If no one was buying them at the pricepoint they're currently at then yes, but a lot of places are sold out on them, meaning pricing isnt an issue. Also, many times they are made using higher end materials, warranting a higher price. I think they're good where they are.
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Are ZT's overpriced?
- Thread starter Kai Corp.
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I do think that you could find as a couple others have mentioned older kershaws with similar specs that were priced lower. However, the market and material costs have changed. Plus every company has knives that are a better value than some others just in materials/specs. Look at the PM2 it sells like hotcakes for $150 and gets heaps of praise, yet the Manix 2 has similar materials, same blade steel, same handle materials etc. for $85 and it doesn't get nearly as much attention and while heavier I'd wager it would stand up better to hard use/abuse. So no based on previous kershaws I would not brand ZT's as being overpriced.
As to if ZT's are overpriced in general, that's very personal. I'd say if you want a Ti lock bar slab handle it would be tough to find one with all the features of the 0560, made in the USA, and for less money. Would I pay $150 for a steel handle 0566, nope, do I think the 0801cf is a great deal at a pre-order price of ~$250, absolutely! All is not roses though, I was not overly impressed nor disappointed with my 0551 or 0561, would I spend $200/260 on them using my examples as the deciding quality factor, no. However, I'm not a mall ninja spending hours making you tube videos flipping knives open trying to imitate an auto so the weak blade retention both of mine had was annoying. Nothing like finding your 0561 partially open in your pocket twice in the same field day to make you rethink the knife you put in your pocket thereafter. Sadly it seems too many companies are catering to the knife flipping mall ninjas with weak blade retention these days as I just sent a BM 810 back for the same problem, very weak blade retention.
While I have no problem with the Ti lock bar, and if done right it's a very elegant design, I don't see it as having any real advantage over other locking designs either. It increases material costs, adds thickness, requires an exposed metal handle, steel on ti wear issue (though I think it's highly over blown depending on the design) However, for the manufacturer people equate that feature as a status/fashion symbol of high end custom knives so it sells knives. Over the years I've noticed that most production Ti lock bar knives from various companies under say $400 (and some over *cough strider cough*) all have highly variable lock bar tension, engagement, and detent strength, compared to other designs, none of which I find a desirable feature at any price. Seems there's a lot less QC issues with a simple steel liner covered by a G10 handle.
I'd say most ZT's are good quality for the price, especially if you must have a Ti slab handle, and made in the USA which alone is worth a lot these days. Not amazing, and not overpriced or disappointing, as picky as I am that's actually more praise than many companies would get. If they came out with something that struck me and the price was reasonable to me I'd buy another.
As to if ZT's are overpriced in general, that's very personal. I'd say if you want a Ti lock bar slab handle it would be tough to find one with all the features of the 0560, made in the USA, and for less money. Would I pay $150 for a steel handle 0566, nope, do I think the 0801cf is a great deal at a pre-order price of ~$250, absolutely! All is not roses though, I was not overly impressed nor disappointed with my 0551 or 0561, would I spend $200/260 on them using my examples as the deciding quality factor, no. However, I'm not a mall ninja spending hours making you tube videos flipping knives open trying to imitate an auto so the weak blade retention both of mine had was annoying. Nothing like finding your 0561 partially open in your pocket twice in the same field day to make you rethink the knife you put in your pocket thereafter. Sadly it seems too many companies are catering to the knife flipping mall ninjas with weak blade retention these days as I just sent a BM 810 back for the same problem, very weak blade retention.
While I have no problem with the Ti lock bar, and if done right it's a very elegant design, I don't see it as having any real advantage over other locking designs either. It increases material costs, adds thickness, requires an exposed metal handle, steel on ti wear issue (though I think it's highly over blown depending on the design) However, for the manufacturer people equate that feature as a status/fashion symbol of high end custom knives so it sells knives. Over the years I've noticed that most production Ti lock bar knives from various companies under say $400 (and some over *cough strider cough*) all have highly variable lock bar tension, engagement, and detent strength, compared to other designs, none of which I find a desirable feature at any price. Seems there's a lot less QC issues with a simple steel liner covered by a G10 handle.
I'd say most ZT's are good quality for the price, especially if you must have a Ti slab handle, and made in the USA which alone is worth a lot these days. Not amazing, and not overpriced or disappointing, as picky as I am that's actually more praise than many companies would get. If they came out with something that struck me and the price was reasonable to me I'd buy another.
