Are the "teething problems" of S30V and S35VN gone?

marc_s said:
Shirogorov Hati in S30V
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I had to look that up being the perpetual nube that I am . . .
wow, very cool fasteners . . . stopped slots. Simple but brilliant. (no I'm not kidding).

Nothing to add about the S3_V the only knives I have are a very low use Cold Steel Lucky and a safe queen Para 2.
From reading about those steel alloys they seem like THEEE go to steel for a pocket knife. Steel engineered for knife use by top knife people; what's not to like ?
Coming into this whole cool guy knife thing late I just got caught up in the other more recent alloys and haven't come full circle yet.
 
I believe that in general, marketing and hyperbole have contributed to a consumer environment where anything less than an abstract opinion of absolute perfection from any number of outspoken authorities sets an impossible standard.

In my opinion, for many but not all, steels from different manufacturers is that the laser sharp edge you get from the factory is meant to impress you out of the box on its first few cuts/uses. For most steels you simply cannot expect this factory edge to persist indefinitely. I personally do not need to whittle hair from a gnat's ass or slice silently through wet tissue paper in my everday life so the convexed secondary bevel I get from my Sharpmaker and Spyderco Bench stones is the right geometry for me. The use of guided sharpeners for facilitating the recreation of these unrealistically sharp and perfectly flat bevels and polished edges that make mirrors jealous has only made the problem worse.

I could go on and on but suffice to say that we as consumers should continuously seek to prove our own opinions wrong until we can no longer do so and then we can begin to profess, publicly, our refined opinions.

Don't expect that out of box edge to suit either your steel or your use. The edge from the factory is almost always a marketing decision and not an engineering one. That's why so many people complain about the sharpness of Chris Reeve Knives. Their factory edges are the result of the dominance of the engineers in that company.

There's a reason why razor blades, Exacto blades and scalpels are disposable.
 
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The Mastiff said:
I've never encountered a quality made knife that was that snafu'ed up and if I ever do I'll return it under warranty.
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I sure wish I still had that one S110V. I would GIVE it to you to try out. Unfortunately I don't have it. I did just as you said and returned it. I have two other knives in the same alloy from the same maker and no probs with edges. The first one after some unremarkable use literally turning grainy rough in one day whether toothy or polished even after more than six or seven full sharpenings on the Edge Pro. I haven't changed my MO I still work through several grits ( for polished five grits or so). I have leaned more toward diamonds (OK gone total diamond for S110V) but I tried that more than once after getting well past the steel on the edge from the factory of that first knife.

I can at least understand the fear and confusion. In my case I feel I have a pretty good handle on sharpening. I mean ZDP-189 NEVER a problem unless I start cutting wire ties then I get an honest chip not a break down (micro crumbling) of the entire length of the edge.
 
Gaston444:

I’m new to posting on these forums, and I am slightly discombobulated by what you have written.

You seem to be expressing very strange views about edge angles, and even stranger views about crucible powdered steels. I have been using and sharpening knives for decades, for a variety of tasks, including a lot of fine cooking tasks. The edge angles you suggest are applicable only to straight razors or modelling knives. I can slice things in the kitchen paper thin with 20 dps. Could you explain what you mean, and why you believe that such ludicrous angles are necessary? Thank you.

Tom
 
The Mastiff said:
Here was a thread about the knife article using test mules made by Bob Dozier:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...catra-results-for-six-crucible-steels.769910/

"These were hollow-ground 0.125" test blades heat treated by Bob Dozier to Rc 60-61. There's a five page article about sharpening and cardboard cutting after the CATRA test, but here are the objectively measured results. The test is cutting against stacks of 5% silica cards with a 50 newton force applied throughout a 40mm cutting stroke at 50mm/sec. Here is the CATRA page with a video example at the bottom http://www.catra.org/pages/products/kniveslevel1/slt.htm

Steel - Total cards cut
10V - 1044
S60V - 1030
S90V - 1014
3V - 682
S30V - 541
154CM - 468 "

Note it was way off in the year published. 440C wasn't even represented but 440V/S60V was. No Infi or D2 either. In fact it has no real similarities to Gaston's description of this or the other explanations about the "test". His results and steels represented in the test have changed several times over the years with each retelling. I recommend reading some of the old threads to see just how much the story differs. The only similarities are how 440C dominated or "crushed" everything else in all tests according to him. He even has stated 2 or 3 different knife magazines. He will say this isn't the test of course but he has had 3 years to disprove that and come up with the one he has referenced so many times in so many different threads.

