Are you over Super Steels?

[Ankerson]

Shouldn't be too hard for 52100 properly hardened. I've cut 3100' of used cardboard with a $7 knife and it would still slice paper no problem.

Where can I get this miracle knife that costs $7 and will jump tall buildings in a single bound.

How many times did you sharpen that knife in the process?

Like 10 times touching it up at least.

I don't believe you, cut and dry.

Sounds like a fish story to me.

 

[bodog]

And you never will, not an honest test anyway that isn't cooked.

I hope you're not including what I've just shown in that "cooked" category just because it's different than what you've claimed from your experience.

 

[bodog]

Nah I really meant that. As an apology.

No problem. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Armadew]

FWIW, I just added a fine piece of (custom) Gayle Bradley m4 to the collection. It is also around .010-.012 behind the edge. I'm carrying and using that one daily and have already done some rope cutting so I will have another point of reference soon.

I told you to stop making me jealous!

 

[Surfingringo]

I told you to stop making me jealous!

You know he'll probably make you one if you bug him enough. Thats how I managed it. hah

 

[SBaker34]

I'm sure it's hard but I was thinking along the lines of if 52100 can take 10 dps and S110V can take 15 dps, then test edge retention at those angles and test for whatever else kind of cutting we want to know about. Nothing really "scientific" but just more data points that we can consider and argue about.

When Cliff Stamp started saying that high carbide volume steels' edges failed at thinner angles and high edge stability steels outperformed them a those thin angles, I suggested a test where the HCV's be compared to HES' at whatever angle they are stable at. I never saw that happen. I think it would be interesting to see.

That is exactly what I am very very curious about. Will 52100 at 10dps outcut s110v at 15dps or can you take s110v thick enough to be tougher than 52100 and still out cut it?

 

[Ankerson]

I hope you're not including what I've just shown in that "cooked" category just because it's different than what you've claimed from your experience.

Nope.

 

[me2]

Where can I get this miracle knife that costs $7 and will jump tall buildings in a single bound.

How many times did you sharpen that knife in the process?

Like 10 times touching it up at least.

I don't believe you, cut and dry.

Sounds like a fish story to me.

I don't think I've heard anyone say hardness doesn't matter. If its happened I'd like to read it for myself.

The knife is a Chicago Cutlery Partoku from the local grocery store. I'm sure you can get something similar from the stores in Raleigh. It was not sharpened or touched up during the test. In fact it was just resharpened last week. Further details are in the testing cheap knives thread in the reviews and testing forum.

 

[Ankerson]

I don't think I've heard anyone say hardness doesn't matter. If its happened I'd like to read it for myself.

The knife is a Chicago Cutlery Partoku from the local grocery store. I'm sure you can get something similar from the stores in Raleigh. It was not sharpened or touched up during the test. In fact it was just resharpened last week. Further details are in the testing cheap knives thread in the reviews and testing forum.

Tested a few of those CC knives myself, higher end ones.

 

[bodog]

Nope.

Since you're the dude to ask about cutting rope and cardboard in a controlled manner, what do you think about a 4 3/4" +/- fully flat ground blade made of 52100 at approximately .25" at the thickest part of the spine dropping to about .020" behind the edge sharpened to about 18 dps and hardened to 61 HRC cutting between 600 and 700 linear feet of mildly dirty cardboard? Earlier you said you didn't think 52100 could do it and still slice printer paper. Have your thoughts changed now after seeing photos of it being done? And if you saw it done in front of you, would you classify 52100 as a super steel or would you classify the heat treatment as something extraordinarily good and quite possibly worth looking into?

I'm sure others would like to hear your response but I'm really only asking for my own curiosity.

 

[me2]

I replied to this in post #316. Already done.

To expand on Sodak's point, Buck did some CATRA testing several years ago when researching their Edge 2K changes that showed their 420HC could out score a super steel at the time in BG42 by sharpening the 420HC at a lower angle. The changes weren't that drastic. Now, when the BG42 was resharpened to the same Edge 2K angle, it did better than the 420HC. They did not keep going to find the breaking point, and on CATRA card stock, there might not be one when comparing those 2 steels.

 

[me2]

Tested a few of those CC knives myself, higher end ones.

So does that mean you think the results I posted are possible, or do you still think I just made it up or did some sort of "cooked" test?

 

[Ankerson]

Since you're the dude to ask about cutting rope and cardboard in a controlled manner, what do you think about a 4 3/4" +/- blade made of 52100 at approximately .25" at the thickest part of the spine dropping to about .020" behind the edge sharpened to about 18 dps and hardened to 61 HRC cutting between 600 and 700 linear feet of mildly dirty cardboard? Earlier you said you didn't think 52100 could do it and still slice printer paper. Have your thoughts changed now after seeing photos of it being done?

600 to 700 linear ft of cardboard really isn't that much cardboard, not really when testing, especially with a fresh edge.

