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arkansas stones?
- Thread starter stedram
- Start date
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- Jan 10, 2004
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I would recommend a Sharpmaker. Using stones takes a great deal of skill. You will have a razor edge in minutes with the Sharpmaker.
Here is a pic of one-
http://newgraham.com/detail.aspx?ID=3595
Here is a pic of one-
http://newgraham.com/detail.aspx?ID=3595
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2005
- Messages
- 6,768
I second what Redhawk said , if you know how to freehand , then by all means score some stones.
There are different grades of stones and different kinds , a lot of which I have just recently heard of , such as India Stones, anyways.
Arkansas come in soft, medium and hard grades , each stone a seperate step in the sharpening process , hard being the last one would use.
There are different grades of stones and different kinds , a lot of which I have just recently heard of , such as India Stones, anyways.
Arkansas come in soft, medium and hard grades , each stone a seperate step in the sharpening process , hard being the last one would use.
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- Aug 4, 2001
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I have coarse, fine and ultra-fine Arkansas stones, the ultra-fine is a black stone. I like the black Akansas for touch ups and finishing an edge. I don't use the coarse, because I found it soaks up oil like a sponge and doesn't cut very fast on the newer wonder-steels. I rarely let my edge get dull, but if I do I will use a DMT diamond stone first, followed by the black Arkansas and a few passes on a strop. There is a certain tactile pleasure in useing the black stone, and I like it because it's old fashioned and traditional - and it really works!
Cliff Stamp
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Generally they are not well regarded by most in comparison to other stones as they cut fairly slowly for their level of finish.
They will produce a very highly polished edge.
They will have some issues with the very high carbide steels, but the main difference will just be cutting speed vs similar grit diamond or waterstones.
-Cliff
Arkansas stone are chert-cemented diatomacious earth from the Devonian era (Arkansas was a sea bed back then). Diatoms are microscopic marine creatures, like plankton, that range in size from about 5 to 20 microns or larger and grow their shells from silica rather than calcium carbonate. When they die their skeletons sink to the bottom and get covered with more sediment, then pressure and geothermal activity partly dissolves their shells (glass is slightly soluble in hot alkaline water), the silica reprecipitates around them and cements their shells together to form stone. Soft Arkansas stone is loosly cemented like sandstone while hard Arkansas stone is tightly cemented like quartzite (the hard ones can be black or translucent. Many are black because the higher pressure and temperatures required to form them can also dissolve manganese from the surrounding rock and reprecipitate it as black manganese dioxide grains in the silica cementing the shells together).
They work fine on old fashioned carbon steel, but are a trifle slow and not so effective on high tech steels or harder alloys (mohs hardness is about 5.5 or about that of window glass, and the shells are rounded rather than sharp and angular). The hard stones actually burnish more than cut, but can give a nice sharp polished edge if you're patient enough... since they are so tightly bonded they can produce an edge equivalent to the edge from a 5,000 grit waterstone though the actual particle size is closer to a 2,000 grit stone.
If you are patient, like oil, and are sharpening regular knives, Arkansas stones are fine.
If you like dry or water and have more wear resistant modern steels, the Spyderco ceramic stones will be faster but produce a similar finish to the Arkansas stones. The Spyderco super/ultra-fine ceramic stone is also about 2,000 grit abrasive (probably a zirconium-aluminum oxide with a moh's hardness of about 8.5-9) but the grains are also rounded and very tightly bonded so can burnish up a finish close to a 5,000 grit waterstone. Will clog up more if you use it dry though.
If you don't mind water, have exotic steels, want faster cutting speed and even finer finishes, go with waterstones or something like 3M micro-finishing film.
10,000 to 16,000 grit waterstones aren't too expensive and are generally aluminum oxide (hardness = 9, rounded, but sharp edged grains so cuts faster than ceramic or Arkansas and also leaves a smoother finish than silicon carbide), while 1 micron silicon carbide finishing film is equivalent to about 14,000 grit stone. And though silicon carbide (hardness = 9.5, sharp blade-like grains), is more fragile than aluminum oxide (initially cuts faster but dulls more quickly in high tensile metals like steel), it is harder than any common abrasive except boron carbide, nitride and diamond.
