Are there any "super steels" that will hold an edge twice as long as regular steel?

[singularity35]

"Super steel" is a stupid name, and doesn't mean anything about the use of the metal or the kind of alloy it is. All the name really tells us is that the stuff is hard to make, hard to work and going to make the knife expensive. And we hope/assume/pray that all the extra expense yields measurably greater performance than the stuff that costs a third as much. And when they are good, we keep using them. There are plenty of "super steels" that are now "discontinued steels" because they weren't worth it.

No name really is stupid as long as everybody knows what it means...

When common usage allows everybody but one to understand, it's not the multitude who is stupid.

 

[fnzeee]

A steel that is never mentioned is Fallkniven' s 3G. Stuff is phenomenal. Seems like it stays sharp for months with only a quick strop every week or so. Also never mentioned are Fallkniven' s folders in general. They are just classy looking functional knives and most come in 3G. Also the laminated cobalt steel is pretty DAMN impressive too, and I just love the GP model that it's used in. The kolt is a great small fixed blade using the lam co steel. I have the juni in 3G and its in my pocket or around my neck every day. Both of these steels definitely qualify as super IMHO.

^ Have to agree with this..my U2 is amazing at holding an edge. Have not done any scientifically verifiable studies, but it is noticeably adept at holding an edge and over the past few years of regular use has required less frequent sharpening than softer carbon steel knives and even my Boker N690BO and ZT/Kershaw ELMAX blades. Okay, there are a lot of variables...blade geometry, heat treatment, etc. While I cannot state decisively the cause for the differences in performance, I can attest to the performance itself.

Also agree that the whole "super steel porn" obsession has gotten pretty carried away on these boards. I do not believe there is one best material for knife blades, all have their strengths and weaknesses...same for the processes used to produce the blade and production precision and quality control.

Regarding the OP: if your objective is to find a knife which holds an edge longer, I would suggest expanding your question to more factors than just the blade steel. I do believe some steels will hold an edge longer than others, but so many other variables are at play which can also impact edge holding ability...asking just about the steel is like picking a restaurant based only on the brand of pasta they serve, with no regard to how it is prepared.

 

[RX-79G]

^ Have to agree with this..my U2 is amazing at holding an edge. Have not done any scientifically verifiable studies, but it is noticeably adept at holding an edge and over the past few years of regular use has required less frequent sharpening than softer carbon steel knives and even my Boker N690BO and ZT/Kershaw ELMAX blades. Okay, there are a lot of variables...blade geometry, heat treatment, etc. While I cannot state decisively the cause for the differences in performance, I can attest to the performance itself.

Also agree that the whole "super steel porn" obsession has gotten pretty carried away on these boards. I do not believe there is one best material for knife blades, all have their strengths and weaknesses...same for the processes used to produce the blade and production precision and quality control.

Regarding the OP: if your objective is to find a knife which holds an edge longer, I would suggest expanding your question to more factors than just the blade steel. I do believe some steels will hold an edge longer than others, but so many other variables are at play which can also impact edge holding ability...asking just about the steel is like picking a restaurant based only on the brand of pasta they serve, with no regard to how it is prepared.

I'm not looking for knife. I'm looking at steel.

 

[Ankerson]

What is your typical buyer supposed to do with a high wear-resistant steel and the typical sharpening equipment they have access to? And if they're going to leave the geometry stock because they don't have the patience or equipment to thin it out, then all the money they've spent on a high wear-resistant steel has been utterly squandered because a lower-wear steel at a thinner geometry will have better cutting ability and edge-retention based on that geometry.

MIGHT HAVE ....

Not will have....

That's correcting your assumption.

Depends on the actual knives, steels, HT, Hardness and actual geometry.

There would have to be a HUGE difference in geometry for some of those steels to catch up to the higher wear steels, think ground like a pry bar or worse, but even then it would be doubtful they could make up that kind of real differences. That or handicap the high wear steel some other way so it wouldn't perform.

 

[Rhinoknives1]

Super Steel is nothing more than Marketing hype! Just a few years back ATS-34 was a "Super Steel" Then CPM-154, Then CPMS30V Then Etc Etc!

Super for what, when and how often? To sell what?

 

[Ankerson]

Super Steel is nothing more than Marketing hype! Just a few years back ATS-34 was a "Super Steel" Then CPM-154, Then CPMS30V Then Etc Etc!

Super for what, when and how often? To sell what?

That's why I don't like it or really use it.

I like to use the following:

• Low alloy non stainless
• High Alloy non stainless
• Low Alloy Stainless
• High Alloy Stainless

 

[retzius]

I think 420HC, 1095, and 440C are super steels.

They are super because they come in knives that are cheap enough that my wife never notices a drastic change on the credit card bill.

At the end of the day, thats "super" enough for me

 

[Ankerson]

I think 420HC, 1095, and 440C are super steels.

They are super because they come in knives that are cheap enough that my wife never notices a drastic change on the credit card bill.

At the end of the day, thats "super" enough for me

Now that's funny.

 

[B34NS]

I'm not looking for knife. I'm looking at steel.

Well first you must define what you consider "regular" steel to be. Than someone can surely help you find a steel with twice the edge retention you're looking for. Maybe helping us figure out what material you cut through the most to use as a better starting place.

 

[ursamajor]

...the whole "super steel porn" obsession has gotten pretty carried away on these boards. I do not believe there is one best material for knife blades, all have their strengths and weaknesses...same for the processes used to produce the blade and production precision and quality control.