Never said that 52100 couldn't do it.

That would depend on the cardboard and the knife, but in general is not that bad to cut that amount.

I have some 3/4" heavy duty stuff that is interesting that I use as part of some testing, example of that here in this photo.

 

[bodog]

600 to 700 linear ft of cardboard really isn't that much cardboard, not really when testing, especially with a fresh edge.

Never said that 52100 couldn't do it.

That would depend on the cardboard and the knife, but in general is not that bad to cut that amount.

I have some 3/4" heavy duty stuff that is interesting that I use as part of some testing, example of that here in this photo.

You said you didn't think 52100 could cut that much and still be able to cut printer paper. What would you attribute the better than expected performance to? It's not a thin blade. It's not a coarsly finished edge. It doesn't have a lot of vanadium, tungsten, or other really hard carbides to do the cutting, it's really nothing but the steel itself.

To be completely honest, I'm sure I could have cut around 50% more and still cut printer paper. Some parts started to snag just a tiny bit but the majority of the blade still sliced crisply.

I'm leaving it at just the cardboard cutting and leaving out everything else the knife has done since the last time the edge was refreshed. Would you say that that kind of performance is oddly high for 52100?

 

[Ankerson]

You said you didn't think 52100 could cut that much and still be able to cut printer paper. What would attribute the better than expected performance to? To be completely honest, I'm sure I could have cut around 50% more and still cut printer paper. Some parts started to snag just a tiny bit but the majority of the blade still sliced crisply.

I'm leaving it at just the cardboard cutting and leaving out everything else the knife has done since the last time the edge was refreshed. Would you say that that kind of performance is oddly high for 52100?

In a custom knife?

Not really high IMO.

Although one wouldn't really know for sure until actual testing was done to see what would really happen.

Knowing cutting cardboard is a PITA and boring as hell so I don't envy you at all.

 

[bodog]

In a custom knife?

Not really high IMO.

Although one wouldn't really know for sure until actual testing was done to see what would really happen.

Knowing cutting cardboard is a PITA and boring as hell so I don't envy you at all.

I'm just trying to see why there is a difference is between your thoughts posted here:

Personally I dunno, don't think it would be possible based on what I know unless the variables where seriously lopsided to favor 52100 and that would have to be done on purpose.

Once would have to handicap 20CV really bad in a number of ways.

In response to these questions:

.

Jim, based on your experience, what would you have to do to 52100 so it could hold an edge like 20CV?
Is this even possible? If so, there must be a major trade-off...
I am having a difficult time with 52100 going through 300ft of dirty cardboard and then still be able to slice printer paper.
That has never been my experience with that steel..

And now. Since you didn't correct the other poster that you believed 52100 could cut 300 feet of cardboard and still cut printer paper so that another member could be educated that it's absolutely possible, then it'd seem somewhat logical to assume you agreed with his assertion that it would, in fact, be hard to believe.

I'm just trying to clarify. Maybe its one of those things where you didn't see the assertion at the end of his post, or just didn't feel like correcting his beliefs.

I, too, never knew that 52100 was capable of having good to great edge retention coupled with good to great toughness until I used this knife.

 

[Ankerson]

I'm just trying to see why there is a difference is between your thoughts posted here:



In response to these questions:

.

And now. Since you didn't correct the other poster that you believed 52100 could cut 300 feet of cardboard and still cut printer paper so that another member could be educated that it's absolutely possible, then it'd seem somewhat logical to assume you agreed with his assertion that it would, in fact, be hard to believe.

I'm just trying to clarify. Maybe its one of those things where you didn't see the assertion at the end of his post, or just didn't feel like correcting his beliefs.

You mean between 20CV and 52100?

My opinion stands on that.

Actually have a 20CV custom folder in hand now that I will be testing for edge retention, 62 HRC and .006".

 

[Surfingringo]

I'm pretty sure Jim was saying he didn't think it would be possible to get 52100 to hold an edge like 20cv, not cut 300 ft of cardboard. Most any decent steel properly sharpened could do that I think.

 

[bodog]

I'm pretty sure Jim was saying he didn't think it would be possible to get 52100 to hold an edge like 20cv, not cut 300 ft of cardboard. Most any decent steel properly sharpened could do that I think.

I agree, but I'm wondering why he didn't let the other dude know that it's not that big of a deal for any good knife to do it. I guess I'm gonna go home and cut more cardboard to see how long a paper cutting edge lasts on this knife. It kind of surprised me that someone said that 52100 couldnt do it and no one corrected him. I didn't think it was that big of a deal either.

 

[bodog]

You mean between 20CV and 52100?

My opinion stands on that.

Actually have a 20CV custom folder in hand now that I will be testing for edge retention, 62 HRC and .006".

Let's say you get 1000 cuts from that knife you're about tontest, just a for instance. If you thickened the shoulders to .020" and thickened the spine to .25", how much would you estimate the performance would drop at the same edge angle?