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I think nearly all the Spydercos are overpriced considering you can't disassemble them without voiding the warranty. I didn't know that when I bought my two Spydecos, or I'd never have bought them. That's just a silly policy. I think my 561 is a bit of a lemon but considering the shape some XMs I've seen were in it wasn't overpriced. Really the only problem it has is that the carbidizing apparently wasn't very good because it's worn pretty fast, but I can pay a guy $10 to fix that. I'm not familiar with the older Kershaws, but all the ones I have are good value, probably better value than the one ZT I have. Never another Spydie, though. That's just crazy!
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I will take a ZT Hinderer design for $175-250 any day of the week. I will probably never be able to justify spending $600-800 on a XM series knife from him. Personally i don't feel like I need to now that I bought this amazing 0550. I think these ZT knives are made of top quality materials, buy amazing designers, for people on a budget. No, I don't think ZT Knives are overpriced. I am waiting for the 0566 to be released.
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The ZT MSRP is overpriced compared to what the knives oftentimes sell for at competitive prices at competitive marketplaces - besides that - it is subjective based upon each person's knowledge of other competitive/comparable options in the marketplace. For loyal kershaw/ZT owners - they may well blindly buy at whatever price point is set - others may look around to see what else is out there for a comparable price or much less... KAI knows this by sales numbers and can adjust their pricing accordingly to the sweet spot that works for them and buyers.
I would definitely welcome a budget ZT option or two - but that is what Kershaw branded knives are for no? I just wish that there were more nice non-china steel options from kershaw available currently - personal taste.
I like the new blackwashed blade and handle options - that is thinking outside of the box a little - I get bored when kershaw/ZT churns out black G10 handle after black G10 handle with a beadblast/stonewash finish =)
*** We as customers/purchasers of ZT knives do not know at what cost KAI is selling them to dealers etc... The markup from that base price to what the actual purchase price is varies a lot based upon the seller - the market then sets the price markup from there on out.
Since KAI cannot control what price the seller decides to offer the knife at - how much control do they really have over the perception that ZT's are overpriced? If their base price is competitive and offer an acceptable level of coverage/profit to dealers of course...
Rambling thoughts...
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First of all I apologize for going off topic KAI. Actually yes, you can take them apart without voiding the warranty.
Basically any damage caused by you taking it apart/putting it together will be your and not Spyderco's responsibility.
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Also apologize for the OT. Thanks. That's fair. Apparently I was misinformed on the Spyderco forum. For what it's worth when someone suggested this policy was in effect I was more than skeptical, but they posted something that appeared to verify the policy. Good to know it's not as it was represented.
High end knives come with so much expectation that it's really difficult for the manufacturer to live up to, but since the original question was about a comparison with the Kershaw line I'd have to say that the Kershaws are more bang for the buck. I like my little LE Zing as much as I like my ZT0561 and I regret I never had the opportunity to sample some of the Kershaw knives from the former epoch. I have ordered a ZT0566 and am considering another beauty.
Update: I just pulled the 561 out and was looking at it, and it's a darned beautiful knife. I'm really glad I bought that big boy, and I'm looking forward to the 566.
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Looks like the verdict is that they're not overpriced, unless they are?
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My G10 Tyrades were very under priced and a deal that will only come around once. $70 is almost theft for a knife like that. 0550 are almost that good of a deal for what you are getting. Got my last one for $130. At MAP the regular production ones are priced just right, and most can be had for 15% to 20% under that.
I don't think we will be needing a price increase for 2014.
I don't think we will be needing a price increase for 2014.
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Shut up and take my money!
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No, they're not. People are just used to cheap chinese crap and paying for an quality American-made product isn't something people are accustomed to do anymore.
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I don't have much experience with the older Kershaw offerings, but the scope of ZT is different than that of the Kershaw branded knives. Initially it seemed that the ZT mission was to offer heavy duty tactical/Military/LEO knives with excellent materials. More recently the ZT mission has changed with the market to offer the "best that Kershaw/ZT can produce. This means premium materials, designs, designers and quality control backed by the amazing KAI customer service and warrant department. So you cannot really compare the older Kershaw brand to the newer ZT brand because of the different purpose and missions of the two brands at this point. Within the discussion of ZT itself, you are getting knives that are produced with customer knife components, but on a line and with a much more attractive price.
I'm very excited about the new offerings and direction that ZT is moving. I'm also impressed that budget knives like the 0566 kept the premium steel and design (the essence of the 0560) while being able to save money on the other aspects of the execution. Had one ZT previously which I sold, I'll probably pick up 3 of the new designs this year.
