Are there any "super steels" that will hold an edge twice as long as regular steel?

[RX-79G]

Well, yours haven't been about steel too, just about semantics. I find that when a person tends to argue about semantics, he enjoys argument.

Do you realize that there's a number of people on this thread that are having a pleasant and interesting conversation with me? Your problem seems localized.

 

[singularity35]

Do you realize that there's a number of people on this thread that are having a pleasant and interesting conversation with me? Your problem seems localized.

There's a lot more who have more restraint than me.

You always do seem to want to have the last word. Here's your chance.

 

[RX-79G]

There's a lot more who have more restraint than me.

You always do seem to want to have the last word. Here's your chance.

You also accused me of not posting anything about steel in 26 posts on a thread I started. How likely do you think that is?

Stop trolling me, please.

 

[singularity35]

Nevermind...

 

[RevDevil]

Do you realize that there's a number of people on this thread that are having a pleasant and interesting conversation with me? Your problem seems localized.

I am going to recommend you stop, pump the brakes, and quit while you are ahead. Maybe proof read before submitting topics so you do not open yourself up to others being critical. Also, learn to handle the critical nature of what is discussion. If you can't handle it, maybe stick to other things. Not everyone will like or agree with what you declare. This nonsense has to stop, if we have to keep baby sitting these threads we can easily just stop the discussion and drama in its tracks. You keep on arguing with people over silliness, and nothing more. Enough is enough already.

 

[Ankerson]

With S60V, which I belive was made for the plastics indutstry was CPM's first stainless offering similar to 440C. Later with their updated offering of S90V offered more hardness (help me out here ankerson), which was probably more of what knife makers were looking from a high wear stainless. Although I've seen some incredible fillet knives from S60V. There's no bad or good, just different composition.

440V/CPM S60V came out in 1995

420V/ CPM S90V came out in 1999

CPM S30V came out in 2001


S60V was used for awhile, but it had chipping issues when taken over 58 HRC, don't remember what the real issues might have been, maybe the HT protocol wasn't advanced enough for thin knife blades or maybe the formula needed to be tweaked.

S90V was developed to offer more wear resistance with the higher V content over S60V.

I do know however that Crucible is offering CPM S60V again so we will have to wait and see what the deal is now.

 

[Rhinoknives1]

Yes, it's what ever is in vogue and slick willie Marketers maximize this to their advantage. When marketing their product. It is a vague term and morphing into something ahead and different all the time. Some chase it, some don't. Like you I don't care to sharpen some of the vanadium steels. Especially when something like CPM-154 holds a two day working/ cutting edge. By then my job is done, I'm wore out and don't care to pick up another knife and keep cutting sisal rope. Am I pass'e?? I acknowledge those exist and I've found what I enjoy working with. And know it is of high level. Mr. Phil Wilson (a knife making legend) enjoys pushing the edge of the envelope farther than this.
I'm good with that. We need those too. DM

I never said I won't sharpen or don't like the Vanadium steels S110V which I have made a few knives of. The Cost of the V steels and the hours and belts it takes to make a knife make the end product pricey! The steel laughed at even Ceramic belts. It gave up the steel when grinding but it was an effort!


As far as what steels I am interested in? They are mostly Martensitic Stainless Steels. http://www.brownmac.com/blog/what-is-stainless-steel

 

[B34NS]

440V/CPM S60V came out in 1995

420V/ CPM S90V came out in 1999

CPM S30V came out in 2001


S60V was used for awhile, but it had chipping issues when taken over 58 HRC, don't remember what the real issues might have been, maybe the HT protocol wasn't advanced enough for thin knife blades or maybe the formula needed to be tweaked.

S90V was developed to offer more wear resistance with the higher V content over S60V.

I do know however that Crucible is offering CPM S60V again so we will have to wait and see what the deal is now.

That pretty much what I heard, I figure the high temps needed for heat treating S60V was about the same as S90V without the overall hardness yield. Plus I'm sure back then finding quality furnaces that could sustain at those temps was probably a little harder to come by for the lone knifemaker back then making it less attractive to use than S30V or S110V down the road.

curious that they're offering again

 

[ev13wt]

I would go with less. Take all the buildings, bridges, vehicles, tools etc and weight then against knives, and I would guess that less than 1% of steel makes it into knives.

in 2010, based on market share (cutlery, shears, axe, woodworking, scissors, etc), manufacturers of knives, including butcher, hunting, and pocket, and makers of knife blades and blanks were the second largest category, accounting for a total of $88.6 million in sales. So, compared to shipbuilding alone, which is around 100 billion anually on average...

We are around 0.0003% of steel product producing annual global revenue based market share. This is a very rough estimate based on an hour of google-fu.

.

 

[timberweasel]

(...) Given the large influence geometry has on cutting performance and edge retention, how does it make any sense to recommend people purchase production knives in steels it may not even be practical for them to re-profile into high-performance geometries? (...)

What is your typical buyer supposed to do with a high wear-resistant steel and the typical sharpening equipment they have access to? And if they're going to leave the geometry stock because they don't have the patience or equipment to thin it out, then all the money they've spent on a high wear-resistant steel has been utterly squandered because a lower-wear steel at a thinner geometry will have better cutting ability and edge-retention based on that geometry.

Again, this is without even contesting the idea that high carbide volume steels will outperform "lesser steels" at identical geometries, just looking at the practical implications of high wear resistant steels in production knives.

:thumbup:

I think that many 'typical buyers' are not necessarily buying knives that are appropriate for their intended use. Many of us will attempt to shoehorn a particular knife into a role it was never designed for, just because we like the knife in general. A ‘hard-use-overbuilt-tactical’ folder does not necessarily make for a good office knife, but as we all know, de gustibus non est disputandum. If I want to reprofile the fat convex edge on a pocket tank to make it a better paper-slicer, I may lose the blade’s ability to withstand deformation due to slight lateral loads (such as may be experienced when working a blade through knotty wood.) Even if I choose to reprofile an edge to make it better, it still might not be optimum. A finer grained steel with a mirror edge might yield even better results. Maybe I would benefit from a toothier micro-serration of a coarse carbide steel. Everything is a compromise when it comes to steel, and that’s why the age old question of “what steel is best?” is most truthfully answered with “well, it depends…”

All cutlery steel will dull with use. Even if I get by with diligent edge-maintenance and stropping for a good long while, I will eventually be faced with the challenge of sharpening. Investing in effective sharpening equipment is a must, imo, and is something that is often overlooked, especially by new knife afi’s. But tools are dumb… effectiveness will always be in the hands of the user. Paying attention to blade geometry and the inherent properties of steel will make the process of using/maintaining a knife more rewarding, and understanding how all these aspects work together can make a knife spectacular. Knowledge is power.

Honestly, the more I learn, the more I realise how little I know.

-Brett