Are there any "super steels" that will hold an edge twice as long as regular steel?

Ankerson said:
A lot of people don't know that MOST of the current steels used in the knife industry are used in other areas of the steel industry and have been adapted for use in knife blades.

The knife industry is like 10% or less of the total steel industry, it's a big wide world out there.
Click to expand...
I would go with less. Take all the buildings, bridges, vehicles, tools etc and weight then against knives, and I would guess that less than 1% of steel makes it into knives.
 
Here's one very narrow ancedote, over a span of ~15+ years.
I have 2 knives with identical blade styles, the only difference being one is almost an inch longer. The knives are benchmades' 800 and 812. The 800 has an ats-34 blade, the 812 an m2 blade. The m2 blade keeps its edge much, much, much longer than the ats-34 blade, with any type of cutting. I've owned both knives since the late 90's.
 
ursamajor said:
I would go with less. Take all the buildings, bridges, vehicles, tools etc and weight then against knives, and I would guess that less than 1% of steel makes it into knives.
Click to expand...

I was being nice. :D

I heard that 1% figure myself on the phone more than once myself.
 
singularity35 said:
But then you also said that "super steels" is a stupid name because it doesn't mean anything.



Now you're saying that everybody should know what it means?



I think you just like to argue about little things like sematics so much that you wind up contradicting yourself. You pose something in a forum and your putting yourself out there. So people can come in and ask what you meant and you can't let it go for whatever reason...
Click to expand...
I think everyone on this board realizes that "super steel" isn't well defined and changes over time. I was agreeing with Ankerson that the phrase is indeed hard to nail down because it doesn't have even a loose definition.

However, most anyone can tell you what it isn't. And most everyone can agree on 9 out of 10 steels that fall into the category.


So when regular posters like yourself start asking questions like you've never had a conversation like this before - and also throw in your brand of psycho-analysis - I get fairly impatient with that. Especially when your questions don't give examples or pose any sort of logical context.


Your posts haven't been about steel at all. They've been about me. Who likes to argue?
 
Ankerson said:
I was being nice. :D

I heard that 1% figure myself on the phone more than once myself.
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised if it was 1% of 1%.


At the height of the titanium bicycle boom, I remember reading that all the titanium bicycles in the world added up to less Ti than the hydraulic system of one 747. I would bet there is less steel in all the knives in the world than just all the roofing nails.
 
RX-79G said:
I think everyone on this board realizes that "super steel" isn't well defined and changes over time. I was agreeing with Ankerson that the phrase is indeed hard to nail down because it doesn't have even a loose definition.
Click to expand...


The whole thing is quite blurry really when you really think about it, it is a marketing term and it is vague at best.

So take someone who is new to knives and or just starting to learn could get confused in a real hurry and then start adding in all of the bad information that is really out there on top of that and a person could get lost.

The biggest problem that I have with the whole thing is the misinformation that's out there and that is what actually got me started testing knives over 35 years ago. I know BS when I hear it and there was a lot of it around even then, much more these days however.

In the end people choose to believe what they want to believe, that will never change.
 
RX-79G said:
I'd be surprised if it was 1% of 1%.


At the height of the titanium bicycle boom, I remember reading that all the titanium bicycles in the world added up to less Ti than the hydraulic system of one 747. I would bet there is less steel in all the knives in the world than just all the roofing nails.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. :)
 
Ankerson said:
The whole thing is quite blurry really when you really think about it, it is a marketing term and it is vague at best.

So take someone who is new to knives and or just starting to learn could get confused in a real hurry and then start adding in all of the bad information that is really out there on top of that and a person could get lost.

The biggest problem that I have with the whole thing is the misinformation that's out there and that is what actually got me started testing knives over 35 years ago. I know BS when I hear it and there was a lot of it around even then, much more these days however.

In the end people choose to believe what they want to believe, that will never change.
Click to expand...
And that's exactly why I referred to the moniker "Super steel" as stupid. They aren't super, they are just better than the older stuff. And if they are supposed to be, and aren't, they get dumped. S60V - gone.

It is a phrase like "SUV" - even though it means anything from tall car to serious off road machine, people seem to get generally what you're talking about if you use the word.

Really, the only thing worth arguing about with the definition are the steels that may or may not fit. CPM D2, S7, M4, H1. But a new low alloy steel like 80 CrV2 shows up, and no one seems confused about which category it belongs in. Just like no one is confused about S90V.
 
singularity35 said:
But then you also said that "super steels" is a stupid name because it doesn't mean anything.

Now you're saying that everybody should know what it means?

I think you just like to argue about little things like semantics so much that you wind up contradicting yourself. You pose something in a forum and your putting yourself out there. So people can come in and ask what you meant and you can't let it go for whatever reason...
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

RX-79G said:
Who likes to argue?
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:
 
RX-79G said:
And that's exactly why I referred to the moniker "Super steel" as stupid. They aren't super, they are just better than the older stuff. And if they are supposed to be, and aren't, they get dumped. S60V - gone.

