Are most knives today too thick.

Manufacturers respond to guys who break their knives and then beef them up. Sad as then they don't slice nicely. DM
 
David Martin said:
Manufacturers respond to guys who break their knives and then beef them up. Sad as then they don't slice nicely. DM
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You wouldn't use a thin Michigan double side felling axe to split a winters worth of fire place wood. You wouldn't use a 12 pound maul to fell trees.

You don't use thick knives to slice. The rest can be figured out.

Manufacturers realize people do more than slice with knives.
 
Slicing is part of what knife should do, or it isn't much of a knife...

I wonder why the issue of blade thickness is so often brought up, when far more relevant is the issue of edge bevel thickness... Who cares how thick is the blade, what matters is what is going on at the point of contact...

I think bringing up the issue of blade thickness regarding cutting performance, combined with some vague notion of "toughness", is approaching it from exactly the wrong end...: Blade thickness is only about how much lateral prying or lateral load/shock resistance you want (splitting action seems even less relevant to the issue of cutting to me): Prying or lateral load/shocks are completely irrelevant to cutting performance, or to edge resistance to damage while cutting...

Also, on larger knives, overall blade thickness may rob some cutting performance but restitute it with chopping momentum: This makes the issue of overall blade thickness even less relevant to actual cutting performance... Overall blade thickness is pretty much like discussing the effect of passenger capacity on a car's racing performance, while discussing the edge bevel thickness is more like discussing the car's power/weight ratio: A far more sensitive and relevant issue...

Gaston
 
Duane Sanders said:
You wouldn't use a thin Michigan double side felling axe to split a winters worth of fire place wood. You wouldn't use a 12 pound maul to fell trees.

You don't use thick knives to slice. The rest can be figured out.

Manufacturers realize people do more than slice with knives.
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:thumbup: for a long time the market (meaning those with several hundred dollars to spend on a single knife) demanded beefier, tougher, thicker, stronger blades. Blades made from all manner of modern steel. Manufacturers stepped up and decided to make them, going so far as to make knives with 6mm thick blades at some point. People not only bought them, it almost reinvented the basic knife market as we (aficionados) know it today. It brought the Medfords, the Graymans, the Direwires, the new and improved ZTs, and much, much more. Not everyone that buys a knife has the intent to use it, some folks collect them and just appreciate the quality and craftsmanship. Nothing wrong with that at all. Some people use every single knife they get their hands on since you can't take them with you. Two different paradigms, both are correct, both are good, neither is wrong.
 
bodog said:
If you can give me approximate dimensions I'll go out tomorrow and do the same thing with this same knife. I'll take photos and post the results, good, bad, or ugly. I just showed I can use a carpenter's hammer to baton the knife through between an inch and four inches if wood. I'll do it with a rock or a piece if concrete, too. I'm not worried.

And you wouldn't believe how much easier it is using a thin knife.
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It was an inch, inch and half branch that had been off the tree for a short time.

I dont doubt its easier it's just fun to beat a thick blade through stuff. And it was fun to use a rock
 
Duane Sanders said:
You wouldn't use a thin Michigan double side felling axe to split a winters worth of fire place wood. You wouldn't use a 12 pound maul to fell trees.

You don't use thick knives to slice. The rest can be figured out.

Manufacturers realize people do more than slice with knives.
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You're missing the point. Here's a super thin knife that can be pounded on quite a bit. Nothing is wrong with carrying a thick knife if someone wants to but if the knifemaker did what they were supposed to do most people could use thin knives easier than and abuse them as much as thick. Barring getting into territory that only a few manufacturers warranty the knives for, anyway.

The point is simply that thin knives, when done right, work better for most things and can withstand true use. Most people haven't had a knife be that thin and simultaneously using good steel heat treated well. They think they need the thick knives because they haven't tried a thin knife. That's not to say a thick knife isn't needed, it is, sometimes. But for most people? I doubt it. I just wanted to show what a good knife with appropriate steel heat treated well could actually do. I don't see many, if any, thread talking about thin knives being used for anything more than kitchen or fillet knives or simple box cutters.
 
