Are you over Super Steels?

Read your posts. The analysis and claims is straight from Cliff Stamp's Spyderco forum posts where you got your start. He got to you early and I recall your ignorant questions there where he enlightens you lmao. You may fool some Dog but not here.
 
craytab said:
Boy, glad I am not knife at your house. Or a nail for that matter. But good on ya for doing the tests! Small critique, get the camera to focus a bit more or don't post the pictures. It hurts looking at some of that out of focus stuff.
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Yeah, I knew some of those were blurry but I thought some would be beneficial anyway.
 
Stays Sharp said:
Read your posts. The analysis and claims is straight from Cliff Stamp's Spyderco forum posts where you got your start. He got to you early and I recall your ignorant questions there where he enlightens you lmao. You may fool some Dog but not here.
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Say what you want. I back my claims up with photos and real experience. I don't care about Cliff other than he post some real stuff about steels that I've personally seen myself. Can you refute what I've said or what he said ( like that matters to me) with anything solid? You can parrot Ankerson if you want, it's ok.
 
Nah, copy and pasting from someone else is not my style. That's you. Jim asked you a simple question and you were lost because all you were doing was mumbling someone else's findings. Better brush up in the Stamp forum.
 
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Stays Sharp said:
Nah, copy and pasting from someone else is not my style. That's you. Jim asked you a simple question and you were lost. Better brush up in the Stamp forum.
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What I thought. Trying to be cordial to other people and you take it as something else. Take care man.

To everyone else, there's a reason Sal Glesser (the main dude at Spyderco) wants to know the thoughts of both Jim Ankerson AND Cliff Stamp. They're two opposing trains of thought. Neither really right or wrong, just different people who use knives differently. Take from Ankerson what you want, he's knowledgeable, but realize there's more to knives than weak high carbide steels. That's his preference and nothing more. Too bad he can't realize it.
 
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bodog said:
sorry on mobile with fat fingers:0

I like to talk with the customers before they purchase a knife from me. I include details in my listing but info can be over looked. I don't make a whole lot of knives and don't plan on it. I wouldn't want my knives cutting nails, cans concrete ect. I use simple carbon and low alloy tool steels to target buyers that don't want to pay the high prices that go along with making a high alloy powder steel blade. I grind most of my knives under the .015" edge shoulders usually 15DPS. All of the steels I select are HT'd and ground to the intended application. If I ever made a blade for cutting through cans I would thicken the edge and cutting ability would be lost for things most people use knives for.
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Let's not turn this thread into a shit show. Keep the cross-forum references and cheap shots to yourself, we don't need or want either. Feel free to disagree with each other but do so civilly without making other members the topic of discussion. In other words, be nice or earn points.
 
Not favoring carbide steels AND following Cliff Stamp are not exclusive. I know first hand. Its your word for word parroting rhetoric that is the tell.

You are about the only forumite I've seen that has had issues with Jim. So far as to open threads in other forums in an attempt to refute him. I do not know him from Adam and have never even directly spoken with him but know him to remain cordial in these threads. So who should I be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt?
 
I'm not over super steels, but I'm not into them either. That's like asking if I prefer real or artificial rubber on the soles of my shoes.

High alloy steels are great on paper, but that's where the clear-cut distinctions end. "Better" doesn't mean better steel, but a better knife for a particular use and a particular user. Sometimes the better knife is the one that you're not afraid to use because you only paid $10 for it.

There are qualitative differences not found in data sheets, and lost on most people who think that metallurgical technicalities equal performance.
 
waterstoneblades said:
bodog said:
sorry on mobile with fat fingers:0

I like to talk with the customers before they purchase a knife from me. I include details in my listing but info can be over looked. I don't make a whole lot of knives and don't plan on it. I wouldn't want my knives cutting nails, cans concrete ect. I use simple carbon and low alloy tool steels to target buyers that don't want to pay the high prices that go along with making a high alloy powder steel blade. I grind most of my knives under the .015" edge shoulders usually 15DPS. All of the steels I select are HT'd and ground to the intended application. If I ever made a blade for cutting through cans I would thicken the edge and cutting ability would be lost for things most people use knives for.
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Oh, absolutely, no question. Some of these guys think 3V class steels are only for thick prybar type knives. Since you do the opposite, I'm wondering if you'd tell us why. Like I said before, I think what you're doing is spot on. The only reason I posted tests of cutting concrete, nails, and cans is because the makers want others to know their knives can do it, just like nathan carothers (nathan the machinist), because of special steels or heat treat regimens. Personally I think steels like 4V, 3V, etc are where it's at because, exactly like what youre doing, they can be taken thin enough to be exceptional cutters without needing to worry about chips and dings taking large parts of the edge out. Other people think differently. Let them. You know better because you've seen better and that's why you take these steels and grind them thin as all get out. I see it and know why and agree. It's not the popular thing right now. That'll change when certain hyped fads are over. I believe your knives, among several others, will be what changes things.

