As a hard user of knives, I worry about KAI's direction.

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o4tg

Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
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Please, hear me out before you call me an idiot.

When ZT was started, it wasn't a luxury brand. It was a hard use brand. They were advertised as tactical knives for people like military, police, and outdoorsmen. Knives like the 0300, 0200, and various others. I like them and my favorite folder of all time is the 0350.

Lately I've seen lots if designs I like. The Swerve, Thermite, RJ, and Freefall come to mind. I then see designs like the 0801 and 0454 and just kind of shake my head when I give thought to actually using a design like that. Engraved metallic scales burn you in the summer and freeze shock your skin in the winter. Just this guy's opinion, but I'd even go as far as to call the 0801 kind of flamboyant.

For years I've wanted a tan or OD green G10 0350. Instead they come out with engraved aluminum which is again, very unfriendly in the elements. Yet on that same token, every one and their brother has an orange G10 0350 on sale, because they simply aren't selling that good. Same for the red, purple, neon green, and other odd colors of their other US lines.

This is the part I'll get blasted for. Slow down on designing safe queens, and get us hard users some new folders that are US made. Maybe 1 out of 10 0454's will be used on something besides arm hair and paper, but I truly think you're overlooking your userbase that helped build the ZT line. Yeah, the Hinderer design is pretty neat, we get it. But how about some more stout US made liner locks loaded with G10 that could chop down a house if need be? Polished carbon fiber may be pretty and all, but I don't want to rely on something like that when I'm doing something where I absolutely need to maintain my grip. The same for slippery titanium.

I've used and abused a lot of designs. I've learned what designs are practical, and I've leanred you will never get the quality out of China that you will from the US. My worry is that so many new US designs are coming up short in practicality, and the Chinese designs are super practical but lack the quality and materials they should have.

Just my open letter as a long time customer. Please never rest on your laurels.
 
I get your point. Some folks would say my ZT's look like hell. The first day I had my 0550, the titanium got shot peened and finished off with a blast of alum. oxide. It also got a home made canvas micarta scale. The 0200 and 0350 came ready to rock, and got some tough love right away. I guess I'm more of a tool user than a collector, although some collectors would probably consider me just a tool.
 
Akcir said:
I get your point. Some folks would say my ZT's look like hell. The first day I had my 0550, the titanium got shot peened and finished off with a blast of alum. oxide. It also got a home made canvas micarta scale. The 0200 and 0350 came ready to rock, and got some tough love right away. I guess I'm more of a tool user than a collector, although some collectors would probably consider me just a tool.
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Lol, well put. That's a better way to put it. I'd like to see more US made knives to be used as tools rather than collector's items. The pre existing designs are pretty good and all, but I'd like some new users.
 
I enjoy mine for what they are although my hardest use has been gardening. Personally, I would love a 0801. Also, I'm ecstatic over the 0770, its gonna be a great EDC. I would like to see some of the classic models (0350 & 0200) in a variety of colors such as OD green, coyote brown or tan, etc. You get the idea but not this year, can't afford it with all the new stuff
 
I think KAI is producing some models that the collectors will enjoy, as well as those who choose to use them a little less harshly. I'm fine with that. I had a car in a parade/car show today. There were some beautiful cars that the owners spent a lot of time picking blades of grass out of the tire treads. Again, I'm fine with that. I happen to be the guy that throws candy to the kids, does big burnouts for them, then lets them sit in my car at the show. My philosophy is to buy what you like, and use it the way you like. I do understand the OP's concern with introducing models that may, or may not fit the original product niche. I don't think that ZT will forget it's roots.
 
There are some models for collectors but for a company its great PR. Most of the models might not be the hard use of say the 300 series but I think the new models will hold their own
 
I am in agreement with the OP .
While I don't have a problem with collectibles I would love to see some edc sized knives with say CPM-M4 or 3v
 
I don't think ZT is lacking when it comes to overbuilt models. The 0560, 0550, and 0566 are just as tough and ready for hard use as the 0300 you mentioned. Yeah, they haven't announced any super-overbuilt heavy duty folders this year, (other than the 0566,) but I wouldn't be surprised if they did so in 2014.
And besides, something to keep in mind is that even the newer, fancier knives-though they may be less practical due to their slick or full Ti handles- are still no weaker than the older ones. They're more elegant, but just as tough.
 
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If you don't like them, don't buy them. If you want to watch black G10, titanium liners and good blade steel get recycled over and over and over and over, get an Emerson.

How can you begrudge a company for wanting to stretch it's legs a little bit? It's not like the aren't making the heavy duty stuff anymore, they are just filling out their lineup.

Which do you think is a better business decision:

A) Make just heavy, hard use, overbuilt knives and sell them to people who like those features

B) Make just slim, light, pretty knives and sell them to people who like those features

C) Make both and sell them to both sets of customers

That's a pretty easy decision....
 
Oh, and if you want to hear it straight from the horses mouth, watch Sticky's roundtable.

They actually talk about how they started as a primarily hard use over built maker.
 
