Are people influenced too easily when it comes to knife steel?

Once upon a time, and not really all that long ago, 154CM and ATS-34 were considered super-steels! I had a working bowie made in ATS-34 about 30 years ago, it's never failed, and it still gets sharp. Is CPM-154 better? Of course. Doesn't mean my bowie is going to suddenly experience catastrophic failure simply because there's a better steel out there. VG-10 with its cobalt addition was high-tech, 40 years ago. It's still an easy to sharpen alloy, one that gets screaming sharp, and it holds an edge acceptably well, for most people.

I think it's only fair to point out that while 52100 is considered by many to be a super-steel in the carbon-steel realm, it's a very simple alloy that has been around for more than 100 years. It was when bladesmiths began forging it into knives that seemed almost magical in performance, thinking late 70s, early 80s, that most people heard of it for the first time. Not going to look for the info, but I believe it was Ed Halligan who really got that train rolling. And 15N20 was hardly ever used in knives until it became popular as one of the alloys used in forging damascus. 40 years ago, it seemed most of the smiths I was talking to only used 15N20 for contrast in their damascus blades.

The older steels are not obsolete, just not popular.

Blade steel is one of the last specs I care about. If everything else is done correctly, heat-treatment, grind, edge geometry, etc, I can usually make up for any deficiencies, real or imagined, simply by adjusting my cutting technique. And if the knife I have isn't up to the job, I MUCH prefer to procure the proper tool to perform the task at hand most efficiently with the least amount of effort, and preferably the least chance of dying from complications of accidental death or dismemberment(it's more common than you might think. I'd say check it, but you know I'm right). I'm not exactly a 'work smarter, not harder' kind of guy, I'm just lazy. But I'm good at it, guess there's not a lot of difference.....
 
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justjed said:
Once upon a time, and not really all that long ago, 154CM and ATS-34 were considered super-steels! I had a working bowie made in ATS-34 about 30 years ago, it's never failed, and it still gets sharp. Is CPM154 better? Of course. Doesn't mean my bowie is going to suddenly experience catastrophic failure simply because there's a better steel out there. VG-10 with its cobalt addition was high-tech, 40 years ago. It's still an easy to sharpen alloy, one that gets screaming sharp, and it holds an edge acceptably well, for most people.

I think it's only fair to point out that while 52100 is considered by many to be a super-steel in the carbon-steel realm, it's a very simple alloy that has been around for more than 100 years. It was when bladesmiths began forging it into knives that seemed almost magical in performance, thinking late 70s, early 80s, that most people heard of it for the first time. Not going to look for the info, but I believe it was Ed Halligan who really got that train rolling. And 15N20 was hardly ever used in knives until it became popular as one of the alloys used in forging damascus. 40 years ago, it seemed most of the smiths I was talking to only used 15N20 for contrast in their damascus blades.

The older steels are not obsolete, just not popular.

Blade steel is on of the last specs I care about. If everything else is done correctly, heat-treatment, grind, edge geometry, etc, I can usually make up for any deficiencies, real or imagined, simply by adjusting my cutting technique. And if the knife I have isn't up to the job, I MUCH prefer to procure the proper tool to perform the task at hand most efficiently with the least amount of effort, and preferably the least chance of dying from complications of accidental death or dismemberment(it's more common than you might think. I'd say check it, but you know I'm right). I'm not exactly a 'work smarter, not harder' kind of guy, I'm just lazy. But I'm good at it, guess there's not a lot of difference.....
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I may be considered average or slightly below your average knifers steel opinion, depending on whether you value knowledge or ability, which I have a bit of knowledge, no ability, but I am learning to sharpen and care.

I consider 154CM to be one of the top relaible stainless steels... I would never scoff at it. I use everything from Inox and 420 to Maxamet, though I can't maintain that yet. I have a heavy, heavy feeling though, that I will "end up" with steels like Cruwear, 3V, Rex45, maybe one in 10V class, and then a bunch of stuff in XHP and good 420, 12c27, etc. I guess what I am trying to say is people on this forum respect a lot of steels, it is not an elitist hut, here on BF. Nobody thinks they NEED Maxamet and everyone seems ta be real aware about, you know, the fact it's a hobby, fact that its fun.

ATS-34, idk, I have a serrated 55, which I believe is the non-austeric (whichever when the blade can't operate under high temps) version. Or the martinistic?
 
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justjed said:
…and preferably the least chance of dying from complications of accidental death or dismemberment(it's more common than you might think. I'd say check it, but you know I'm right).
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Im kinda lazy myself in many ways, but I’m 100% opposed to accidental dismemberment. I devoutly believe that if dismemberment becomes necessary, it should be deliberate and methodical, an informed decision after thorough consideration of all other options.

Aron Ralston comes to mind, the poster boy of deliberate dismemberment.

Also, I think you mean Ed Fowler about 52100.

Carry on.

Parker
 
Best rules of thumb are buy what you can afford, buy what you need, buy what you like , buy what you want, and don’t let anyone else’s opinions bother you.