Why make 3V thick as crap? Shouldn't a steel like that be taken thinner while a weaker, more brittle steel like S110V be made thicker? That's just common sense and youre doing it while others are doing the exact opposite.
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Stays Sharp said:
Read your posts. The analysis and claims is straight from Cliff Stamp's Spyderco forum posts where you got your start. He got to you early and I recall your ignorant questions there where he enlightens you lmao. You may fool some Dog but not here.
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Not to derail this thread anymore than it sort off has been, but what's with Cliffstamp?

If someone can explain it to me, that would be great, as that forum and it's leader are on the cutting edge of knife steel snobbery....

They know so much about tool steels from a 'scientific' view, that it seems to me that they've lost any ability to use that knowlede for practical purposes...

Questions are answered with more questions, and it never ends. You would think at some point, all that data could be put to some practical use, instead of just adding more irrelevant data to the pile.

Sometimes people get so smart that they become stupid.

Jim, I know you're a part of that group, but the difference to me is that in your work, which I refer to a lot, you do a repeated test with steel.
It's a simple test. It shows edge retention in a real world application, and that is useful and easy to understand for everyone.

Maybe instead of all this discussion about Steel X does Y at Z, but only if conditions 1,2, and 3 are blah...some more 'real world testing' like Jim does would help us understand the basic characteristics of these steels.

Before someone goes crazy, I realize that there will always be a million variables, but, it's more important to do tests like Jim's, then sit around and argue about those 'million variables' like Cliffstamp.

I would love to see Jim take a nail, drive it into a 2X4, and as he cuts away at the wood, hit that nail with the edge....yup, I can list all the variables that would effect this tests "purity" however, it would give us a really useful reference for how a steel reacts to something that happens often in the real world....
 
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^
It's not that forum or the owner that is the problem. They have grown weary of him also.

Funny, just yesterday he went off on someone there for trying to make a distinction between real world first hand experience and his metallurgy graphs. Just... yesterday lmao.
 
JR88FAN said:
Not to derail this thread anymore than it sort off has been, but what's with Cliffstamp?

If someone can explain it to me, that would be great, as that forum and it's leader are on the cutting edge of knife steel snobbery....

They know so much about tool steels from a 'scientific' view, that it seems to me that they've lost any ability to use that knowlede for practical purposes...

Questions are answered with more questions, and it never ends. You would think at some point, all that data could be put to some practical use, instead of just adding more irrelevant data to the pile.

Sometimes people get so smart that they become stupid.

Jim, I know you're a part of that group, but the difference to me is that in your work, which I refer to a lot, you do a repeated test with steel.
It's a simple test. It shows edge retention in a real world application, and that is useful and easy to understand for everyone.

Maybe instead of all this discussion about Steel X does Y at Z, but only if conditions 1,2, and 3 are blah...some more 'real world testing' like Jim does would help us understand the basic characteristics of these steels.

Before someone goes crazy, I realize that there will always be a million variables, but, it's more important to do tests like Jim's, then sit around and argue about those 'million variables' like Cliffstamp.

I would love to see Jim take a nail, drive it into a 2X4, and as he cuts away at the wood, hit that nail with the edge....yup, I can list all the variables that would effect this tests "purity" however, it would give us a really useful reference for how a steel reacts to something that happens often in the real world....
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What about cutting into a couple of double walled cardboard boxes and hitting some low grit grinding wheels? That'd be a pretty decent test, I think, accident or not.

For whatever its worth, I agree, I think a knife should be able to do what you describe without much issue. Most people who use knives can attest that something similar happens to them. It might be me cutting through some thick boxes hitting a grinding wheel, a rancher cutting some wood from around a barbed wire fence, a fisherman hitting the spine too hard, or a boar hunter hitting a femur too hard. People who use knives for more than just testing know those are real things that happen. Asking for tests to incorporate these factors isn't absurd. As a matter of fact, it keeps things real. I don't know anyone who depends on a knife to cut clean cardboard for hours on end and doesn't expect to hit a fat nail or staple or whatever.
 
bodog said:
What about cutting into a couple of double walled cardboard boxes and hitting some low grit grinding wheels? That'd be a pretty decent test, I think, accident or not.

For whatever its worth, I agree, I think a knife should be able to do what you describe without much issue. Most people who use knives can attest that something similar happens to them. It might be me cutting through some thick boxes hitting a grinding wheel, a rancher cutting some wood from around a barbed wire fence, a fisherman hitting the spine too hard, or a boar hunter hitting a femur too hard. People who use knives for more than just testing know those are real things that happen. Asking for tests to incorporate these factors isn't absurd. As a matter of fact, it keeps things real. I don't know anyone who depends on a knife to cut clean cardboard for hours on end and doesn't expect to hit a fat nail or staple or whatever.
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I'm with you and Alex on this one. There are any times throughout my day where I encounter situations like this. Opening a brake rotor box, blade hits the rotor. Cutting a valve stem off of a rim, blades sometimes hits the rim. Cutting through thick cardboard that might have stuff in It like for the blade to hit.
Opening a box and not paying attention to see the staple that's also in the cardboard right in your cutting path.

All of these experiences have happened to me. I do not think it's unreasonable for a knife to be able to withstand an impact from something like that.

The day I got my delica4, I chipped the blade hitting the rim while cutting the valve stem off.
 
For Pete's sake, as Morrow already explained... let's discuss the topic, not each other or other enthusiasts.
 
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