Are some knife Mfg. Using cult following to boost their profits.

[SpySmasher]

... propping up a false valuation on their other knives ...

Or are they not undercutting the true valuation of their knives?!

Which is the same thing because the "value" (you are really referring to "price") is always determined by supply and demand. There's no such thing as a "false price." There is just a price. Pay it or don't.

This is just my hypothesis. Spyderco in NO WAY produces a TON of knives in superior steels, but the 5 to 10 knives that they do produce in superior steels makes it look like their entire line-up is the penultimate resource for these steels. It is not, but it creates an image, a false valuation on their other knives in S30V and VG10.

This is nonsense on so many levels it's terrific.

The knife enthusiasts who are the only purchasers of sprint-run knives are able to differentiate between common and rare steels. They are not:

• Going to be fooled into thinking that VG-10 is "worth" more because Spyderco produces a different knife in REX45.
• Going to be fooled into thinking that a few sprint runs means that Spyderco is the only source for rare steels.
• Going to use the words "penultimate resource" when they mean "ultimate source."

Propping up the value of your entire inventory over 5 to 10 products that your fan base wants and sells out in a matter of hrs to days is smart.

Again, this is entirely mistaken.

A big part of why Spyderco succeeds is because they serve different market segments equally well. The sale of a sprint-run PM2 is going to have no bearing on the sale of a Smock, a Tenacious, a Santoku, a Cara Cara, or even a vanilla PM2. However, putting out quality knives of a multitude of designs and various price points IS what has built their brand reputation. That is what they are known for -- not for putting out a few sprints. Sprints are only a small part of a big Spyderco puzzle and probably the least important.

 

[Makael]

Or are they not undercutting the true valuation of their knives?!

Which is the same thing because the "value" (you are really referring to "price") is always determined by supply and demand. There's no such thing as a "false price." There is just a price. Pay it or don't.

This is nonsense on so many levels it's terriffic.

The knife enthusiasts who are the only purchasers of sprint-run knives are able to differentiate between common and rare steels. They are not:

• Going to be fooled into thinking that VG-10 is "worth" more because Spyderco produces a different knife in REX45.
• Going to be fooled into thinking that a few sprint runs means that Spyderco is the only source for rare steels.
• Going to use the words "penultimate resource" when they mean "ultimate source."

Again, this is entirely mistaken.

A big part of why Spyderco succeeds is because they serve different market segments equally well. The sale of a sprint-run PM2 is going to have no bearing on the sale of a Smock, a Tenacious, a Santoku, a Cara Cara, or even a vanilla PM2. However, putting out quality knives of a multitude of designs and various price points IS what has built their brand reputation. That is what they are known for -- not for putting out a few sprints. Sprints are only a small part of a big Spyderco puzzle and probably the least important.

Couldn't of said that any better. Thank you

 

[cbrstar]

If Spyderco is a cult then pass the blurple juice lol.

Collecting Spyderco's is fun. I used to think when I saw people on youtube with 20+ spyderco boxes they were a little mad, but now I want to be one of them. So I understand why the sprints came about. It's because the avg Spyderco fan just doesn't have the one knife so they eventually end up wanting something more special and unique. For instance my PM2 is a freaking amazing knife, so why wouldn't I want one that's just slightly better?

It takes years to build up a "cult" following with positive customer service and a product that doesn't disappoint. Just look at Sal from Spyderco, what CEO do you know of that goes out of his way to interact with his customers like he does? He's amazing! It's like if Bill Gates gave you personal tech support, or the ceo of Ford asked you personally what you liked about their cars and how to improve them. That's why at least in my case I'm a Spyderco fan for life.

It takes hard work and dedication to build up a fan base, there's nothing mystical about it.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Another reason why the lovely folks at spyderco don't want parts sitting on shelves.....CQI, they are a batch builder, that's what they do best. Other companies can afford to have parts that they know they will use up, or can later use for special runs and that's okay.

Also the consistent misuse of the word cult. Brand loyalty that is rewarded is not a cult. Brand loyalty when you can't even have a chance at owning the product, that is a cult.