You can also get 1/2 micron (about 30,000 grit) chrome oxide finishing film and 1/3rd micron aluminum oxide finishing film, which is much finer than the green buffing bars people use on strops.
They work fine on old fashioned carbon steel, but are a trifle slow and not so effective on high tech steels or harder alloys (mohs hardness is about 5.5 or about that of window glass, and the shells are rounded rather than sharp and angular). The hard stones actually burnish more than cut, but can give a nice sharp polished edge if you're patient enough... since they are so tightly bonded they can produce an edge equivalent to the edge from a 5,000 grit waterstone though the actual particle size is closer to a 2,000 grit stone.
If you are patient, like oil, and are sharpening regular knives, Arkansas stones are fine.
If you like dry or water and have more wear resistant modern steels, the Spyderco ceramic stones will be faster but produce a similar finish to the Arkansas stones. The Spyderco super/ultra-fine ceramic stone is also about 2,000 grit abrasive (probably a zirconium-aluminum oxide with a moh's hardness of about 8.5-9) but the grains are also rounded and very tightly bonded so can burnish up a finish close to a 5,000 grit waterstone. Will clog up more if you use it dry though.
If you don't mind water, have exotic steels, want faster cutting speed and even finer finishes, go with waterstones or something like 3M micro-finishing film.
10,000 to 16,000 grit waterstones aren't too expensive and are generally aluminum oxide (hardness = 9, rounded, but sharp edged grains so cuts faster than ceramic or Arkansas and also leaves a smoother finish than silicon carbide), while 1 micron silicon carbide finishing film is equivalent to about 14,000 grit stone. And though silicon carbide (hardness = 9.5, sharp blade-like grains), is more fragile than aluminum oxide (initially cuts faster but dulls more quickly in high tensile metals like steel), it is harder than any common abrasive except boron carbide, nitride and diamond.
You can also get 1/2 micron (about 30,000 grit) chrome oxide finishing film and 1/3rd micron aluminum oxide finishing film, which is much finer than the green buffing bars people use on strops.
yuzuha summed it up well.
Arkansas stone is no wonder stone, though it works fine for shapening.
It is good for routine maintenance and finish touch, but it requires long work for reprofiling as it cuts slow.
I recently had hard time reprofiling my D2 knife with arkansas stones. It took hours. I'm considering to get some aluminium oxide benchstones for reprofiling. I've used one at a shop last night and it was much faster and easier at reprofiling.
On the positive side, Arkansas stone works smoother (less toothy) and it suits me. I'm most comfortable with arkansas stones, and that's why I keep using it though I know it is less efficient for some tasks. It just works fine for routine sharpening and touch ups.
Arkansas stone is no wonder stone, though it works fine for shapening.
It is good for routine maintenance and finish touch, but it requires long work for reprofiling as it cuts slow.
I recently had hard time reprofiling my D2 knife with arkansas stones. It took hours. I'm considering to get some aluminium oxide benchstones for reprofiling. I've used one at a shop last night and it was much faster and easier at reprofiling.
On the positive side, Arkansas stone works smoother (less toothy) and it suits me. I'm most comfortable with arkansas stones, and that's why I keep using it though I know it is less efficient for some tasks. It just works fine for routine sharpening and touch ups.
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I have no doubt an edge pro will make a very sharp edge if done right. My problem with it and other angle holding systems is that I find them very mechanical and not enjoyable to me.
Learn to use bench stones freehand and you will find sharpening to be relaxing, maybe meditative, and even enjoyable. I also do not agree with the opinion of some that it is difficult. It does take some practice, but I do not think it is all that difficult given sufficient practice.
Learn to use bench stones freehand and you will find sharpening to be relaxing, maybe meditative, and even enjoyable. I also do not agree with the opinion of some that it is difficult. It does take some practice, but I do not think it is all that difficult given sufficient practice.