One of many examples of his version of the test again played out in a similar way:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/why-440c-lost-popularity-in-spyderco-knives.1307425/page-3

Another beginning on post #38 of this thread:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/154-cm-and-cpm154.1423070/page-2
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Thank you.
I was kind of going along there for a while but once I read 440C compared to 3V I jumped off the wagon. I like both steels but . . . please. Guess I'm a sucker for the under dog saying "try it your self".
I have gotten some good info from people bashed here that I can "recreate the experiment" in my "lab" and get, or have gotten, the same results so there may be some over reaction against some others bashed here.

Good to listen to all THEN TEST FOR YOUR SELF.
PS: 440C superior to 3V . . . that's a big jump there . . . I'm thinking I'm going to need a serious run up and some rocket fuel.
 
Wowbagger said:
Thank you.
I was kind of going along there for a while but once I read 440C compared to 3V I jumped off the wagon. I like both steels but . . . please. Guess I'm a sucker for the under dog saying "try it your self".
I have gotten some good info from people bashed here that I can "recreate the experiment" in my "lab" and get, or have gotten, the same results so there may be some over reaction against some others bashed here.

Good to listen to all THEN TEST FOR YOUR SELF.
PS: 440C superior to 3V . . . that's a big jump there . . . I'm thinking I'm going to need a serious run up and some rocket fuel.
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Funnily enough, I’ve never felt the need to test knives other than to try them out in the sorts of tasks I would need them to perform outdoors. A folding saw, or the saw on a SAK, is a useful thing, incidentally. Batoning dirty great seasoned hard wood logs is totally unnecessary, fantasy land stuff. as is banging through copper pipes or concrete breeze blocks. Sure, use a knife to split small bits of wood, or slivers from larger bits of wood, tapping the knife with a branch - I can picture that. It rains a lot here, I get it.

But really, what on earth is somebody thinking, who puts an unfeasibly impractical edge on S30v and then proceeds to hack away at frozen hard wood?
 
Pilsner said:
Funnily enough, I’ve never felt the need to test knives other than to try them out in the sorts of tasks I would need them to perform outdoors. A folding saw, or the saw on a SAK, is a useful thing, incidentally. Batoning dirty great seasoned hard wood logs is totally unnecessary, fantasy land stuff. as is banging through copper pipes or concrete breeze blocks. Sure, use a knife to split small bits of wood, or slivers from larger bits of wood, tapping the knife with a branch - I can picture that. It rains a lot here, I get it.

But really, what on earth is somebody thinking, who puts an unfeasibly impractical edge on S30v and then proceeds to hack away at frozen hard wood?
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Maybe they just like to sharpen a lot.
It is fun. Well . . . maybe not fun. As such.
Interesting though.
 
Wowbagger said:
Maybe they just like to sharpen a lot.
It is fun. Well . . . maybe not fun. As such.
Interesting though.
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Oh, for sure. I like sharpening, too. And it can be very interesting to take things to ludicrous angles, but what you and I don’t do, I think, is extrapolate bizarre conclusions about the utility of the steel if we have deliberately set up a fragile structure and then knackered the edge.
 
Wowbagger said:
I had never thought to put that on a stone for lube. Only for when traveling rough or is it some well guarded secret from antiquity ? :D
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I don't get the joke :( I think you quoted a typo from me? Does the word someg mean something I am not aware of?
 
I think anything less then instant cauterization of the cleavage of any material to include starship armor will be found inferior by too many "professors of the cut".
 
Pilsner said:
Red Dwarf: Smeggin’ ‘eck! Smeg!

An intergalactic euphemism for faeces/intercourse/etc.
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Nope. Fails to account for wowbaggers 'traveling rough' (think 'rough ride'), or positing a sharpening secret from antiquity. From an early phallic worshiping paganistic cult perhaps.
 
Cursum Perficio said:
Nope. Fails to account for wowbaggers 'traveling rough' (think 'rough ride'), or positing a sharpening secret from antiquity. From an early phallic worshiping paganistic cult perhaps.
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I assumed we might be talking about smegma here. Because we all know that is by far the best thing to lube your stone with, hands down! (your pants)
 
Pilsner said:
Gaston444:

I’m new to posting on these forums, and I am slightly discombobulated by what you have written.

You seem to be expressing very strange views about edge angles, and even stranger views about crucible powdered steels. I have been using and sharpening knives for decades, for a variety of tasks, including a lot of fine cooking tasks. The edge angles you suggest are applicable only to straight razors or modelling knives. I can slice things in the kitchen paper thin with 20 dps. Could you explain what you mean, and why you believe that such ludicrous angles are necessary? Thank you.

Tom
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Just ignore him. His explanation will be nothing more than bogus theories and harangue. @Gaston444 is a troll.
 
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