Are most knives today too thick.

[bodog]

I just put a really thin knife in 52100 through a pretty nasty test. Bear with me, it'll take a little bit of time to post the pictures.

This knife is thinner than a Spyderco santoku. I was able to baton, stress the tip, cut relatively thick aluminum, and attempted to cut through the mouth of a glass jar. The aluminum damaged the edge, but not bad. It wasn't until going straight to stupid and tried batoning through thick glass that real damage occured.

My question is if a super thin knife in a fairly basic steel can do this, why in the hell are we seeing super thick knives? When I say that, Im talking about knives easily 4 or 5 times as thick. When I can do that with a knife that makes a spyderco military look like a busse, it should raise the question: What are knife manufacturers doing?

BCMW knife vs ZT 0180. The 0180 is made for abuse and isn't really all that thick, to be honest. This knife is really just that thin.

Dedicated kitchen knife on the left, spyderco santoku, vs. BCMW Utility knife on the right.

BCMW vs spyderco military. The military is generally considered a thin, very effective slicer.

Knife vs. stuff

Of course it's shaving sharp

First victim. At first I was going to baton through it like you would a tree but decided against it and pushed straight through it with some help from a thick branch. I cut through it until it separated on its own.

I stabbed fairly deep

Flex one way

And the other

And then cut a hole through the piece of wood. Requirede to push in and twist out.

Board thickness

And baton through it, cross grained

Turned board sideways for better photo

Driving straight through it

 

[bodog]

Whatever kind of this wood is plus paint. Two solid chops.

And decided to baton this one straight through, too

And just to show I wasn't favoring the thickest part. It's hard to tell but I was batoning so hard the knife stuck into the deck wood when the moulding gave way.

And the moulding started breaking apart on its own

And now I wanted to stress the thinnest part. I stabbed in just enough for the tip to get a solid bite and pried straight sideways. You can't see it that well but the blade is bending and the wood is giving. That's maybe a millimeter or two of the blade.

Here's after doing it both ways

And I decided to really get after it. I didn't pry straight out. The knife was too thin and flexible right at the tip. I stabbed in and kind of rotated out a little.

 

[buckfynn]

Reserved

Say what? What do you mean by reserved?

 

[stabman]

Here's the whole debate for you:

"Yes!"
"No!"
"Maybe."

Your'e welcome.

 

[bodog]

And now some abuse for a knife this thin. It's really thin at the shoulders. Almost a razor blade at the edge and just behind it. Oh, and my dog was really curious.

Cutting up several cans. It's not the fact that it did it. It's how easy it did it with zero edge damage that I could see. And that it's 62+ RC.

And I went and started trying to hack at the rim of the can. I've found that this is a very harsh test of an edge. Most I've tested this way chip or roll. This one did really well considering how thin it is. Most show damage and they're quite a bit thicker. I'm not looking forward to sharpening this out but it shouldn't take that long considering how thin it is.

And so I threw caution to the wind

And then cut the lid up

And the only damage came from wrist chopping at the rim of a can which I've not personally seen any knife do without some kind of damage.

So I decided to do some of the same somewhat abusive stuff with my spyderco mule team 19 in PSF27 which is supposed to be as tough as A2. The mule team blade is thicker at the shoulders. You can tell the BMCW is harder because equivalent hammer blows cause less damage on the spine.

Here are the results. You can see that the mule team obviously did better, but as far as I can reasonably tell, it's softer, thicker, and didn't do THAT much better. The entire edge of the mule team looms like crap whereas only specific portions of the BMCW blade are screwed up. As a matter of fact, the majority if the BMCW blade still shaves a little bit whereas the MT19 doesn't at all. So take that however you want.

Do this and quite a few blades' edges will buckle immediately. I have faith in what Bluntcut Metalworks is doing, whatever it is. If a knife this thin can do this kind of stuff then I'm impressed.

Now, if a knife this thin and hard can do this stuff, most makers have no excuse for going substantially thicker and softer. Maybe one or the other but most do both. There's no reason for it except to pander to the masses who believe thicker and softer equals better.

 

[philwar]

People like sturdy knives. I know I do. It's not an altogether rational thing, the Military is probably the folder I carry the most. But I like folders with a 4-5 mm thick blade. I sold a ZDP Stretch 'cause I didn't like its looks. It's a perfect knife ergonomically and practically, but it looked fragile to me. It's why I like Cold Steel and ZT. But carry Spydercos most of the time, LOL. I agree that thinner knives do just about anything you want from them, and most things a lot better than thicker knives. But...

