Are knives weapons, or are they tools?

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JAM said:
The fact I can pick up a piece of pipe and smash someone's skull in with it has no bearing on whether a knife is a weapon.
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So if you're arrested working in a kitchen, holding a chef knife, you'll be charged with possession of a deadly weapon? The point of the thread is that scissors are decidedly tools, swords are decidedly weapons, knives and especially pocket knives are somewhere between the two. Taking a hard stance either way (knives are always weapons, or knives are only tools) is the obvious wrong tactic.

On the other hand, the airplane won't let you board with a baseball bat, a pocket knife, a box cutter, scissors, guns, rocket launchers, cannons, or 20 ounces toothpaste... so what's the difference? A chef's knife is a tool and a karambit is designed to be a weapon (at least to me.) Anything in between is going to be subjective.
 
Lesknife said:
The problem really starts with lack of understanding and a bias towards a preconceived notion of some people.

I grew up and was taught how to use knives as tools just the same as I was taught how to use a screwdriver or a wrench. In some parts of the world where violence is prevalent they might learn early how to use a knife as a weapon for protection or survival.

In our current world where we have lived in convenience with prepackaged food and relative safety the culture has for a large part lost the basic knowledge and skills for using tools we used 50 years ago for the intended purposes. But there are criminals who use knives as a weapon to rob and steal or carry out a vendetta. And those instances get the attention of the media and the public is spoon fed the dramatic version. Then some people are scared silly of any knife.

Now days a small pocket knife with a one inch blade is feared as a weapon by some over reactive persons. Whereas in my days in school just about every boy had a pocket knife and knew how to use it and what it was intended for and it was just accepted as the normal.

So, what it really comes down to is the mindset of the population in general and how knives are perceived to be regardless of the intent.
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I think it's almost as if the opposite is true, back in medieval times people knew the difference between a utility knife, feasting knife to a fighting knife. It seems nowdays people have the assumption that either every knife is a weapon or no knives are weapons and people fail to see the actual middle ground truth.
That is knives are designed with a purpose, how comes people can tell the difference and acknowledge that a chef knife is not the same as a Bushcraft knife, and an electricians knife is not the same as a butchers knife. But they can't tell the difference between a fighting knife and a general purpose knife.
Go up to any medieval person and they will tell you the difference between an eating knife and a bollock dagger, or a carpenters knife and a rondel dagger.
Some knives are utility tools, some of them are weapons.
 
Why are you asking? Legal reasons? Taxonomy? Or something more philosophical? If it's just taxonomy the answer is simple in that you have a superset/subset. Weapons are just a subset of tools, so the most correct answer to, "is a knife a weapon or a tool?" is simply, "yes."
 
According to the law it does!

In my state, a folding knife with a blade length of less than 4 inches, that is not a dagger nor a switchblade, is specifically NOT considered a weapon, unless and until someone is assaulted using it. As I personally experienced while present in court, a hairbrush IS considered a weapon IF you assault someone with it.

So whether or not a knife is a weapon - legally - seems to be contingent on: blade length, is it a dagger? is it a dirk? is it a switchblade? and many other factors, depending on jurisdiction.

Your contention that "all knives are weapons" is prima facie false.


JAM said:
The fact I can pick up a piece of pipe and smash someone's skull in with it has no bearing on whether a knife is a weapon.
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The fact that some knives may be weapons in no way indicates that all knives are weapons.

SOME cars, SOME trucks, SOME airplanes, SOME hairbrushes are weapons. Certainly not ALL of them!

Londinium Armoury said:
Yes and some knives are designed, created and carried to cut slice and stab other humans.
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Insipid Moniker said:
Why are you asking? Legal reasons? Taxonomy? Or something more philosophical? If it's just taxonomy the answer is simple in that you have a superset/subset. Weapons are just a subset of tools, so the most correct answer to, "is a knife a weapon or a tool?" is simply, "yes."
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I made this thread to give people the space to debate the topic, because they were debating this topic in the Cold Steel hate thread, and I though it would make a good discussion. I'm using the terms they were using, by tool they mean utility tool, and by weapon they mean tool made to kill people and a blade made to fight with.
Yes weapons are a subset of tools, but everybody knows what they mean when they pose the question like this, I certainly had no trouble comprehending what they meant when I read their discussion. They mean utility tool.
 
rje58 said:
The fact that some knives may be weapons in no way indicates that all knives are weapons.
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I'm not saying all knives are weapons, I'm saying some knives are weapons and some knives are not.