As I said before, I like mostly the simple older steels for my needs but I do own some “super(ish) steels” that I really like. All things being equal, I would definitely replace some of the older steels with the newer stuff, if it was justified in my mind. I love 1095 and 420hc, but if I could get my favorite Buck, ESEE, and Becker knives in cpm-3v for similar price points (and in some cases thinner blade stock), I would definitely do so. So for me, it’s not a necessity and it’s nothing I dwell on, because what I have works just fine. But I am definitely not opposed to the newer stuff if it makes sense for me.
 
Ninety nine percent of my knives are simply knives I purchased to have in my eclectic hobby in collecting. That being the case, what steel they were made from usually had no relevance in my decision to acquire them. I say "usually" because sometimes the type of steel did somewhat matter when I wanted to add the knife's steel into the diversity aspect of my collection. But, most often it's more my simply liking a knife for any number of different reasons.
As for knives that I use, I lean towards the plain jane basics, like Aus-8 or 420hc because, while they won't hold an edge anywhere as long as the constantly incoming super steels do, they get the job done for my needs, and... they can be easily sharpened with something as easy to obtain as a smooth stone found outside on the ground. They performing good enough to get common tasks done, and not requiring anything special to resharpen, makes them more ideal for my use.
Of course that's just my opinion and choice, it's all good to have different views on these sort of matters 😊
 
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The one thing to remember about the latest super steel is that it will eventually drop off of that "super steel" list.
I mean, as an example, 440c dropped off that list quite a while ago, although it's obviously still a good steel.
So, chasing the latest and greatest will wind up becoming a lifelong thing. It's not a problem if the knife enthusiast understands and is willing to accept that 👍😊👍
 
catspa said:
Im kinda lazy myself in many ways, but I’m 100% opposed to accidental dismemberment. I devoutly believe that if dismemberment becomes necessary, it should be deliberate and methodical, an informed decision after thorough consideration of all other options.

Aron Ralston comes to mind, the poster boy of deliberate dismemberment.

Also, I think you mean Ed Fowler about 52100.
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I feel I must point out that there IS a difference between cutting your arm off to save your own life, and unexpectedly having pieces of it go flying off into the wild blue yonder because the tool you chose was not optimum for the task.

And thanks! Yeah, Ed Fowler. I knew Halligan wasn't the name I was looking for, but it's the only one that came to mind last night. Perhaps a bit less of the medicinal herb might benefit the thought process....
 
justjed said:
I feel I must point out that there IS a difference between cutting your arm off to save your own life, and unexpectedly having pieces of it go flying off into the wild blue yonder because the tool you chose was not optimum for the task.
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I wholeheartedly agree, and am pleased to report that my pieces are mostly still attached. At least until I make my next foolish knife choice. But so far, so good.

Parker
 
000Robert said:
But super-steels are here. Why not take advantage of them?
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I have nothing against super steels; I think that are great but if I have to choose between two different knives other factors are more important to me than the blade steel. If a manufacturer offers the same knife with 2 different steels, I am thinking of special knife runs, I will go after the one with a super steel. Steel choice is important just not the most important consideration when buying a knife. That is true for me, other people have their own priorities when selecting a knife.
 
I just want to ask. Why do people "less influenced by knife steels" mostly talk about 1095? There are a whole arrange of lower carbon variant of 1095 (1065 to 1090) and there are low alloy like 5160, but I only every them mentioned and praised in older posts. Nowadays, on this forums, it is mostly 1095. I find most of the 1095 are so thick, therefore heavy, for a steel considered tough.
I'm not a knife maker, so correct me on this if I'm wrong. Though I hear that the lower carbon steels, despite being gradually cheaper the lower carbon content they have, they are gradually harder to heat treat. This is not great for mass manufacturing in good spec (say, 56 to 60 HRC) since heat treatment cost more than the steel, even if the results are about as good (would love Mr.Larrin to test more plain carbon blades for this). They are usually considered more though, to which I usually hear that "if I need to use something that tough, I would use another tool" argument.
KaBar's 1095Cro-Van (CV) has more enforcing elements than some low alloy classes (50xx and 51xx), but all of its attributes are credited to the 1095 baseline. Case also used similar with their carbon Cro-Van (CV) , but no one ever think much about it, because it is 1085 base?
Yes, you used knives more than me, harder than me. Nevertheless, I don't think that you are impervious to the hype, influence, and marketing of "good simple old steel". There are target marketing for that corner of the market.
 
Sometimes you just get used to a certain steel type over the years.
Makes you feel comfortable since you know exactly how to maintain the sharpness.
Even with newer high end steels, you keep on grabbing the old familiar S30/35V.
Sometimes you just want to stick to what you know well.
In custom folders RWL/ATS-34 is still often used and I still like this as well.

I'll mainly stick for folders to Buck 440C, S30/35V and M390. Still no need for an upgrade yet.
 
I have knives with blades made from the old tried and true steels and from of the newer steels..........
I do like not having to sharpen the newer steel blades as often.
Although I choose a knife on the following...........
Is it a quality made knife?
Will the knife handle fit my hand?
Is the blade shape good for the task?
AND.......it's a knife!
I collect knives!
I have more knives than I need in this life........and I want more knives !
Oh God help me.........LOL
 
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