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I can attest to that. I haven't yet tackled any of my knives on my waterstones, but I've sharpened plenty of wood chisels and hand-plane blades. I'm here to tell ya: There are few things more satisfying in life than finally learning to "feel the edge" on the stones and be able to get a good edge on a tool quickly, even from a badly-damaged edge.
The first time I knew I'd gotten a chisel edge truly sharp was when I held it up to take a look from the back side after stropping to see if I'd knocked the wire edge off. There was a bit of film on the blade from the charging compound and, unthinking, I wiped my finger across it. Unfortunately, I wiped my finger straight across, rather than with a motion away from the edge. Oops! I didn't even really feel it bite me, so much as sense it. Finer than a paper cut. So fine a cut I wasn't even sure I'd cut myself until I pulled on the skin and it finally started bleeding.
Well, that's the thing, isn't it? It is difficult, or can be, until you get the hang of it.
Best to start with cheap knives, IMO. That's what I did with my wood-working tools: Bought a cheap hand-plane blade and a set of cheap chisels and practiced on them. That's what I plan to do when I decide to finally try my hand at sharpening knives on my waterstones.
Btw: One thing about waterstones is keeping them flat. Very, very important. I sacrificed a DMT diamond stone for that purpose.
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I use DMT diamond for about 95% of my sharpening. I use an ancient, 12" black Arkansas hone which I inherited from a cabinet maker great-uncle to finish the edge on high carbon knives and tools. For some reason this seems to impart a grabbier fine edge than even the DMT ultrafine hone.
I have a Norton combination 220/1000 water stone,an Arkansas soft,hard,and surgical black.I also have the DMT coarse,fine and extra fine diamond stones(diamonds are stones you know).I used to use the water stone and then finish on the arkansas hard and surgical black,but know I use the DMT stones and finish on the black works well for me.Love the smell of that black stone.
I learned to sharpen knives freehand on medium India and hard Arkansas slip stones. Thats mostly what I have used throughout the years since I can get a good edge with them (can usually get it to push cut newsprint) and theyre small and portable. I have however experimented with many of the sharpening systems and other stones too.
With Arkansas the quality varies ALOT, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Norton is the only manufacturer I know of that produces consistently high quality stones, I have gotten high quality stones from other places, but its somewhat hit or miss. Gennerally, as far as I'm aware, soft and medum arkansas are not used much, instead use medium and / or fine India
You do seem to know quite allot about this subject, and have explained things very clearly. all I have is my experience, for what its worth I am able to get a finer edge with a quality hard Arkansas stone than with my 8000 grit waterstone. Yes, I know how to use both stones properly (I flatten the waterstone regularly and use a nagura stone to start the slurry), my sharpening is pretty consistent. I would say I get about a 10% sharper edge with the Arkansas, although the waterstone does leave a better polish. I am push cutting for sharpness testing so slicing aggression shouldnt come into play. I have knives made of A2, M2, Hitatchi white (at 63RC) D2, S30V, and I've never had a problem with speed of sharpening or attainable edge with these steels (takes me about 5 minutes for the final polish on the Arkansas if I have to use the India first). Also to be fair in a comparison of waterstones to Arkansas (or western sharpening) as I'm sure most of you know, generally the tool is stropped after the Arkansas, putting a fine polish on it.
I couldent agree more with this statment. most lower cost sharpening systems put an infirior edge on the knife (in the lansky's case, a thinned out point and a varying sharpening angle throuought). If you learn on them, even the quality ones like the edge pro, you will not learn how to properly sharpen a knife (or any tool) freehand, and it may become a crutch. If you find yourself in a situation where you must sharpen freehand, you may not be able to. also most systems are too bulky to carry into the fieald, I carry my stones wherever I go and thus, my knives are ALWAYS sharp.
yes, this is definatly not the work that arkansas stones are ment for. when re-profiling the edge, I like waterstones the best, they seem to cut the fastest. but on the other hand I cant carry a waterstone soaking and ready to use with me at all times
In answer to sharpness, I can catch hair above the skin and pop it off with the edge I get from a translucent Arkansas. Will you have a razor edge if you use them? That depends entirely on you and somwhat on what you are sharpening. If you have no sharpening experience, depending on your speed at learning this type of skill, it will probably take a while to get a shaving sharp edge freehand. I wouldnt say its "difficult" to learn, it just takes practice, and once you master it you will always have it. Also you will be carrying on a skill that seems to be dwindling in modern times.
