Are the New Hinderer XM-18's worth the wait?

this won't be popular but here is my take. the previous generation xm-18 at $395 was a good buy for a custom user. the new mid tech xm-18 is an ok knife for the money but there are plenty of ok knives out there for $500. some of them are completely custom. the xm-18's with hand ground blades that rick sells at shows have been ratcheted up in price. the wait and the expectations that people were given with regard to the new xm-18's was just a marketing ploy, and a pretty dishonest one in my opinion. when the new mid tech blades were being ground for what seemed like forever why weren't people told they were not being ground by rick? he knew from the beginning they were being ground somewhere else but waited until the knives were ready to ship to dealers to mention it. so in effect what has happened is a price increase. you now get to pay the same price for a mid tech that you were expecting to pay for a custom. the custom price has gone up and it is the same knife as before. on another forum rick is offering a custom xm-18 for sale via lottery for $800. it has some filework and rick says that you are getting the filework for only $100 more than the regular price. actually you are paying $405 for the filework, thats $395 plus $405 for $800. that's what i call salesmanship.
 
martinr said:
i was on the waiting list but when i heard about the blades being ground somewhere else i decided i didn't really need the knife. what if you were on the wait list to buy a ferrari and when your name came up the ferrari dealer called and told you the engines are now being built in china but tuned at the factory? :jerkit:
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I don't think it is much different than having a cnc program do it.
 
martinr said:
this won't be popular but here is my take. the previous generation xm-18 at $395 was a good buy for a custom user. the new mid tech xm-18 is an ok knife for the money but there are plenty of ok knives out there for $500. some of them are completely custom. the xm-18's with hand ground blades that rick sells at shows have been ratcheted up in price. the wait and the expectations that people were given with regard to the new xm-18's was just a marketing ploy, and a pretty dishonest one in my opinion. when the new mid tech blades were being ground for what seemed like forever why weren't people told they were not being ground by rick? he knew from the beginning they were being ground somewhere else but waited until the knives were ready to ship to dealers to mention it. so in effect what has happened is a price increase. you now get to pay the same price for a mid tech that you were expecting to pay for a custom. the custom price has gone up and it is the same knife as before. on another forum rick is offering a custom xm-18 for sale via lottery for $800. it has some filework and rick says that you are getting the filework for only $100 more than the regular price. actually you are paying $405 for the filework, thats $395 plus $405 for $800. that's what i call salesmanship.
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I recently bought the Gen 3, which I love, and I think you've brought up some great points. I'm not sure anything was done with deception in mind, I think that would be more speculation on anyone's part to conclude on that at this point.

IMO, if the demand is there and it's taking all of Rick's time to keep up with it to point where people can't even get on the wait list, then I would expect him to increase his price and/or find other means to keep up with the demand. It's just the next logical step for a maker to do.

Now for those on the wait list, I'm not really sure how it worked if they gave any deposits, but I think it would only be fair to offer the deposts back (if any were given) if they choose not to buy the Gen 3.

I would've loved a Gen 2, but I bought mine for use and my primary concern is that it's as tough as the XM-18 has grown so famous for being. And quite honestly, Rick's stated purpose for going to the Gen 3 is aimed right at a person like me. I wouldn't have been able to wait 2 years to get a Gen 2 and I would've probably went with my 2nd most wanted custom folder had he not gone with this option.

I'll let the market sort out the rest of the stuff.
 
I think it is GREAT that Rick is doing the Generation III's this way, so more people CAN get one. That is why he IS doing it this way, to the best of my understanding. Keep in mind that he takes care of Military/LEO's/FD etc. FIRST as well. The XM-18 has been in such demand, that he is trying to DO something so those that want an XM-18. Rick;s knives are ALL excellent, and like STeven Garrson said:
Kohai999 said:
The quote speaks for itself.

Someday the market will correct itself...the same way that it did with Emerson(to some degree), Onion's, Mayo's...and maybe Walker's(I mean, Walker knives have sold for $50,000+, lotta'$$$)

Until then, anyone paying a very high premium will be purchasing what was intended as a USING knife at an irrationally bloated price.