Rondel = Weapon
Khyber knife = Weapon
Bowie knife = Weapon
SAK = Not a weapon
Traditional Maserin Slip joint = Not a weapon
Opinel No 8 = Not a weapon
 
Londinium Armoury said:
I made this thread to give people the space to debate the topic, because they were debating this topic in the Cold Steel hate thread, and I though it would make a good discussion. I'm using the terms they were using, by tool they mean utility tool, and by weapon they mean tool made to kill people and a blade made to fight with.
Yes weapons are a subset of tools, but everybody knows what they mean when they pose the question like this, I certainly had no trouble comprehending what they meant when I read their discussion. They mean utility tool.
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Well, if they're debating taxonomically they're simply wrong, as they're not using the proper language. If they're asking for legal or philosophical reasons, things get much more complicated. If you want clear, meaningful answers you have to properly frame your question.
 
I use my knife daily for various cutting tasks.
So far I didn't cut any person or animal with either of my knives and I hope it stays that way.

If you ask me - knife is a tool.


There are however knives which are actually designed to be weapons, such as daggers, trench knives and karambits.
Those are built in a way to sacrifice some of their usefulness as tools to make them better weapons.
 
Every pocket knife I have is a tool. If I ever get attacked, and have to use my knife as a self-defense tool, you can be CERTAIN that at that point, it will be an IMPROVISED weapon! That is - never intended for use as such! And only pressed into improvised service as something it was never intended to be used for... just like the drunk driver's hairbrush!

Londinium Armoury said:
The way we use language reveals the truth about the actual definition of the word weapon. Why do we have the term "Improvised Weapon"?.
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rje58 said:
Every pocket knife I have is a tool. If I ever get attacked, and have to use my knife as a self-defense tool, you can be CERTAIN that at that point, it will be an IMPROVISED weapon! That is - never intended for use as such! And only pressed into improvised service as something it was never intended to be used for... just like the drunk driver's hairbrush!
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I agree, that pocket knife was hypothetically used as an improvised weapon. Like I can use a sword to slice a pizza as an improvised pizza cutter or kitchen knife.
 
Smiling said:
I use my knife daily for various cutting tasks.
So far I didn't cut any person or animal with either of my knives and I hope it stays that way.

If you ask me - knife is a tool.


There are however knives which are actually designed to be weapons, such as daggers, trench knives and karambits.
Those are built in a way to sacrifice some of their usefulness as tools to make them better weapons.
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The trench knife is a good example of a fighting knife that is pretty useless at doing anything else, especially with those huge knuckle duster D guards.
 
I actually have a Cold Steel Voyager Vaquero XL and a spyderco Grasshopper on my desk in front of me right now side by side. Very fitting for this thread, the perfect examples of how fighting knives are nothing like basic cutting tools.
 
A knife is a tool. That tool may be designed to be used in combat against people, in which case the tool is a type of weapon. It may not be designed to be used in combat, but used in combat anyway, in which case it has become a weapon.

My state defines dangerous weapons in I think a pretty good way. An implement that is designed to be used or is actually used to inflict death or great bodily harm on another person.
 
We agree that not all knives are weapons, where we may disagree is that many knives you consider "weapons" I would consider tools, or at most, in a gray area. My position is that most knives, especially the vast majority of pocket (folding) knives are tools, that even most fixed blade knives are tools, that there are small percentage of knives that are "weapons", and a percentage may fall into a gray area of "tools and/or weapons".

I don't consider all Bowie knives to be weapons, for example. There are too many varieties, and way too much gray area in that case.

I would like to point out that on commerce sites that sell knives in addition to other items, I have never seen knives listed under the category "weapons" or anything similar. They are either listed under "tools", "sporting goods", "outdoor gear", or even "collectibles" and other categories, but never under "weapons", and I don't even recall seeing them listed under "self-defense".

Londinium Armoury said:
I'm not saying all knives are weapons, I'm saying some knives are weapons and some knives are not.

Rondel = Weapon
Khyber knife = Weapon
Bowie knife = Weapon
SAK = Not a weapon
Traditional Maserin Slip joint = Not a weapon
Opinel No 8 = Not a weapon
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Londinium Armoury said:
This is actually exactly what I say more or less. I say no I don't have a weapon but I do have a legal knife in my right pocket, and another small legal knife in my fifth right pocket.
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The Correct answer is, Smile politely while you say "I DO NOT authorize Any warrantless searches"
.....And then keep your mouth shut!
 
The knife on my Leatherman Wave is a tool. I would throw the Wave at someones head before I would use the knife as a weapon. That solid chunk of metal would do more damage and probably at least distract them enough for me to run.
 
rje58 said:
In my state, a folding knife with a blade length of less than 4 inches, that is not a dagger nor a switchblade, is specifically NOT considered a weapon, unless and until someone is assaulted using it.
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And tell me why those blades needed to be specifically excepted in the law as "not weapons"??? Do they have a maximum length that a wrench can be before it is a weapon? No. And we all know why.

And why has Bastler had a conversation with his lawyer about how to describe his pocket knife to the cops when asked about weapons? Do you think he questioned him about how to describe the hammer or wrenches in a tool bag in his floorboard? NO! AND WE ALL KNOW WHY. Common sense.
 
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