Are the flippers / scalpers going to ruin the the fun?

irsh said:
Sorry, I wasn't talking about having someone copy a design. I thought the idea was to have something somewhat unique. Having a craftsman copy a production knife (even a special edition) would defeat the purpose.
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Unique is fine up until you need cash in your pocket.

Speaking primarily for the slipjoint crowd (though there's some of this that's true for the modern knife crowd also), the issue is that customs most often get sold at a loss, whereas most GEC collectors enjoy that a big element of their collection is its immediate and ongoing desirability. They know they can move their collection along (and quickly) if money gets tight, whereas you see guys taking a bath on customs all the time. In fact, have a look at the Slipjoint section of the Exchange, custom knives sit for awhile, while GEC knives get snapped up virtually immediately. Customs usually have to have the asking price adjusted a time or two before they move along. Similarly, modern knives, there are a few members who have customs they've been trying to sell for several months on the Exchange's Customs section.

That's one huge element of why people collect (and why other people scalp) GECs.
 
Trailer_Ape said:
In all seriousness, this is the reason there is a particular knife maker I no longer buy from. It really sucks because he/they make AMAZING products. Their business model had always been the same - advertise an upcoming offering, get us worked up, sell them all, then watch them appreciate on the secondary market. I knew the game and I was fine with it. UNTIL, he kept listing how few of a particular model were left (creating "urgency" as we were taught in sales). That didn't bother me. Not wanting to miss out, I purchased the (expensive) product in a color choice that was actually my 2nd choice but the among the only remaining options. I got mine. I was happy...... almost as happy as I would have been had I gotten the color I actually wanted. He announced "sold out" and I was relieved that I had managed to get mine before being at the mercy of the "flippers". All was well........ then, he announced he planned on doing another run and, once again, all color choices were available. That bothers me more than flippers grabbing sprint runs - someone implying that it IS a sprint run then deciding to do it again. I am not going to mention who that was but I have NEVER bought anything else from them since and will not (not even on the secondary market). If you're psychic and know who I am talking about, please understand - my refusal to purchase their products is SOLELY over that one move and NOT a reflection of their skill as a producer. The one and only product I have from them I will own until I die as it is among the nicest I have. They are very impressive at making cutlery, I just considered that foul move.
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If this maker didn't explicitly state "This variant/color/etc. will never be made again", I have to confess that I'm not really sure what upset you. That happens all the time in the knife world.
If this maker DID say that, then yes, that's scummy and it's good that you stand by your morals on it.
 
Blues said:
Make it less profitable for them by not patronizing them. When the profit motive goes away, so will they.

The manufacturers and vendors have little control...and many vendors throttle the number of knives that a customer can order, but as with anything else, there are many clever little ways that these miscreants knuckleheads can do an end run around the barriers the vendors attempt to impose.

I agree that chasing limited editions and exclusives can be wearing...so sometimes you just have to be willing to bite the bullet or pull up stakes and move on. Exclusives and sprints aren't the only game in town...and if you are not willing to pay inflated prices, (I'm not, personally), then don't feed the greed.
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Great post. Totally agree.

First time I ve seen "miscreant" used in quite a while. Very descriptive.
 
eisman said:
I have found that, due to the prices some of these "collectables" are commanding, that I've gone back to custom knives. The prices are comparable but I determine what I want vs. taking what I can get.
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As things go up in price, I get more particular and less forgiving. Having recently sold off a bunch of stuff, I had a little extra smoldering in the fun budget. I spent a lot of time looking. While it was fun to window shop in a higher tier, I kept finding things that were almost what I wanted or had a feature I didn't want. So I just went with a custom instead.
 
Flippers have been in the game since the first flint blade was chipped out in 100,000 BC

Frustrating but an integral part of collecting anything.
 
Quiet said:
If this maker didn't explicitly state "This variant/color/etc. will never be made again", I have to confess that I'm not really sure what upset you. That happens all the time in the knife world.
If this maker DID say that, then yes, that's scummy and it's good that you stand by your morals on it.
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Maybe I totally misread the situation but I definitely felt like it was implied. I have not kept up with them, maybe other offerings were "reran" but it sure didn't seem that way. They seemed to do a "one an done" on pretty much everything. Couple that with the continued sense of urgency, as the pile dwindled because it did not sound like "get in on this...... or you'll have to wait for the next batch".

That said, as far as "flippers" go - availability, desirability, specific preferences all play a part in the knife market. I would not fault anyone for being good at predicting future trends and basing current purchases on that. Heck, back before I had money, I remember seeing Draco's for $349. Imagine having 5 or 6 for trading stock in today's market. I got nothing against buyers who are quick on the draw. I would like to see mfg's limit quantity tho, 5 per customer or something. I know they can get others to buy for them but the added effort would level the field a little for the guy who only wanted 1.
 
BITEME said:
are the flippers going to ruin things for Spyderco, Benchmade, Kershaw ?
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Already have for Spyderco.

It's at least 1 reason why Spyderco had to limit the # of purchases under the OpFocus program, which allows eligible members to buy new releases at 50% below MSRP, to just 10 annually. The # was unlimited previously.

Exclusives are contracted for by dealers at a set price/quantity. The demand for exclusives depends on the model and materials and the popularity of the line but the demand for exclusives is beyond my understanding.

I do however buy Spyderco Sprints of models that I like. The demand for those is based on the particular model and the limited supply and if flippers get their hands on popular ones they can drive up the prices beyond reason.