 

[Dangerously]

Really? It makes me wonder if you've seen or heard of some of Instagram "knife manufacturers" that seem to have a cult following?

The “product” in that case is status among an Instagram community, not a tool. One could argue that their prices are really expensive for knives, but pretty cheap for status.

 

[bikerector]

I find some knife Mfg.s have a cult following of their knives, for example Spyderco, have many of the same type knives that they change handle color and Material they change the blade Material, they make a "sprint Run" and the prices go from the $140 to $225 as an example.
And people are begging for new sprint runs of the same knives, it seems to be working well i feel are they using these sprint runs to just boost their profits?

Using "cult following" is really an inflammatory way of saying "loyal customer." Some may be more excited about the product than others. Creating a loyal customer is, or should be, the goal of every business because that establishes a scenario where you have reliable revenue based on your reputation rather than by specifications of your product. If you are only able to sell a product based on the specs then consumers jump ship as soon as something different comes along at a better price. If they are loyal customers then they come to you first.

If you excel at what you do for long enough, from a business perspective, then you often gain a positive reputation. There's additional psychological sense behind this as well like beliefs, shared purpose, vision and so on the can establish that relationship of a "good business" as viewed by the consumer. It could also be viewed that some consumers "get it" in regards to what makes one company different than another, because differentiating yourself from a competitor is important in any business facing competition.

 

[ponykid]

I'm completely against this. I want people to own my knives. I build them all by hand to custom specs at prices well below many production fixed blades and get them out in under a month. As long as I break even, I'm doing ok.

 

[Quiet]

Studying a business model is not negative. Propping up the value of your entire inventory over 5 to 10 products that your fan base wants and sells out in a matter of hrs to days is smart.

The "Just-In Time" Business model is the "Custom Shop." Excess inventory is no good, and a lot of knife companies are opening JIT Custom Knife Shops. If they can do it, so can Spyderco. All we are talking abt here is creating two blades instead of one, and two grip types, instead of one. THAT IS ALL THAT SPYDERCO IS DOING, but they are not filling all of the possible orders, they are creating scarcity, false demand, and a lot of unfulfilled potential customers.

My degree is a BS in the College of Business is from a Big 12 University, Management Information Systems and I have minors in Internetworking (Cisco Networking AAS), Architecture(AA), General(AS). I am also a Jr in EE Computer Engineering. I was dual listed / dual degree seeking but I packed it in and headed to Silicon Valley for work. School is OK, but I'd rather make money. I'm no genius and the degrees got me interviews.

A shame, all that education, and you still seem to believe that a (quite successful) business should conform to what you think it should be. Here's an idea, why not start your own business, grow it at the scale and to the success that Spyderco has, and then you can run it however you like? Sal will be guaranteed to respond to you then, probably by shaking your hand and welcoming you to the industry.

Just a thought.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Dang... so many cults, so little time.

 

[madcap_magician]

Studying a business model is not negative. Propping up the value of your entire inventory over 5 to 10 products that your fan base wants and sells out in a matter of hrs to days is smart.

The "Just-In Time" Business model is the "Custom Shop." Excess inventory is no good, and a lot of knife companies are opening JIT Custom Knife Shops. If they can do it, so can Spyderco. All we are talking abt here is creating two blades instead of one, and two grip types, instead of one. THAT IS ALL THAT SPYDERCO IS DOING, but they are not filling all of the possible orders, they are creating scarcity, false demand, and a lot of unfulfilled potential customers.

My degree is a BS in the College of Business is from a Big 12 University, Management Information Systems and I have minors in Internetworking (Cisco Networking AAS), Architecture(AA), General(AS). I am also a Jr in EE Computer Engineering. I was dual listed / dual degree seeking but I packed it in and headed to Silicon Valley for work. School is OK, but I'd rather make money. I'm no genius and the degrees got me interviews.

... ah, I see the issue. You have degrees in majors that are run through a business school, but are not themselves business programs, which explains your curious lack of understanding of the concept of price and the just-in time inventory system. I myself lack a business degree, but the economics and financial management fundamentals classes I took through the Labovitz School of Business and Economics did teach me a little bit about price equilibrium and its relationship to the supply and demand curves.