If, when you say "use the black and translucent stones" you mean together or in a series, this is not necessary, either one will do. The black is supposed to be finer, I have never used one. As far as the best for sharpening? Thats pretty subjective, there are allot of variables. For me they are the best to have handy and ready when I need them, and they produce as good an edge as any other method I've tried. Also they require little maintenance and will last more than your lifetime if properly cared for. FYI, I use Arkansas bench stones as well as slipstones (for the slipstones I hold the stone in one hand and the knife in the other) I can get the same edge on either stone, but if your starting out I would recommend going bench stone, its easier to learn on. I just like the slipstones for portability. heres a link for good Arkansas stones, some sharpening tips, and good strops: http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...en=CTGY&Store_Code=toolshop&Category_Code=THO
With Arkansas the quality varies ALOT, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Norton is the only manufacturer I know of that produces consistently high quality stones, I have gotten high quality stones from other places, but its somewhat hit or miss. Gennerally, as far as I'm aware, soft and medum arkansas are not used much, instead use medium and / or fine India
You do seem to know quite allot about this subject, and have explained things very clearly. all I have is my experience, for what its worth I am able to get a finer edge with a quality hard Arkansas stone than with my 8000 grit waterstone. Yes, I know how to use both stones properly (I flatten the waterstone regularly and use a nagura stone to start the slurry), my sharpening is pretty consistent. I would say I get about a 10% sharper edge with the Arkansas, although the waterstone does leave a better polish. I am push cutting for sharpness testing so slicing aggression shouldnt come into play. I have knives made of A2, M2, Hitatchi white (at 63RC) D2, S30V, and I've never had a problem with speed of sharpening or attainable edge with these steels (takes me about 5 minutes for the final polish on the Arkansas if I have to use the India first). Also to be fair in a comparison of waterstones to Arkansas (or western sharpening) as I'm sure most of you know, generally the tool is stropped after the Arkansas, putting a fine polish on it.
I couldent agree more with this statment. most lower cost sharpening systems put an infirior edge on the knife (in the lansky's case, a thinned out point and a varying sharpening angle throuought). If you learn on them, even the quality ones like the edge pro, you will not learn how to properly sharpen a knife (or any tool) freehand, and it may become a crutch. If you find yourself in a situation where you must sharpen freehand, you may not be able to. also most systems are too bulky to carry into the fieald, I carry my stones wherever I go and thus, my knives are ALWAYS sharp.
yes, this is definatly not the work that arkansas stones are ment for. when re-profiling the edge, I like waterstones the best, they seem to cut the fastest. but on the other hand I cant carry a waterstone soaking and ready to use with me at all times
In answer to sharpness, I can catch hair above the skin and pop it off with the edge I get from a translucent Arkansas. Will you have a razor edge if you use them? That depends entirely on you and somwhat on what you are sharpening. If you have no sharpening experience, depending on your speed at learning this type of skill, it will probably take a while to get a shaving sharp edge freehand. I wouldnt say its "difficult" to learn, it just takes practice, and once you master it you will always have it. Also you will be carrying on a skill that seems to be dwindling in modern times.
If, when you say "use the black and translucent stones" you mean together or in a series, this is not necessary, either one will do. The black is supposed to be finer, I have never used one. As far as the best for sharpening? Thats pretty subjective, there are allot of variables. For me they are the best to have handy and ready when I need them, and they produce as good an edge as any other method I've tried. Also they require little maintenance and will last more than your lifetime if properly cared for. FYI, I use Arkansas bench stones as well as slipstones (for the slipstones I hold the stone in one hand and the knife in the other) I can get the same edge on either stone, but if your starting out I would recommend going bench stone, its easier to learn on. I just like the slipstones for portability. heres a link for good Arkansas stones, some sharpening tips, and good strops: http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...en=CTGY&Store_Code=toolshop&Category_Code=THO
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You find it necessary to regularly flatten an 8000 waterstone? Wow, you must do a lot of sharpening.