This thread mirrors another discussion, and my general belief is that you buy what you want. Many don't know what they like or want. That's okay and part of the hobby. I have thick and thin knives, but tend to use the thinner bladed knives. It is just a matter of time and testing the waters..... It doesn't particularly bother me if I own 100 knives that I never use even though in many cases each were purchased to use.

At this point in time, I tend to lean toward knives with thinner blade stock, but I have no particular problem buying what people might consider a sharpened pry bar either. It is a matter of resource allotment and what catches my eye.
 
I had been looking at an Esee 6, and a couple friends told me I should get one. But for something I'm going to carry into the woods when I hunt or hike...It felt unnecessary. Too thick and heavy. So I settled for a Buck Reaper I picked up from the big blue mart. The reaper is nice and thin(ish) it slices well and chops well. I like thinner fixed blades because they're lighter, to me they slice better, get a better bite when chopping. To me something that cuts is more useful than a sharpened pry-bar, but once upon a time, I really liked RAT blades and Esee and all of the thick blades. It's just changed.
 
22-rimfire said:
This thread mirrors another discussion, and my general belief is that you buy what you want. Many don't know what they like or want. That's okay and part of the hobby. I have thick and thin knives, but tend to use the thinner bladed knives. It is just a matter of time and testing the waters..... It doesn't particularly bother me if I own 100 knives that I never use even though in many cases each were purchased to use.

At this point in time, I tend to lean toward knives with thinner blade stock, but I have no particular problem buying what people might consider a sharpened pry bar either. It is a matter of resource allotment and what catches my eye.
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I agree, but I'll expand a little.

Do people buy what they need or what they think they need based on prevailing overwhelming marketing? Leave cleaving knives out of it, we all know you cant substitute anything for brute force chopping. But what about other knives? In most of these tests the handle, pivot, or lock breaks before the blade. That's like having a jet engine in a pinto. If the entire design isn't consistently built for abuse, then why not get something that is simply designed better? A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, right? Same goes with knives.

Don't get me wrong, thick knives are good sometimes. If you go with a guy who heat treats certain steels to their maximum capacity in whatever trait you want then you can get by with lower and lower specs. IMO that's what the knife market should be demanding, until we get a laser knife that weighs 2 ounces. If you could get a blade with .100 inch stock that can take whatever you could reasonably throw at it, wouldn't you rather have that than a blade that needs to be .25 inches thick to do the same stuff? That question is kind of directed at anyone. I know I'd rather get a leaner, lighter knife that can do what I need instead of carrying a pocket sword for no reason. I wouldn't walk around with a Scottish long sword. I'm sure it could probably do stuff a normal knife couldn't and I don't doubt it at all. But there comes a point where something is just ridiculous.

I'd rather us all try to force knife manufacturers to step up in the heat treatment fields instead of asking them to make thicker and thicker knives that end up being at least a little ridiculous. When your pocket knife is thicker than a hatchet, something is wrong.
 
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Thank you, bodog, for this post. Very interesting.

I think that most people buy overly thick blades these days because of the hype and marketing have pushed them. Marketing when combined with hype can sell chrome plated horse patties if need be. What's interesting is, the old mountain men didn't think twice about carrying what was large butcher knives into the Rocky mountain winters. And as far as the much talked of "hard use knife" just look at any construction site and see what is the most hard ted knives in the world; the replaceable blade utility knife. A blade that is all of one inch in length, and about the thickness of a razor blade. They get dull before they break in most cases.

I read someplace not too long ago, that 80% of people live in an urban environment, unlike our grandfathers who lived a more rural lifestyle. Yet the knives from their era all have blades a great deal thiner than the sharpened pry bars we have now. Blades of 1/8th inch were very common, and the regular pocket knife blade was more like 3/32. But those old knives served on the farm, in the slaughterhouse, and in combat during WW2.

It just seems like the tactical knife birth in the late 1980's has a whole generation of knife users thinking a thin blade will break if you look at it hard.
 
jackknife said:
Thank you, bodog, for this post. Very interesting.

I think that most people buy overly thick blades these days because of the hype and marketing have pushed them. Marketing when combined with hype can sell chrome plated horse patties if need be. What's interesting is, the old mountain men didn't think twice about carrying what was large butcher knives into the Rocky mountain winters. And as far as the much talked of "hard use knife" just look at any construction site and see what is the most hard ted knives in the world; the replaceable blade utility knife. A blade that is all of one inch in length, and about the thickness of a razor blade. They get dull before they break in most cases.