Amen. Does a knife, in it's overall design, materials, and cost meet the needs of your intended use for it? That is the question I ask. I don't care about steel type outside of that criteria. I have a steel liner American Lawman (AUS8A), that better fit my needs as an edc over a ZT 0561 (Elmax). The AL was easier to open and close (can't say the same for the linerless AL that I gave to my 15 y.o.) took a finer edge, proved to be a better slicer due to its nice hollow grind, and boasts a stronger lock for lapses in motor skills/unintentional clumsiness. And while it did not have the same edge retention, the edge retention was more than acceptable for my uses. But my intended use may be different than others.

There is a place for really every type of blade steel-it comes down to a person's needs and expectations of their equipment. With that, I don't look down my nose at any type of steel-I have my preferences, but they vary from knife to knife-task to task.

 

[AntDog]

I stick with INFI.

Yessir! :thumbup:

 

[RX-79G]

Well first you must define what you consider "regular" steel to be. Than someone can surely help you find a steel with twice the edge retention you're looking for. Maybe helping us figure out what material you cut through the most to use as a better starting place.

I wasn't clear, I guess. I'm not looking for a specific anything for a specific task. I'm trying to learn more about steels in general and high wear steels in particular. Like most knife people, I have absolutely no specific cutlery needs.

 

[singularity35]

Well first you must define what you consider "regular" steel to be. Than someone can surely help you find a steel with twice the edge retention you're looking for. Maybe helping us figure out what material you cut through the most to use as a better starting place.

I wasn't clear, I guess. I'm not looking for a specific anything for a specific task. I'm trying to learn more about steels in general and high wear steels in particular. Like most knife people, I have absolutely no specific cutlery needs.

B34NS is right. You made the title and here's what you wrote.

"Are there any "super steels" that will hold an edge twice as long as regular steel?"

So what steel as baseline did you have in mind when you asked? Or were you just looking for an excuse to argue with any answers?

 

[RX-79G]

B34NS is right. You made the title and here's what you wrote.

"Are there any "super steels" that will hold an edge twice as long as regular steel?"

So what steel as baseline did you have in mind when you asked? Or were you just looking for an excuse to argue with any answers?

Huh?

Is it really so difficult to understand that if you have a category like "super steel" the "regular" category is all the cutlery steels that don't fall into the first category? Did you maybe read the OP where I listed examples of each?

I already said that my specific OP was answered several pages ago. I simply hadn't realized that stuff like S110V was so incredibly wear resistant. In that light, I'm not sure why new posters are showing up to ask me what my question meant.


Which answers have I argued with that are about the OP? Did you read any of this? You can't just go by titles. "Star Wars" involves zero stars fighting with each other.

 

[Steel_Drake]

MIGHT HAVE ....

Not will have....

That's correcting your assumption.

Depends on the actual knives, steels, HT, Hardness and actual geometry.

There would have to be a HUGE difference in geometry for some of those steels to catch up to the higher wear steels, think ground like a pry bar or worse, but even then it would be doubtful they could make up that kind of real differences. That or handicap the high wear steel some other way so it wouldn't perform.

Yes, alright, "might have", however, you are perfectly well aware that the difference between the stock geometries on the vast majority of production folding knives and the kind of high-performance geometries you yourself advocate are precisely "HUGE". I think it's problematic to advocate steels in production knives that most buyers may not have the equipment or patience to re-profile to a high-performance geometry without emphasizing the significant role geometry plays in performance.

 

[singularity35]

But then you also said that "super steels" is a stupid name because it doesn't mean anything.

"Super steel" is a stupid name, and doesn't mean anything about the use of the metal or the kind of alloy it is. All the name really tells us is that the stuff is hard to make, hard to work and going to make the knife expensive. And we hope/assume/pray that all the extra expense yields measurably greater performance than the stuff that costs a third as much. And when they are good, we keep using them. There are plenty of "super steels" that are now "discontinued steels" because they weren't worth it.

Now you're saying that everybody should know what it means?

Huh?

Is it really so difficult to understand that if you have a category like "super steel" the "regular" category is all the cutlery steels that don't fall into the first category? Did you maybe read the OP where I listed examples of each?

I already said that my specific OP was answered several pages ago. I simply hadn't realized that stuff like S110V was so incredibly wear resistant. In that light, I'm not sure why new posters are showing up to ask me what my question meant.


Which answers have I argued with that are about the OP? Did you read any of this? You can't just go by titles. "Star Wars" involves zero stars fighting with each other.

I think you just like to argue about little things like sematics so much that you wind up contradicting yourself. You pose something in a forum and your putting yourself out there. So people can come in and ask what you meant and you can't let it go for whatever reason...

 

[B34NS]

Sure, but that doesn't draw any line between cheap A2 and S90V. That's all "super steel" means - when tool steels get pricey.

I get what you were trying to find out now. Well at least you know who Phil Wilson is now :thumbup:

 

[Ankerson]

I already said that my specific OP was answered several pages ago. I simply hadn't realized that stuff like S110V was so incredibly wear resistant. In that light, I'm not sure why new posters are showing up to ask me what my question meant.

A lot of people don't know that MOST of the current steels used in the knife industry are used in other areas of the steel industry and have been adapted for use in knife blades.

The knife industry is like 10% or less of the total steel industry, it's a big wide world out there.

 

[B34NS]

A lot of people don't know that MOST of the current steels used in the knife industry are used in other areas of the steel industry and have been adapted for use in knife blades.

The knife industry is like 10% or less of the total steel industry, it's a big wide world out there.

This. I do like the way you delineated between the alloys for conversation sake makes it much easier to understand what they were initially designed for instead of their industry adapted use. That Phil Wilson slicing a tomato on your YouTube should be gif though, mesmerizing 😉

 

[Ankerson]

This. I do like the way you delineated between the alloys for conversation sake makes it much easier to understand what they were initially designed for instead of their industry adapted use. That Phil Wilson slicing a tomato on your YouTube should be gif though, mesmerizing 😉

Thanks.

I try and put things into perspective if I can.

A lot of people like that video.