I spent hour upon hour upon hour on my stones, learning to sharpen and (successfully) sharpening wood-working tool edges, and never once found it necessary to flatten my 8000 grit waterstone. I'm sure someday it'll be necessary, but still... "regularly," eh?Cliff Stamp
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Stropped on what media? So the comparison is between the buffing compound and the 8000 grit waterstone?
-Cliff
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Matt,
I use both a hard white as well as a translucent in succession, and found I get the best polish with mineral oil. I've tried water and dry and just don't like the polished finish nor the stone loading ... with oil I can literally wipe the stone clean of the metal particles with a shop rag.
I use both a hard white as well as a translucent in succession, and found I get the best polish with mineral oil. I've tried water and dry and just don't like the polished finish nor the stone loading ... with oil I can literally wipe the stone clean of the metal particles with a shop rag.
Im sorry as usual for the extra long post, I dont want to take up the whole conversation here, I try to make them shorter but it never works (especially when Ive had caffeine
).
Cliff, that edge is with straight Arkansas, no stropping, I dont own a strop (I have been meaning to get one though). Sorry for the confusion, I should have worded it differently. I was just stating that since Arkansas is usually NOT meant for final finishing in a western system, it shouldnt really be compared to an 8000 grit water stone that IS meant for final polishing, but Im doing it here anyways. It seems like it is surprising to you all that I get these results with just a hard Arkansas stone (based on your responses so far, or it could be that youre surprised Im NOT getting BETTER results with my waterstones). Yes, a push cut newspaper edge on a Norton Translucent Arkansas and nothing else, its not really that hard to do, and Im sure there are many people besides me that can. I just tested one today to make sure, yep, it can cut newspaper with just a push, no slice whatsoever (on most of the edge, some spots will tear a little) Its not quite as sharp as an out of the box single edge razorblade, doesnt just part the paper effortlessly, but there isnt any tearing on 95% of the edge, clean cut from the corner down, with maby a tiny fold on the top befour it starts to cut . Thats with my nimravous with an M-2 blade at 60? Rockwell, it has a convex sharpening bevel (just on the edge, not re-profiled) with maybe a 25 degree micro bevel (just guessing here, not that good with angles) I think I could probably get a more consistent / sharper edge if I was really focusing, starting with a fresh blade instead of one Ive hand sharpened in the field many times.
while there are lots of variables, a couple things come to mind, first is inferior stones (my waterstones could be inferior too). I've come across allot of poor quality Arkansas, and they really dont produce verry good results. Like I said, in my experience only Nortons are really consistent. also the more you use the stone it seems the finer it gets, an out of the box stone never seems to produce an edge like my 10 year old one that I've been using at least several times monthly, usually a couple times weekly, all those years. Ill try sharpening on one of my dads new stones and see what I get. Also technique comes to mind;
to answer your question Mat321, I use them dry. I find that it produces a noticeably finer edge than with oil, although they have to be scrubbed regularly (scotch bright and Ajax works well, but my older one doesnt clog that much anymore) and I dont think Ive ever used mineral oil, Ill have to try it. Also as Im assuming many of you know already, light starting pressure gradually moving to just the weight of the blade on the stone at the end of your sharpening (like your stropping) is what you should be doing, pressure wise, to finish properly on an Arkansas (I do this too on the med India at the end to make the Arkansas go quicker, I get a decent shaving edge (not hair popping) with a worn Med India in this way)
To answer your question EDCeeker, yes I sharpen ALOT. Some around me call it a bit of a disorder. BTW I really do admire woodworkers with there passion for the edge and for its care and uses, if it wasnt for woodworkers the art of sharpening would be closer to being lost forever. Its also because of you guys and your demand for quality that so many great sharpening products are even available at all! If I see a dull knife almost anywhere, Im usually compelled to sharpen it. Im the same way with fixing things, I just cant seem to leave broken things alone. I also flatten my waterstones probably more than necessary for the same reason, a little OCD (come on, its not like I flatten them and then have to flatten them again right afterwards) dead flat in my opinion is the only way to use waterstones, I love the Shapton system, got to get it sometime (when ive got $1000 laying around
), there as obsessive as I am about sharpening. I am always looking for a sharpening challenge.