I'm very excited about the new offerings and direction that ZT is moving. I'm also impressed that budget knives like the 0566 kept the premium steel and design (the essence of the 0560) while being able to save money on the other aspects of the execution. Had one ZT previously which I sold, I'll probably pick up 3 of the new designs this year.
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Not to derail the thread further but I was the one that posted that. I don't think you were misinformed. I agree with 9blades interpretation of what their warranty says but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't the interpretation of Spyderco themselves. When an admin who works for the company comes out and says, 'disassembly voids your warranty' then I am going to believe them over my own interpretation of their wording.
Freewheeling, I will PM you the link to where I found it.
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I dont think they are overpriced when you consider the state of the economy. One view piont is that everyone is hurting so the prices should be lower to entice people to buy the products since there is less disposable income. My view is different. I understand that EVERYONE is hurting not just the consumer but the manufacturers. And as such i feel that if KAI wants to keep a certain level of quality then the price is going to reflect that. I certainly dont think KAI is deliberately trying to take advantage of customers by raising prices while offering less. I simply feel its the unfortunate circumstance of higher costs of raw materials, higher cost of new and refined methods of building the products and constantly offering new and diverse products.
Do I miss the days when i could buy a the Ti bump with multicolor anodized handles in three flavors with a satin finish S30V blade for less than $200? Sure I do. But some people act as if knife prices are the ONLY thing that has gone up. I have to commend KAI for committing to offering a high quality product made in the USA come hell or High water. And I honestly dont see any way that KAI could produce the amount of designs it does in the limited quantities it does, to the level of fit and finish that it does at a cheaper price. The ONLY way I can see it happening is to move more production overseas which could introduce a whole new set of problems not to mention cause even more whining. I dont like paying $200+ for the knives I choose to buy. But I dont think there is a conspiracy behind the dollar sign.
I challenge anyone to find a company that currently offers the quality, refinement, materials, features, diversity not to mention do the majority of that in the USA at a price point similar to KAI. Also who do you know that offers the no questions asked warranty that KAI does? I think anyone would be hard pressed to name a single company that even comes close. My opinion? I think its the opposite. I think we have been consistently spoiled by kershaw. They are the superhero if you will of the knife industry. And just like any good superhero many of them get no respect and too much is expected of them.
Do I miss the days when i could buy a the Ti bump with multicolor anodized handles in three flavors with a satin finish S30V blade for less than $200? Sure I do. But some people act as if knife prices are the ONLY thing that has gone up. I have to commend KAI for committing to offering a high quality product made in the USA come hell or High water. And I honestly dont see any way that KAI could produce the amount of designs it does in the limited quantities it does, to the level of fit and finish that it does at a cheaper price. The ONLY way I can see it happening is to move more production overseas which could introduce a whole new set of problems not to mention cause even more whining. I dont like paying $200+ for the knives I choose to buy. But I dont think there is a conspiracy behind the dollar sign.
I challenge anyone to find a company that currently offers the quality, refinement, materials, features, diversity not to mention do the majority of that in the USA at a price point similar to KAI. Also who do you know that offers the no questions asked warranty that KAI does? I think anyone would be hard pressed to name a single company that even comes close. My opinion? I think its the opposite. I think we have been consistently spoiled by kershaw. They are the superhero if you will of the knife industry. And just like any good superhero many of them get no respect and too much is expected of them.
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Well, now you can get a full titanium handled Rexford design for under $200. 
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Exactly. ^ Glorious!
Expensive? Maybe... but "expensive" also varies from one person to the next. I think $100 is expensive, but there are also others that think $500 is cheap...
Overpriced? Not at all... People are obviously still buying them, so they're not priced higher than the market will bear. And I don't see many (any?) comparable competitor products priced lower. Awesome designs (both collaborations and in-house), premium materials and great craftsmanship, and excellent customer service. Factor all those in, and the ZT's are a bargain for what you get.
As for the comparisons to the older Kershaw models, what does it matter? Kershaw and ZT are both part of the same company. Across the brands, they offer numerous designs at different price points to fit a broad customer base. Just sounds like good business to me.
Overpriced? Not at all... People are obviously still buying them, so they're not priced higher than the market will bear. And I don't see many (any?) comparable competitor products priced lower. Awesome designs (both collaborations and in-house), premium materials and great craftsmanship, and excellent customer service. Factor all those in, and the ZT's are a bargain for what you get.
As for the comparisons to the older Kershaw models, what does it matter? Kershaw and ZT are both part of the same company. Across the brands, they offer numerous designs at different price points to fit a broad customer base. Just sounds like good business to me.
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You are correct, sir. I don't understand it, and don't like it, but it is what it is.
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