Value, as represented by price, is relative, not absolute. There is no such thing as 'false value' or 'false demand.' You are using those terms as a substitute for the sentence "Parts of reality that I think should be different."

Filling all possible orders is not the most profitable path. A manufacturer that is tooled to operate at 100% of consumer demand is extremely vulnerable to demand curve shifts, which go downward as well as upward. A manufacturer that requires skilled labor should, prudently, not produce at 100% of current demand, because a slowdown would require them to idle machinery and lay off skilled labor, which is hard to get. Retaining skilled machinists is more important to a good knife manufacturing concern than squeezing every possible last dollar out of consumers. Efficient manufacturers minimize the proportion of fixed-to-overall costs.

It is true that several knife companies have successful business models that incorporate custom shops, which offer limited ranges of their flagship models with an a la carte construction system. However, Spyderco's business model does not currently include that. They seem to be successful anyway. Not to get too buzzword-y, but the idea of leveraging your core competencies is a real thing. Businesses should do what they're good at in the way they have found works for them. Spyderco is doing so and is successful at it. Their success is a 100% rebuttal of all of your criticism of their business models.

 

[John_0917]

I don’t think it’s inaccurate to say that much of the reason why Emerson knives is not only still around but pretty successful is because of the “cult following”.

It sure as heck isn’t because of the quality!

Every limited/Signature series knife sells out quickly, there is virtually nothing different, same mediocre materials and shoddy build quality but nonetheless there is a devoted fan base that snaps up every single one he makes and at almost comical prices.

There is a even a “collectors association” that you have to buy a membership into to have access to some knives...good on EE for monetizing his “cult”!

 

[snapshot2017]

My Spyderco Mp2 was a Limited Edition with a S35VN steel blade and Earth Brown (Tan) G10 Scales i found it also online at $156 and ordered it, again it came with great quality of build and a really sharp blade.

Back in August of 2018 i was reading in the Spyderco forum about the Manix2 with S110V blade material and Blue/Purple (Blurple) G10 Scales, this kinfe uses a different locking system from my Mp2, also it's a larger knife then my Mp2 and i wanted to have one, this was not a sprint run just a new Spyderco offer unless i am mistaken correct me if i am wrong.
https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?t=80974
At $152 it was not IMHO over priced and the quality of build and sharpness of it's blade was as with all Spyderco knives super good.
I just found it offered online and ordered it.

My point here is you don't have to someone always waiting for a sprint run or get special treatment if anyone does get special treatment to find and be allowed to buy the knifes you want.
=======
Now there is another item many don't know about or understand how it is worked, for an example i know Amazon uses a very powerful computer to track all sales and what prices these items are selling at, if they have set a special sale price and many are quickly buying the computers software can adjust pricing up or down if sales fall off.
I have found an item at a good price using one of my four laptops put item in shopping cart, then an hour later used another laptop to price the same item and found it had been raised around $20 dollars went to my other laptop with same item still in shopping cart at price $20 less and ordered it.
So i had locked in my price on my laptop, before Amazon's computer had raised the price, just something i have found that vendors use to control prices.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

My Spyderco Mp2 was a Limited Edition with a S35VN steel blade and Earth Brown (Tan) G10 Scales i found it also online at $156 and ordered it, again it came with great quality of build and a really sharp blade.

Back in August of 2018 i was reading in the Spyderco forum about the Manix2 with S110V blade material and Blue/Purple (Blurple) G10 Scales, this kinfe uses a different locking system from my Mp2, also it's a larger knife then my Mp2 and i wanted to have one, this was not a sprint run just a new Spyderco offer unless i am mistaken correct me if i am wrong.
https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?t=80974
At $152 it was not IMHO over priced and the quality of build and sharpness of it's blade was as with all Spyderco knives super good.
I just found it offered online and ordered it.