As using knives at maker price, the III's are no better or worse than the earlier models.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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kaizen1, you are right. it is speculation on my part. just so nobody gets the wrong idea, i believe it's ricks right to sell the knife for whatever he feels like selling it for. supply and demand is what it's all about and he wouldn't be the first person to help create demand for a product he is selling. i don't consider that wrong or dishonest. being on the waiting list for 6 months and then finding out right before the knives were due to arrive at the dealer that the blades were being ground elsewhere did seem a little sneaky, if that's the right word. i cancelled my order. sometimes a persons feelings associated with a product are as important as the product itself. i am sure plenty of people are happy with the xm-18 and i've read comments that say rick is a great guy. i have no problem with that. i also don't have a problem with people trying to sell a used xm-18 for $1000 or more. when the dealer called me to say my xm-18 was in i just told him "you know, i really don't need another knife right now". and he emailed me right back and said "you just made mr -------'s day".
 
martinr said:
...when the new mid tech blades were being ground for what seemed like forever why weren't people told they were not being ground by rick? he knew from the beginning they were being ground somewhere else but waited until the knives were ready to ship to dealers to mention it.
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Rick did post the fact on another forum how the new blades were being produced several months prior to shipping. I have one of the new Gen IIIs and and love it. Tough, good looking, and functional...
 
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I just put mine on hold at my local dealer ...XM-18 Flipper with Digi-Camo G10 handle...its a brute!
 
Thanks again man, I scored a black non-flipper today thanks to you. I owe ya one. Wish it had the ACU scales though...I'll probably have to get one eventually. Any idea how they did it? Can't figure out how they'd layer it, and doesn't look like they have the same texture as the others...???
 
Where would one look to purchase an XM-18 - or at least get on a waiting list? Thanks, guys.

Jordan
 
Hammer said:
Thanks for the replies guys!

First let me point out that the ONLY thing different about the Gen 3 XM-18's is the outsourceing of the blade grind. That is the ONLY thing! Everything else is made by me the EXACT same way as the older XM-18's. So how can quality go down??
The XM-18 is and was designed as a hard use working knife. Due to the fact that the demand for these from our military and law enforcement customers was outstripping my ability to supply them I decided to have a shop grind the blades. I want to be able to supply our troops plain and simple. And do you think I'm the only maker who does this? I may be one of the only to actually SAY that I have my XM-18 blades ground outside.
People are using and loving the new XM-18 and more people will now be thrilled that they are actually able to even get one.

And my knives are 100% American made, by ME! Nothing made in China! :)

Rick Hinderer
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I actually like it better this way. I mean what is grinding. The final fit and finish is done by Rick and same steel is used. This way those cursed collectors may not drive the price up. I like this idea. Still don't have the money but like the Idea :p I mean having the grinding outsourced is like someone taking the tire off the rim because people like the way you install tires. I see no difference.
 
nativecajun57 said:
I actually like it better this way. I mean what is grinding. The final fit and finish is done by Rick and same steel is used. This way those cursed collectors may not drive the price up. I like this idea. Still don't have the money but like the Idea :p I mean having the grinding outsourced is like someone taking the tire off the rim because people like the way you install tires. I see no difference.
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I don't know if I would look at it that way. Grind actaully means a lot to collectors. If someone told me that I could get a Walter Brend knife, but it was ground by someone else then I wouldn't exactly call that a Walter Brend and there is no way that I would pay Walter Brend prices.

When someone buys a knife to use they may not care about who did the grind and how they did it. Now everyone likes to say that the XM-18 is a user knife and it's made to be used and blah, blah, blah... I know people use theirs, but I have yet to see one picture of a real user XM-18. I'm not talking about cutting tape, string, and cardboard. I mean a real user. If anyone wants to take shoot some pictures of their well used XM-18 I'd love to see them.

I agree that the Gen. 3 XM-18 should be used. It's a Mid-Tech and not a true custom. Why not use it? The blade appears to be machine ground just like a production knife. When you're talking about Generation I and Generation II XM-18's you're talking about a completely different animal which is a true handground custom and most likely a collector's piece.

So to say that grind means nothing is not true at all. Sometimes the grind is what makes the knife what it is. To me, when it comes to customs, it's an area where the personality and style of the maker can really shine. I also think that a beautiful grind can seperate a truly skilled maker from one that may not be as skilled. Rick's handground blades, especially the Spanto, is exactly what I'm talking about. Beautiful grinds.
 
Tony8179 said:
I don't know if I would look at it that way. Grind actaully means a lot to collectors. If someone told me that I could get a Walter Brend knife, but it was ground by someone else then I wouldn't exactly call that a Walter Brend and there is no way that I would pay Walter Brend prices.

When someone buys a knife to use they may not care about who did the grind and how they did it. Now everyone likes to say that the XM-18 is a user knife and it's made to be used and blah, blah, blah... I know people use theirs, but I have yet to see one picture of a real user XM-18. I'm not talking about cutting tape, string, and cardboard. I mean a real user. If anyone wants to take shoot some pictures of their well used XM-18 I'd love to see them.