The eyes want their part.

 

[The Aflac Duck]

Here's the whole debate for you:

"Yes!"
"No!"
"Maybe."

Your'e welcome.

"No! Your knives are stupid!"

"Are not!!!"

"Are too!!!"

 

[Mitchell Knives]

It's mostly an issue of aesthetics or perceived value; the idea that bigger is better.

For whatever reason, a lot of people think that they "need" an overbuilt, massive knife for general EDC tasks.

 

[Rapt_up]

I would say the answer is it depends.... on what you want the knife to "do".

If you're a knife manufacturer then you wan the knife to sell, work moderately well and not have undue returns or warrantee claims. You're going to want the knife to be thicker than it "needs" to be because you don't know who is going to be doing what with it.

If you're a relatively light or inexperienced user you want a knife that looks good and you can't break even if you do something relatively foolish like try to pry open a jar lid or such. So you want a thicker knife.

If you're a heavy user who knows what to do and not do with a knife, but you know you're going to want/need to pry with it or abuse it at times and you want to know you can rely on it, you're going to want a thicker knife, and you're willing to push harder in trade off.

If you're a serious user who probably has several or at least a couple knives and other tools for doing various tasks then you want a knife that cuts well and easily and stays sharp. You want a thin knife for slicing and dicing with little effort and a thick one for hacking and chopping. And a prybar for prying...

 

[HwangJino]

I like my work knives thin (kitchen) and my fun blades thick (outdoor).
I agree, it isn't needed, but it works.

 

[Ankerson]

It's mostly an issue of aesthetics or perceived value; the idea that bigger is better.

For whatever reason, a lot of people think that they "need" an overbuilt, massive knife for general EDC tasks.

It's called marketing...

Personally I would rather have a knife that I can really cut stuff with, nice and thin.

 

[craytab]

The knives you buy are only as thick as the knives you buy, or make, or whatever.....:thumbup:

 

[Cobalt]

The knives you buy are only as thick as the knives you buy, or make, or whatever.....:thumbup:

True statement, lol.


This knife is a ridiculously thick knife. IT is a very low saber where convex in the last half inch to the edge. 1/4" thick. There is no way to make this cut well without some heavy work. I love the looks, but the knife is nearly useless.

This one is nearly as bad:

And the famous ka-bar, truly a terrible geometry:

 

[Constant Gardener]

Too thick for slicing? Maybe. Too thick for chopping? Maybe not. It all depends on the application. It all depends on personal preference and opinion. I feel thin blade could do all that you demonstrated, but for how long? How many times can it take that kind of use before snapping from the stress?

 

[Melvin-Purvis]

Too thick for toe-jam. Didn't you read the original post?

 

[DeadboxHero]

Bodog. Nice pictures man. Looks like fun.

 

[dogrunner]

Great topic. I was using my ZT 0180 today and thinking, this thing cuts pretty well... for a thick blade.
The two folders I am carrying right now are a spyderco military that is my favorite chore knife for cutting stuff, and a Medford bar of D2 (187 DPT) that looks and feels like it would survive anything. It also cuts reasonably well but weighs a lot more than the mili.
Just received a Big Chris mini-wolverine in 4V that he reshaped for me to resemble a mili - the tip is very fine. This knife looks like it will be an excellent cutter, but that tip (and the mili's) ask for care. The ZT and Medford don't ask for anything
I have broken a tip before (PM2 in S30V) so you do have to be more careful about application of force (or using a tool in a situation where undue force may occur).
So my bottom line is - I prefer thinner blades but always carry a thicker one too. (I guess that is my logic, or maybe I'm just talking myself into the need )/

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Most knives today too thick? Definitely.

 

[Constant Gardener]

Too thick for toe-jam. Didn't you read the original post?

Yes I did. It was an open ended question. Too thick for what. Are all thick knives useless.

 

[Hawgsnawt]

I feel thin blade could do all that you demonstrated, but for how long? How many times can it take that kind of use before snapping from the stress?

This right here is the answer you are looking for... yes, a thin knife can do the job, but how many can do the job daily for years and still preform well afterwards...

Till metals exist that can withstand that kind of daily abuse in wafer thin blades, adding thickness is the only way to add durability...as long as broken blades = bad press and less knives sold, makers will overbuild to preserve their own reputations....

I'd come a lot closer to buying a knife advertised as " unbreakable, able to handle ANYTHING you throw at it " than I would one advertised as " Thinnest knife you can get and still get by, for awhile, if you baby it "