BELOW ARE SOME ENTERTAINING STORIES OF SHARPENING COMPULSION, READ IF YOU WANT, PRETTY UN-RELATED TO THE POST THOUGH.
When I worked at a farm near Stillwater, MN, I would sharpen there lettuce knives and kitchen knives to shaving sharp, and there diamond and other hoes, wheel hoes, and other implements to a finish probably far beyond what was needed, and yes sometimes I would get them shaving sharp if I could.
My folks have a small 5hp chipper for branches, and as I was working over there one day, noticed that it was not chipping as well as it had when new. So several of my OCD tendencies kicked in all at once, I took it partially apart to get to the blade, a simple piece of tool steel with a single, maybe 40 degree, bevel on it (similar to my old Timberline Specwar) It was covered with chips and such as would be expected, hardly a discernable edge. So I took it into the basement, and starting with a 220 grit waterstone I got the chips out / trued the edge and flattened the back, then took it through the series of waterstones from 600 to 8000, and yes, got a hair popping edge on that too (that s**t chipped FAST!! ) the next time I did it (yes, I said the next, and NOT the last time:thumbup: ) I bought silicone carbide abrasive to use on a Kanaban (mild steel plate) to get out the nicks and re-true the back (I guess my 220 wasent as flat as I had thought:grumpy: ) this worked better.
When I attended the Wilderness Awareness School in Washington State, I ended up sharpening some of their knives too, because most of them didnt know how. The more I see this in the tracker community the more appalled I am. I offered to teach anyone wanting to learn, but many of them didn't seem to want to put in the time necessary, these were people who would spend hours a day sitting in there secret spot and meditating (hey, Im not dissing it, but sharpening comes FIRST
) I even offered, for free, to organize and teach a class I thought up called Knife selection, care, use and sharpening for the tracker but they didnt end up having time in there curriculum for it. well really at that time I was in the process of leaving the school (still wanted to do the class though) and I think I was not on the best terms with some of the instructors because I kept bringing up (in class) how cult-like many aspects of the school were, and how many of there techniques relied on subtle social / peer pressure of the students to influence the individual into the group mindset. not to mention they were recruting for the Landmark Forum out of the school.
). Cliff, that edge is with straight Arkansas, no stropping, I dont own a strop (I have been meaning to get one though). Sorry for the confusion, I should have worded it differently. I was just stating that since Arkansas is usually NOT meant for final finishing in a western system, it shouldnt really be compared to an 8000 grit water stone that IS meant for final polishing, but Im doing it here anyways. It seems like it is surprising to you all that I get these results with just a hard Arkansas stone (based on your responses so far, or it could be that youre surprised Im NOT getting BETTER results with my waterstones). Yes, a push cut newspaper edge on a Norton Translucent Arkansas and nothing else, its not really that hard to do, and Im sure there are many people besides me that can. I just tested one today to make sure, yep, it can cut newspaper with just a push, no slice whatsoever (on most of the edge, some spots will tear a little) Its not quite as sharp as an out of the box single edge razorblade, doesnt just part the paper effortlessly, but there isnt any tearing on 95% of the edge, clean cut from the corner down, with maby a tiny fold on the top befour it starts to cut . Thats with my nimravous with an M-2 blade at 60? Rockwell, it has a convex sharpening bevel (just on the edge, not re-profiled) with maybe a 25 degree micro bevel (just guessing here, not that good with angles) I think I could probably get a more consistent / sharper edge if I was really focusing, starting with a fresh blade instead of one Ive hand sharpened in the field many times.
