Are you over Super Steels?

I have to assume that you are using the words "carbon steel" to refer to the non-stainless varieties of steel. Frankly, the only advantage that a "stainless" steel has over a "non-stainless" is the level of care/maintenance.

Over the last decade or so, the choice that knife buyers make has leaned heavily towards the "flavor of the month", that meaning that more individuals purchase a knife based on the "cool factor" of the steel used, rather then how well it fuctions as a knife. I am reminded of the period of time when a material called Talonite was all the rage because it was different and the "mall ninja" crowd thought it was so cool. After that it was CPMS30V.....I actually produced a number of knives from that particular steel, and found it to be some of the most troublesome steel that I have ever used. It was very difficult to work, and to this day, many of those S30V blades come back to me on a regular basis, simply because the owners can't sharpen them.

Knifemaking, and knives in general is all about trade offs.... there is no "ideal" steel for a knife, that covers all the "wants" of everyone. Each individual must decide for themselves those characteristics they value most, and seek a steel that most closely provides those characteristics.

Time and experience has taught me that the major factors most knowledgable buyers/users value in a knife are edge retention, toughness, and EASE OF SHARPENING. In all of those catagories, the favor falls to "carbon steel". Speaking personally, there are only two reasons that I can see why a person would choose a stainless blade.... 1. Their primary concern is minimal maintenance. 2. Bragging rights about having a blade made of the "latest and greatest" steel.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, what I spoke about earlier.... The Cool Factor, is currently the biggest selling point for most knife buyers, particularly in the tactical arena. An example is... most of us have seen the "multi-grinds" that are all the rage these days (a single blade that is partially hollow ground, partially flat ground, etc.) From a using standpoint, these blade are next to useless, but they sell very well because they look "cool".

What I foresee is that the current trend towards more and more stainless steel will continue for a while....but as the masses of a new generation discover its short comings for a blade, the focus will shift towards carbon steels again. I've been at this long enough to have seen this cycle take place before.....the only thing that changes are the names of the stainless steels.

I agree with this post from another thread and thought it fits nicely in this thread.

Post written by Ed Caffery
 
I am not even sure what 'super steel' means exactly.....

Every steel ever used on a knife is a compromise in one way or another, it just depends on the user and what they are willing to compromise.....more to the point, what are they using the knife for, and what steel works the best for that application.

The nice thing is that we have a lot more steels available and can really get the best steel for what we need/want out of a knife.
You just really need to use a lot of different knives to figure the real benefits out....
 
I am not even sure what 'super steel' means exactly.....

Every steel ever used on a knife is a compromise in one way or another, it just depends on the user and what they are willing to compromise.....more to the point, what are they using the knife for, and what steel works the best for that application.

The nice thing is that we have a lot more steels available and can really get the best steel for what we need/want out of a knife.
You just really need to use a lot of different knives to figure the real benefits out....

Exactly. And, even then it's more a hobby or fad and not absolutely necessary. Any well made knife, that's properly heat treated, in any steel combined with a good portable strop or stone is all that is needed for any task. If you ask me, the easiest to sharpen steels are the best option as they can quickly be touched up in the field and kept hair popping all the time.

People get obsessed with steel types when really, it just doesn't matter that much. Heat treatment and geometry is far more important then the type of steel used imo.

I bet the big knife companies laugh as they drain the bank accounts of steel snobs lol.
 
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I have to assume that you are using the words "carbon steel" to refer to the non-stainless varieties of steel. Frankly, the only advantage that a "stainless" steel has over a "non-stainless" is the level of care/maintenance.

Over the last decade or so, the choice that knife buyers make has leaned heavily towards the "flavor of the month", that meaning that more individuals purchase a knife based on the "cool factor" of the steel used, rather then how well it fuctions as a knife. I am reminded of the period of time when a material called Talonite was all the rage because it was different and the "mall ninja" crowd thought it was so cool. After that it was CPMS30V.....I actually produced a number of knives from that particular steel, and found it to be some of the most troublesome steel that I have ever used. It was very difficult to work, and to this day, many of those S30V blades come back to me on a regular basis, simply because the owners can't sharpen them.

Knifemaking, and knives in general is all about trade offs.... there is no "ideal" steel for a knife, that covers all the "wants" of everyone. Each individual must decide for themselves those characteristics they value most, and seek a steel that most closely provides those characteristics.