It is a phrase like "SUV" - even though it means anything from tall car to serious off road machine, people seem to get generally what you're talking about if you use the word.

Really, the only thing worth arguing about with the definition are the steels that may or may not fit. CPM D2, S7, M4, H1. But a new low alloy steel like 80 CrV2 shows up, and no one seems confused about which category it belongs in. Just like no one is confused about S90V.
Click to expand...

There aren't really any bad steels really, they all have their uses that they have been developed for and in the knife industry they fit into categories of different types of knives in how they are basically used.

As we all know there are many types of knives out there and in all kinds of different price ranges to suit the needs or wants of the many different types of people.

Kitchen knives are the most sold knife category in the world by far as most people tend to have one or more in the kitchen.

The problem is that most of them are garbage really, they are cheap, easy to get just about anyplace and functional as in they can cut stuff just like a veggie can lid can if you really wanted to do it so functional doesn't really mean much.

Beyond that well.. I won't get into it. :D
 
Ankerson said:
There aren't really any bad steels really, they all have their uses that they have been developed for and in the knife industry they fit into categories of different types of knives in how they are basically used.

As we all know there are many types of knives out there and in all kinds of different price ranges to suit the needs or wants of the many different types of people.

Kitchen knives are the most sold knife category in the world by far as most people tend to have one or more in the kitchen.

The problem is that most of them are garbage really, they are cheap, easy to get just about anyplace and functional as in they can cut stuff just like a veggie can lid can if you really wanted to do it so functional doesn't really mean much.

Beyond that well.. I won't get into it. :D
Click to expand...

I would say that a "bad" steel is an expensive one that doesn't work as it is supposed to or is too hard to work with to be a viable choice. Money is always the great arbiter, and inexpensive steels usually get re-purposed, while the expensive stuff gets discontinued because it costs too much to be a niche only material.
 
RX-79G said:
I would say that a "bad" steel is an expensive one that doesn't work as it is supposed to or is too hard to work with to be a viable choice. Money is always the great arbiter, and inexpensive steels usually get re-purposed, while the expensive stuff gets discontinued because it costs too much to be a niche only material.
Click to expand...

Not always..

Depends on what the steel is used for and in the steel industry outside of the knife industry there are some very expensive steels that have been around for a long time and continue to get used.

In the knife industry, well that's different and yes the end customers cost is a large factor and that is very apparent in what sells the most so we typically see what we see and most of that isn't very good.

We here on BF for example are a very small group when you really look at it and then start breaking that down into even smaller groups of likes and we start to understand how much of a niche market it really can be.

That's taking into consideration that there are over 7 Billion people in the world.
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
Super Steel is nothing more than Marketing hype!
Click to expand...

Yes, it's what ever is in vogue and slick willie Marketers maximize this to their advantage. When marketing their product. It is a vague term and morphing into something ahead and different all the time. Some chase it, some don't. Like you I don't care to sharpen some of the vanadium steels. Especially when something like CPM-154 holds a two day working/ cutting edge. By then my job is done, I'm wore out and don't care to pick up another knife and keep cutting sisal rope. Am I pass'e?? I acknowledge those exist and I've found what I enjoy working with. And know it is of high level. Mr. Phil Wilson (a knife making legend) enjoys pushing the edge of the envelope farther than this.
I'm good with that. We need those too. DM
 
RX-79G said:
And that's exactly why I referred to the moniker "Super steel" as stupid. They aren't super, they are just better than the older stuff. And if they are supposed to be, and aren't, they get dumped. S60V - gone.

It is a phrase like "SUV" - even though it means anything from tall car to serious off road machine, people seem to get generally what you're talking about if you use the word.

Really, the only thing worth arguing about with the definition are the steels that may or may not fit. CPM D2, S7, M4, H1. But a new low alloy steel like 80 CrV2 shows up, and no one seems confused about which category it belongs in. Just like no one is confused about S90V.
Click to expand...

With S60V, which I belive was made for the plastics indutstry was CPM's first stainless offering similar to 440C. Later with their updated offering of S90V offered more hardness (help me out here ankerson), which was probably more of what knife makers were looking from a high wear stainless. Although I've seen some incredible fillet knives from S60V. There's no bad or good, just different composition.
 
RX-79G said:
snip..

Your posts haven't been about steel at all. They've been about me. Who likes to argue?
Click to expand...

Well, yours haven't been about steel too, just about semantics. I find that when a person tends to argue about semantics, he enjoys argument. :rolleyes:
 
I carry primarily for defensive purposes first and utilitarian secondly. I don't worry if I only have AUS-8 for a day, I'm not stranded on an island for 90 days without a sharpening stone.

AUS-8 is a super steel because I can I buy a RAT-1 for $24, that's why it's super :)

Am I weird because I look forward to sharpening my knives? I find that it centers me whenever I've had a stressful day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top