I read someplace not too long ago, that 80% of people live in an urban environment, unlike our grandfathers who lived a more rural lifestyle. Yet the knives from their era all have blades a great deal thiner than the sharpened pry bars we have now. Blades of 1/8th inch were very common, and the regular pocket knife blade was more like 3/32. But those old knives served on the farm, in the slaughterhouse, and in combat during WW2.

It just seems like the tactical knife birth in the late 1980's has a whole generation of knife users thinking a thin blade will break if you look at it hard.
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I've been there. Sometimes I've done things with knives that WOULD break thinner blades. I carry both. I make no bones about it though. The two knives I carry a consistent design concept throughout. Lighter uses get the folder. More demanding uses get the fixed blade. If I had to carry one knife, it'd be some kind of medium thin fixed blade with tough steel hardened to withstand some stupidity. If I can get a knife like that to be stupid thin, hard, and with at least good edge retention, that, my friend, is the best of all worlds. Just my opinion based on my needs and experience.
 
I agree in principal that MOST responsible and experienced knife users can get away with a thinner knife than they probably think. That's GREAT when you are dealing with a custom knife made to your specs.

When you make a mainstream 'production' knife, you kind of have to build it in for the lowest common denomination. You chipped the crap out of that blade while abusing it but sadly there are people out there who would have just come on here and blasted the knife for being a chippy piece of junk.

Look at Shun kitchen knives. There are a lot of responsible kitchen knife owners out there who love them and never have any issues. Then you have the people who think expensive knives will make up for their lack of skills, they chip the shit out of them and next thing you know its, 'Shun knives suck'.
 
For me ,with my daily needs, I don't need my pocket knife to make precision cuts. I just need it to separate material, among other things.

My carry folder of choice isn't overly thick but the grind isn't designed for slicing.

If slicing is important, cool. There are many knives designed to do that. An Opinel will do that much much better than my folder.

Thin, clean slicing just isn't important for me.
 
I personally go for thinner ground blades. Thick wedges make little sense for MY knife uses. Hard use axe blades are all the rage so it makes sense for a lot of others though.
 
Scurvy092 said:
I agree in principal that MOST responsible and experienced knife users can get away with a thinner knife than they probably think. That's GREAT when you are dealing with a custom knife made to your specs.

When you make a mainstream 'production' knife, you kind of have to build it in for the lowest common denomination. You chipped the crap out of that blade while abusing it but sadly there are people out there who would have just come on here and blasted the knife for being a chippy piece of junk.

Look at Shun kitchen knives. There are a lot of responsible kitchen knife owners out there who love them and never have any issues. Then you have the people who think expensive knives will make up for their lack of skills, they chip the shit out of them and next thing you know its, 'Shun knives suck'.
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Fair enough. I know what I did with that blade isn't what I'd normally do with a knife. If I just used it normally based on what I saw, I doubt I'd have any problems at all. But the photos would suck cutting boxes open and chopping at random moldy wood. I also know that I couldn't use the knife to unstick panels on refrigeration units. Now I'm wondering how well it'd cut stuff like tires. Maybe I'll post some pics of that pretty soon. I kind of doubt many people need to be able to do that with their folding knives, though.
 
Scurvy092 said:
I agree in principal that MOST responsible and experienced knife users can get away with a thinner knife than they probably think. That's GREAT when you are dealing with a custom knife made to your specs.

When you make a mainstream 'production' knife, you kind of have to build it in for the lowest common denomination. You chipped the crap out of that blade while abusing it but sadly there are people out there who would have just come on here and blasted the knife for being a chippy piece of junk.

Look at Shun kitchen knives. There are a lot of responsible kitchen knife owners out there who love them and never have any issues. Then you have the people who think expensive knives will make up for their lack of skills, they chip the shit out of them and next thing you know its, 'Shun knives suck'.
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They do suck. I'm a chef and I don't ever abuse my kitchen knives, but shun has been known for chippy edges. Plus their ergonomics is designed by Tonka trucks (joke). Many chef forums will have the same things said.
 
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