Time and experience has taught me that the major factors most knowledgable buyers/users value in a knife are edge retention, toughness, and EASE OF SHARPENING. In all of those catagories, the favor falls to "carbon steel". Speaking personally, there are only two reasons that I can see why a person would choose a stainless blade.... 1. Their primary concern is minimal maintenance. 2. Bragging rights about having a blade made of the "latest and greatest" steel.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, what I spoke about earlier.... The Cool Factor, is currently the biggest selling point for most knife buyers, particularly in the tactical arena. An example is... most of us have seen the "multi-grinds" that are all the rage these days (a single blade that is partially hollow ground, partially flat ground, etc.) From a using standpoint, these blade are next to useless, but they sell very well because they look "cool".

What I foresee is that the current trend towards more and more stainless steel will continue for a while....but as the masses of a new generation discover its short comings for a blade, the focus will shift towards carbon steels again. I've been at this long enough to have seen this cycle take place before.....the only thing that changes are the names of the stainless steels.

I agree with this post from another thread and thought it fits nicely in this thread.

Post written by Ed Caffery

I hate to quote this monster of a post, but I can only agree to a point....

There are many people who do no more then cut cardboard, maybe a little food, and that's about it with a knife.

There would be a great advantage in using something like M390/20CV S90, ZDP-189 as these steels can do that forever and retain a great edge.

If you are more inclined to use your knife for chopping, or more impact type cutting, something like 3V(Z-Wear/CruWear/PD1)M4 or higher carbon steels like O1/W2/52100/1095 might be a better way to go.

If you do a little bit of everything then S30/35VN/CPM154 may make sense.

There is nothing wrong with having these choices, even though they are not as cut and dry as my list above....!
 
Exactly. And, even then it's more a hobby or fad and not absolutely necessary. Any well made knife, that's properly heat treated, in any steel combined with a good portable strop or stone is all that is needed for any task. If you ask me, the easiest to sharpen steels are the best option as they can quickly be touched up in the field and kept hair popping all the time.

People get obsessed with steel types when really, it just doesn't matter that much. Heat treatment and geometry is far more important then the type of steel used imo.

I bet the big knife companies laugh as they drain the bank accounts of steel snobs lol.

Agreed 100%.......
 
I hate to quote this monster of a post, but I can only agree to a point....

There are many people who do no more then cut cardboard, maybe a little food, and that's about it with a knife.

There would be a great advantage in using something like M390/20CV S90, ZDP-189 as these steels can do that forever and retain a great edge.

If you are more inclined to use your knife for chopping, or more impact type cutting, something like 3V(Z-Wear/CruWear/PD1)M4 or higher carbon steels like O1/W2/52100/1095 might be a better way to go.

If you do a little bit of everything then S30/35VN/CPM154 may make sense.

There is nothing wrong with having these choices, even though they are not as cut and dry as my list above....!

And, I agree with you for the most part as well but, keep in mind it is still not really necessary to get that choosie beyond hobby. A steel like 1095(as an example) could be stropped back to hair popping in a few passes(literally seconds) then back to the cardboard. No lengthy sharpening at the bench when it gets dull, no expensive diamond stones, and you could afford a new blade every year and still save money over the one super steel knife of your choosing.

Plus, if ever in a pinch, it could be sharpened on a rock found almost anywhere. Try that with S110V lol. You will be left with a pointy spoon eventually without your DMT's
 
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And, I agree with you for the most part as well but, keep in mind it is still not really necessary to get that choosie beyond hobby. A steel like 1095(as an example) could be stropped back to hair popping in a few passes(literally seconds) then back to the cardboard. No lengthy sharpening at the bench when it gets dull, no expensive diamond stones, and you could afford a new blade every year and still save money over the one super steel knife of your choosing.

Plus, if ever in a pinch, it could be sharpened on a rock found almost anywhere. Try that with S110V lol. You will be left with a pointy spoon eventually without your DMT's

The sharpening aspect is a big thing to consider for sure....

It's great to have a steel that holds an edge a very long time, but if it's too difficult to get that edge back, that has to be a factor....

With that said, there are other factors!
Do you know how to sharpen a knife?
Will you ever need to field sharpen?
Do you have the time to, or even like to sharpen?

How you answer the above questions should also play into your steel choice...

There are far too many people that own a knife that can't put an edge back on it, or think it's a task similar to Pulling teeth......they would greatly benefit from something like 52100/1095 or even VG-10 in SS, where as you said, a piece of cardboard will do the trick.

What I would really like to see is more folders available in high carbon steels.
I would love to see a Spyderco, BM, Hinderer, Strider, CRK, etc in 1095 or 52100.
 