Don't know about Benchmade (I only own a few) but I don't think there is any current Kershaw that can could be "flipped" for any meaningful profit. The $ in Kershaws lies in their "vintage" knives (1970's-2000's), which cost more now than when I bought mine w/in the past 3 years. Same applies to ZT.

I could sell my Tilt for a nice profit but I like pulling it out of my safe and looking at it from time to time. Just like my mother use to pull out her jewelry to gaze at, put on and then put back in the safe deposit box.

LOL! ;)
 
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I always grabbed a few extra if I can on sprints. I will flip/trade them for knives that I miss. It's like baseball cards, other collectables. I managed to get a bunch of rex 45 sprints, I have since exchanged them into other steels. Half the fun is selling and making some money to spend on another knife.
 
I'm not a fan of flippers but seeing the prices of AD20s on here lately, it's tempting to become one.
 
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I have in recent years gravitated towards knives that have demand that greatly exceeds supply. Some of it is that finally after fifteen years in this hobby I've graduated to high-end production knives, some of it is for the thrill of the chase, and some of it is simply that because if my tastes move on or I need cash quickly, I can resell fast with limited loss.

That same market does create room for flippers, but I'm willing to take the trade-off.
 
As soon as there is a financial incentive someone will be in it just for that. GEC's are just the latest in a long line.

Flippers will use shill accounts, proxy's, and all other manner of deception to acquire what you want. It's a job for them. Manufacturers can only do so much.

I met a guy in the pit at Blade Show back in 2016 who only came to the show to enter lottery's and buy available items off sought after makers tables only to immediately resell the knives on Instagram. He then walked over to the post office in the mall and shipped everything to the new owners.
He came with nothing and left with nothing but had made some money.

A year or two earlier at Blade a well known dealer showed up with about 20 extra people in tow to enter every lottery in the place including the Bose Lottery. They came away with a huge haul all of which were up on their site within hours.

It's the way of the world and it happens in most hobby's where collecting is a major theme. There is little to be done about it except not to support them.
 
Snacktime said:
I always grabbed a few extra if I can on sprints. I will flip/trade them for knives that I miss. It's like baseball cards, other collectables. I managed to get a bunch of rex 45 sprints, I have since exchanged them into other steels. Half the fun is selling and making some money to spend on another knife.
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Quoted.
 
I believe 100% in a free market; so for me, the answer is a simple no...

Manufacturers manufacture as they seem fit and appropriate for "their" business model.
...
Consumers (of all sorts) will consume at their own leisure, however they deem it fit to suit their own agenda and desire.
...
The market will ultimately decide who wins and who loses...

If I see something I like, I decide what I'm willing to spend based on how much I like it, and that's it. If I miss out on a release, I either search, wait, or move on. If all I can find are super marked up on the 2ndary market, I decide what it's worth to me, and that's that.
...
Supply and Demand 101;
low supply + high demand = higher price.
He who controls said supply can dictate price within said demand.
...
It's not a necessity like air or water, it's a "want"... Plenty of other knives of all styles, available across all price points, to suit any and all your cutting "needs", but you "want" that particular one because xyz... If you want it that bad, you'll either position yourself early to get it upon release, or spend extra to have it. Complaining that you can't have it, IMO, is the tell tale signs of simply being spoiled; losing teams that "want" trophy's they didnt earn, folks who can't play well but "want" to still be on the team, kids who "want" donuts and chocolate for breakfast...
Perfect example, I "wanted" a Wilson Combat RRXL; but didn't get one while they were readily available; A couple years later, I stumbled across a limited edition, (only 103 made I believe Fox, the company who produced them said, with a few given to company executives), Damasteel version of it, modified with a mammoth inlay, and no COA, but I wanted it bad enough I was willing to completely overpay for it... Will I ever see that money again if I attempt to resell it, now more carried and more lightly used? Nope, probably not, but that wasn't the point. As a consumer I wanted it bad enough to pay the price the seller was asking... No regrets.
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Supply and Demand. If you want it you want it, if you want it but can't afford it, you work harder and save more to get it, or you don't want it that bad. If you're complaining because you want it but just don't want to pay the asking price, then you don't want it bad enough and/or you're just spoiled and/or don't understand economics.
 
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Ruining it? That's for each to decide. Free market lover here. Personally, I don't think It ruins collecting/using/enjoying knives, just makes getting what you want more difficult at times. For Pete's sake, don't let anyone steal your joy! I'll share from a couple angles, just to participate in the discussion. First, I'm no collector, just a sportsman/ everyday knife user. When I first started buying nice knives, I didn't know what a sprint run or exclusive was. I would search a particular knife I was interested in and wonder why so many different steels and colors came up, but when I went to buy one, only one kind was available. Frustrating, but I caught on quick. Anyway, I developed a thing for the Spyderco military and I decided I must have one in cpm Cruwear. I paid way more than what it cost when released and way more than the s30v version sells for today, and I'm happy. That doesn't make me a part of any "problem". Second, It's a real effort to not get sour at Spyderco when I see folks waiting months to get their hands on a regularly catalogued item while sprint runs and exclusives just keep coming. Doesn't make sense to me.

Didn't mean to make it all about Spyderco, just sharing from the experience I have...
 
I would love to buy a used Demko for what it cost new. I would also love to buy more Bitcoin for what I paid in 2016. The market is the market, supply and demand rules the day. These aren’t necessities, they are toys and pocket jewelry for men.
 
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