would probably comment on how nice a knife it is. These are so close to high-end offerings that there is really no practical need to spend anymore for a superb quality folder. Lot’s of pride of ownership involved with this class of folder. Material quality, and construction, is top notch. Blade steel is near, or at the highest level available. The average person knows they paid a lot for the knife, but probably feel they got their moneys worth and would recommend them to others. Probably not too much buyers remorse if the person could afford it in the first place. Diminishing returns are more prevalent at this point.

High end Production folders- $300-500: ( CRK, Strider, Hinderer, etc.)
RESULT: These knives are the epitome of production craftsmanship. Everything (should) be tight, smooth and strong.

But, there is not that much immediate difference between this price point and the $125-250 price point.You could hand one of these knives over to a non-knife person and they may comment on how nice the knife is. If you told them how much it costs, they would probably be shocked and think you were crazy for paying so much for a knife.

You are not getting twice the knife for the money. Most of the cost involved for these knives are for things you can’t even see; tight tolerances, warranty, prestige. Spyderco, Kershaw/ZT and BM make several knives that are more exciting, different, and fun than these knives, for a lot less money. Things you can see in other words.

A person going from a $60 folder may truly wonder why the heck he paid so much for a knife that may not seem all that great. The quality may be obvious, but not for the extra $300 they just dropped. The knife may have annoying traits, (Strider break-in), be much thicker and heavier than he is used to, (Hinderer), or may just seem plain and unexciting compared to his other folders, (CRK). There may be major buyers remorse.

Bottom line, buy what you like, with a design that appeals to you. Forget about the price.
Bragging rights only last so long.

Bearcut, this is an excellent summation of the different price points for knives.
 
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