I agree that the Gen. 3 XM-18 should be used. It's a Mid-Tech and not a true custom. Why not use it? The blade appears to be machine ground just like a production knife. When you're talking about Generation I and Generation II XM-18's you're talking about a completely different animal which is a true handground custom and most likely a collector's piece.

So to say that grind means nothing is not true at all. Sometimes the grind is what makes the knife what it is. To me, when it comes to customs, it's an area where the personality and style of the maker can really shine. I also think that a beautiful grind can seperate a truly skilled maker from one that may not be as skilled. Rick's handground blades, especially the Spanto, is exactly what I'm talking about. Beautiful grinds.
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I agree that a custom grind does seem to matter to a lot of folks, myself included. It's always nice to know that the maker ground the blade. But the term "mid-tech" is a bit misleading for the XM-18s IMO because Rick makes everything on the knife. The only thing he doesn't do as far as I know is the primary grind on the blades. He makes the handles/frame/lock, pivots, screws, heat treats the blades, etc. That's still much more than many makers who claim their knives to be "customs."
 
About 5 years ago I asked Rick if there was anyway to get one of his 3.5" flippers, black blade/black g10 before my upcoming deployment. He must have broke some laws getting that knife to me before I got out the door! But that is not the real story here. Once I made it out to my area and my co-workers were able to check out this XM-18, 3 of these dudes had to have one. So I told them to contact Rick and he would hook them up. And he did. Rick sent each one of those men their knives in a huge care package box filled with all sorts of items that men in sandy/hot climates can use. That is a gesture that speaks volumes about where Rick's heart is at. If Rick says he needs to get this amazing knife into more hands, and he can do it by having someone else grind some steel, then there is no other reason. If you need to speak to the man than speak to him, but don't put your assumptions on him. His heart has always been with the Deployed, and I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise.

Rick, your knife is still going strong. Thank you.
 
Rick makes a truly tough knife that is meant for use under the harshest conditions.Rick takes care of our LEO's, Military, FF's, etc. Rick knows his stuff. Yes, any Generation of XM-18 IS very much worth the wait!! The quality of ALL of Rick's knives are of the highest quality.
 
No high end collection can be complete without one. I use the heck out of mine(as well as all of my others)
 
Kaizen1 said:
I agree that a custom grind does seem to matter to a lot of folks, myself included. It's always nice to know that the maker ground the blade. But the term "mid-tech" is a bit misleading for the XM-18s IMO because Rick makes everything on the knife. The only thing he doesn't do as far as I know is the primary grind on the blades. He makes the handles/frame/lock, pivots, screws, heat treats the blades, etc. That's still much more than many makers who claim their knives to be "customs."
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It's still a Mid-Tech. As soon as anything is outsourced, anything, it's considered Mid-Tech. Once again I'll state that blade grind is an important part of the process. I'm not saying that the Gen. 3 grind is bad. It's not. And I'm not saying anything bad about Rick or his process. I'm just stating that the Gen. 3 is not handground by Rick and therefore it isn't a true custom. Whether or not it's Gen. 1, 2, or 3 the XM-18 is hands down one of the finest working folders out there. I'm proud to own one and eventually I'll own another, and probably another after that.
 
BOBO said:
About 5 years ago I asked Rick if there was anyway to get one of his 3.5" flippers, black blade/black g10 before my upcoming deployment. He must have broke some laws getting that knife to me before I got out the door! But that is not the real story here. Once I made it out to my area and my co-workers were able to check out this XM-18, 3 of these dudes had to have one. So I told them to contact Rick and he would hook them up. And he did. Rick sent each one of those men their knives in a huge care package box filled with all sorts of items that men in sandy/hot climates can use. That is a gesture that speaks volumes about where Rick's heart is at. If Rick says he needs to get this amazing knife into more hands, and he can do it by having someone else grind some steel, then there is no other reason. If you need to speak to the man than speak to him, but don't put your assumptions on him. His heart has always been with the Deployed, and I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise.

Rick, your knife is still going strong. Thank you.
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Extreemly well said. I appreciate your sharing this with us.

Daniel

I still wished I could afford one ground by whoever but made by Rick. I suppose I will have to check the prices because when I saw that one run over by the truck it was not the running over by the truck that impressed me but the inner spanner bolts or what ever you call them. I mean you could probably run over that knife with a tank.
 
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