Quality steel

Better than ""super steel""


BD1 seems to just as fine a cutter
 
I am not even sure what 'super steel' means exactly...

The nice thing is that we have a lot more steels available and can really get the best steel for what we need/want out of a knife.

^this, on both counts.

As a maker and a user, by no means am I "over" higher-alloy steels like 3V, CPM-154 or S35VN, ElMax etc... but I don't really have a lot of call for the really out-there stuff and I'm certainly not "over" the simpler alloys like 10XX, O1, 52100 and so on.

It's nice to have options :)
 
No, not at all.
The different steels are an option and I like to have options. This hobby of ours is about having fun and trying different steels just because we are not limited. If we were limited, then the thread title would be different.
Whatever flavor of the day is being carried doesn't really matter much at all as long as the person it belongs to believes it will cover all their needs. And that is what makes it fun!!!!
It's like fishing lures, there's plenty to choose from and we've got a tackle box full of them, but we always pull out the one lure that we believe will catch fish that day.
Who do you know that is an angler that doesn't have a duffle bag full of different lures? It's the same for the knife knuts.
 
Those who use straight razors alternate days with a group of knives . But I never had a proper metallurgical explaination.

Maybe it's just an excellent excuse to have many blades! :D
 
No, not at all.
The different steels are an option and I like to have options. This hobby of ours is about having fun and trying different steels just because we are not limited. If we were limited, then the thread title would be different.
Whatever flavor of the day is being carried doesn't really matter much at all as long as the person it belongs to believes it will cover all their needs. And that is what makes it fun!!!!
It's like fishing lures, there's plenty to choose from and we've got a tackle box full of them, but we always pull out the one lure that we believe will catch fish that day.
Who do you know that is an angler that doesn't have a duffle bag full of different lures? It's the same for the knife knuts.

I agree with this too. I would not want to be limited and it is nice to have options. I just think sometimes us knife nuts get too caught up in the steel choice. I bounce between a lot of hobbies and I always find when I am not reading on here, because I am into one of my other hobbies at the time, I notice the steel choice just doesn't matter that much in every day use unless going to the extremes. Especially since I started stropping in between sharpenings.
 
I'm not exactly over new or exotic steels, but I find myself appreciating the finer and thinner edge that lower-carbide steels can achieve. Sometime all I want is an easy to sharpen knife that can take a screaming sharp edge.

As long as the steel used is optimal for the blade geometry and the knife's intended function, I don't really care what it is.
 
And, I agree with you for the most part as well but, keep in mind it is still not really necessary to get that choosie beyond hobby. A steel like 1095(as an example) could be stropped back to hair popping in a few passes(literally seconds) then back to the cardboard. No lengthy sharpening at the bench when it gets dull, no expensive diamond stones, and you could afford a new blade every year and still save money over the one super steel knife of your choosing.

Plus, if ever in a pinch, it could be sharpened on a rock found almost anywhere. Try that with S110V lol. You will be left with a pointy spoon eventually without your DMT's

It takes me literally only a few seconds to touch up S110V. Sharpening has a fairly nasty learning curve, but once you get it maintaining an edge with almost any steel is pretty quick and easy, provided you have the proper equipment. Now reprofiling something like S110V? That's where it becomes a bit more of a time sink.
 
Nope.

S200v!


anglerfish_zps2bpjq3ca.jpg



You add them up right?


Also, that manix has cut up several fish, a ton of cardboard, some sticks and a bunch ofoother things. All on a fifteen DPS edge. I haven't had to maintain the edge much. Just a light stropping

Love it
 
I used 1095 & 420HC for years when those were the only common choices available at the hardware store.
Currently CPM154 & D2 are my main choices along with M390.
What I have found is M390 is no harder to touch up than 1095. I use different equipment with the newer steels, than what was required with 1095. Actual time spent touching up the blade has gone down simply because I don't have to touch up as often.
I will also say I relearned sharpening and adjusted to the steel.
A big mistake people make is to buy a so called super steel before they learn to sharpen.
1095 is a good steel and has a place for some people and some uses. Just not my uses, so I just choose not to ever use it again.

Choice is good.
 
Just never felt the need for them. I don't baton, pry, cut asphalt, or chop aluminum sheeting with my knives. I cut things like rope, wood, and fish/game.

I really enjoy reading the forums here about all the custom and expensive knives, but when I leave the house its a Victorinox in my pocket. When I leave the city limits I grab a $20 Mora.
 
Not over them but I will not go out of my way to have them. For my purposes aus 8 and vg10 does just fine
 
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