while there are lots of variables, a couple things come to mind, first is inferior stones (my waterstones could be inferior too). I've come across allot of poor quality Arkansas, and they really dont produce verry good results. Like I said, in my experience only Nortons are really consistent. also the more you use the stone it seems the finer it gets, an out of the box stone never seems to produce an edge like my 10 year old one that I've been using at least several times monthly, usually a couple times weekly, all those years. Ill try sharpening on one of my dads new stones and see what I get. Also technique comes to mind;
to answer your question Mat321, I use them dry. I find that it produces a noticeably finer edge than with oil, although they have to be scrubbed regularly (scotch bright and Ajax works well, but my older one doesnt clog that much anymore) and I dont think Ive ever used mineral oil, Ill have to try it. Also as Im assuming many of you know already, light starting pressure gradually moving to just the weight of the blade on the stone at the end of your sharpening (like your stropping) is what you should be doing, pressure wise, to finish properly on an Arkansas (I do this too on the med India at the end to make the Arkansas go quicker, I get a decent shaving edge (not hair popping) with a worn Med India in this way)
To answer your question EDCeeker, yes I sharpen ALOT. Some around me call it a bit of a disorder. BTW I really do admire woodworkers with there passion for the edge and for its care and uses, if it wasnt for woodworkers the art of sharpening would be closer to being lost forever. Its also because of you guys and your demand for quality that so many great sharpening products are even available at all! If I see a dull knife almost anywhere, Im usually compelled to sharpen it. Im the same way with fixing things, I just cant seem to leave broken things alone. I also flatten my waterstones probably more than necessary for the same reason, a little OCD (come on, its not like I flatten them and then have to flatten them again right afterwards) dead flat in my opinion is the only way to use waterstones, I love the Shapton system, got to get it sometime (when ive got $1000 laying around
), there as obsessive as I am about sharpening. I am always looking for a sharpening challenge. BELOW ARE SOME ENTERTAINING STORIES OF SHARPENING COMPULSION, READ IF YOU WANT, PRETTY UN-RELATED TO THE POST THOUGH.
When I worked at a farm near Stillwater, MN, I would sharpen there lettuce knives and kitchen knives to shaving sharp, and there diamond and other hoes, wheel hoes, and other implements to a finish probably far beyond what was needed, and yes sometimes I would get them shaving sharp if I could.
My folks have a small 5hp chipper for branches, and as I was working over there one day, noticed that it was not chipping as well as it had when new. So several of my OCD tendencies kicked in all at once, I took it partially apart to get to the blade, a simple piece of tool steel with a single, maybe 40 degree, bevel on it (similar to my old Timberline Specwar) It was covered with chips and such as would be expected, hardly a discernable edge. So I took it into the basement, and starting with a 220 grit waterstone I got the chips out / trued the edge and flattened the back, then took it through the series of waterstones from 600 to 8000, and yes, got a hair popping edge on that too (that s**t chipped FAST!!
) the next time I did it (yes, I said the next, and NOT the last time:thumbup: ) I bought silicone carbide abrasive to use on a Kanaban (mild steel plate) to get out the nicks and re-true the back (I guess my 220 wasent as flat as I had thought:grumpy: ) this worked better.When I attended the Wilderness Awareness School in Washington State, I ended up sharpening some of their knives too, because most of them didnt know how. The more I see this in the tracker community the more appalled I am. I offered to teach anyone wanting to learn, but many of them didn't seem to want to put in the time necessary, these were people who would spend hours a day sitting in there secret spot and meditating (hey, Im not dissing it, but sharpening comes FIRST
) I even offered, for free, to organize and teach a class I thought up called Knife selection, care, use and sharpening for the tracker but they didnt end up having time in there curriculum for it. well really at that time I was in the process of leaving the school (still wanted to do the class though) and I think I was not on the best terms with some of the instructors because I kept bringing up (in class) how cult-like many aspects of the school were, and how many of there techniques relied on subtle social / peer pressure of the students to influence the individual into the group mindset. not to mention they were recruting for the Landmark Forum out of the school.