My point here is you don't have to someone always waiting for a sprint run or get special treatment if anyone does get special treatment to find and be allowed to buy the knifes you want.
=======
Now there is another item many don't know about or understand how it is worked, for an example i know Amazon uses a very powerful computer to track all sales and what prices these items are selling at, if they have set a special sale price and many are quickly buying the computers software can adjust pricing up or down if sales fall off.
I have found an item at a good price using one of my four laptops put item in shopping cart, then an hour later used another laptop to price the same item and found it had been raised around $20 dollars went to my other laptop with same item still in shopping cart at price $20 less and ordered it.
So i had locked in my price on my laptop, before Amazon's computer had raised the price, just something i have found that vendors use to control prices.

That's what they refer to as "flex pricing". Camelcamelcamel.com is an online tracking utility you can use to view historical pricing on "big river" items and set up notifications when it dips below a certain level.

 

[madcap_magician]

I don’t think it’s inaccurate to say that much of the reason why Emerson knives is not only still around but pretty successful is because of the “cult following”.

It sure as heck isn’t because of the quality!

Every limited/Signature series knife sells out quickly, there is virtually nothing different, same mediocre materials and shoddy build quality but nonetheless there is a devoted fan base that snaps up every single one he makes and at almost comical prices.

There is a even a “collectors association” that you have to buy a membership into to have access to some knives...good on EE for monetizing his “cult”!

I think Strider is/was also a cult following company along the same vein. Busse and Spyderco also have cult followings. By and large this is a cultural thing that is completely harmless. As long as the Strider/Emerson cults stay on the green forum, and the Busse and Spyderco cults don't invade General Knife Discussion constantly, I think there's plenty of room for manufacturer cults...

 

[Charlie Mike]

The “product” in that case is status among an Instagram community, not a tool. One could argue that their prices are really expensive for knives, but pretty cheap for status.

Couldn't have said it better. For much of instagram, it's a dick measuring contest via thickness of wallet.

 

[James Y]

A huge difference between Spyderco and a company like Buck (or Benchmade, as examples) is that, as I seem to recall Sal himself saying, Spyderco is a very small company by comparison. It's easy to see all the knives Spyderco puts out, made here and from around the world, and how prominent they are in the knife world, and think that they are a huge manufacturer with unlimited resources, but AFAIK they are not. That Spyderco is enjoying the success it has, and that it continues to evolve and innovate at the pace that it has, is actually quite remarkable. Especially considering how competitive the knife industry is, and how comparatively tiny, percentage-wise, the base of knife buyers/aficionados is in the overall general population, it's pretty darned amazing.

Jim

 

[22-rimfire]

Same can be said for anything else in life. I'm a cult member of Toyota trucks, Knipex tools, Browning Rifles,Remington shotguns, Ruger handguns and yep, you guessed it...Spyderco knives!

Interesting. I have only purchased Toyota Trucks and cars since 1980. Cult? No idea, but I am a satisfied customer even though they cost a little more than a comparable US made vehicle. Ruger handguns, nope; but I own some. Spyderco? Nope. I spread myself around my small knife universe. I did lean toward a heavy collector status with Colt revolvers for a good while.

 

[John_0917]

I think Strider is/was also a cult following company along the same vein. Busse and Spyderco also have cult followings. By and large this is a cultural thing that is completely harmless. As long as the Strider/Emerson cults stay on the green forum, and the Busse and Spyderco cults don't invade General Knife Discussion constantly, I think there's plenty of room for manufacturer cults...

I agree, nothing wrong with the Busse, Spyderco or Emerson cults (even if the EKI crowd is a little weird), I think this forum got a lot better the day the Strider forum shut down.

 

[madcap_magician]

I agree, nothing wrong with the Busse, Spyderco or Emerson cults (even if the EKI crowd is a little weird), I think this forum got a lot better the day the Strider forum shut down.

I think a Venn diagram of the Strider cult and the Emerson cult would be one circle directly on top of another, though.

 

[snapshot2017]

We have a great knife designer who resides on this forum, don't think he has a cult following he designed the Schrade SCHF 55 a really nice fixed blade knife with a blade steel of 1095, it's Mfg. in Taiwan has really great build quality and sells for around $35US IMHO a great knife at a really good price.