Maybe it is the difference between users and collectors. IMO, I don't know how a knife company can do better than the 200, 350, and 550 series. I suppose a manufactor needs to come out with new models. But why are most of the new models the same size as earlier offerings?
 
I'm not going through the hassle of finding the quote, but the powers that be had stated that they were leaning toward a collectors market (high end materials with high (zero...) tolerances in production). End game, they make knives for $, and there's a lot of money to be had across the board...from blem 0350's to 777's. They're on here, and they're listening. Personally I'm thankful for all that they do. Also, I will add that I agree with OP! I would love to see some more hard use folders! For now I'll work on what I already can't afford, lol.
 
o4tg said:
Lol, well put. That's a better way to put it. I'd like to see more US made knives to be used as tools rather than collector's items. The pre existing designs are pretty good and all, but I'd like some new users.
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That's your own fault, and your own problem. It's essentially the "McDonald's made me fat" argument. I've used plenty of ZT knives, and their high end LEs perform extremely well. They're strong, and can take as much of a beating as you can throw at it. If you're not using your ZTs, then that's all on you. It's not their fault.

You're asking them to make more boring knives that you're not afraid to use. I hope they never do that. They're making exciting products, and I'm willing to bet you haven't actually held the Rexfords, or the 0600. Those pieces are solid, and aren't going to buckle under any hard use.

Moreover, I have no idea why you'd call the 0801 flamboyant, but it gives me an idea of where you're coming from and it's a position I can't hold in any sort of high esteem.
 
Hey, there's nothing wrong with asking for some more less expensive, less "luxurious" knives. There's room for both styles in ZT's lineup.
And, this is just a guess, but I think he's referring to the 0801CF rather than the plain, Ti handled 0801. And the 0801CF is pretty flashy, especially when compared to the 02 and 03xx series.
 
sticktodrum said:
That's your own fault, and your own problem. It's essentially the "McDonald's made me fat" argument. I've used plenty of ZT knives, and their high end LEs perform extremely well. They're strong, and can take as much of a beating as you can throw at it. If you're not using your ZTs, then that's all on you. It's not their fault.

You're asking them to make more boring knives that you're not afraid to use. I hope they never do that. They're making exciting products, and I'm willing to bet you haven't actually held the Rexfords, or the 0600. Those pieces are solid, and aren't going to buckle under any hard use.

Moreover, I have no idea why you'd call the 0801 flamboyant, but it gives me an idea of where you're coming from and it's a position I can't hold in any sort of high esteem.
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You seem a little emotionally involved, so I'll tread lightly.

Where did I say I don't use mine? I use the hell out of my 0350, because it's user friendly. I feel much more confident gripping G10 doing hard cutting than polished carbon fiber or titanium. When it comes down to it, you don't use high luster finishes for function.

I'm a massive KAI fan, so please get off the holier than thou wagon as I wouldn't have made this topic if I didn't like them.

My point is this. Please don't forget about those of us who use knives as tools. I don't see why that's offending anyone.
 
Scurvy092 said:
If you don't like them, don't buy them. If you want to watch black G10, titanium liners and good blade steel get recycled over and over and over and over, get an Emerson.

How can you begrudge a company for wanting to stretch it's legs a little bit? It's not like the aren't making the heavy duty stuff anymore, they are just filling out their lineup.

Which do you think is a better business decision:

A) Make just heavy, hard use, overbuilt knives and sell them to people who like those features

B) Make just slim, light, pretty knives and sell them to people who like those features

C) Make both and sell them to both sets of customers

That's a pretty easy decision....
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That's my point though. Aside from numerous Hinderer designs, they really haven't came out with msny recent "tool" knives, but it seems like they have a new "collector" knife every month lately. I'm not saying forget the collectors, I'm saying please throw a bone to the heavy users.

Why would I get an Emerson when the 0350 is a superior design in my eyes? Materials are only part of the equation in a knife. Please don't take that offensively if that counters your purchase decisions. That's not agreeing to your insulting of Emerson either. They're good blades, I just prefer ZT's.
 
Hrm.. well I think many folding knives that can be used [loosely here] "build a house" type of idea, is as mentioned a bit on the abusive side [depending on what, but the general idea that floats to mind does lean towards that end of the spectrum]. But given that, what are you doing with your knives if you don't mind me asking? Are these tasks that any of the newer knives offered not be able to accomplish? What do you expect them to accomplish? I understand the price point on some of these knives are too high to just buy to try type of mind set. But there are a lot of user experiences out there and you may be able to piece together what these knives really are capable of. I do feel your wording on such kind of leads to people feeling "emotion" when responding, especially when stating such things as : scales would burn you in the summer, and freeze you in the winter [not entirely sure what you mean by engraved metallic scales]?
" Engraved metallic scales burn you in the summer and freeze shock your skin in the winter. "
 
I have no way of knowing, but the 0801 and 0454 appear just as tough as the "old" models. They just have sleeker lines. I know, that I won't have any qualms about using my 0801 hard, once i receive it.
 
o4tg said:
Where did I say I don't use mine? I use the hell out of my 0350, because it's user friendly. I feel much more confident gripping G10 doing hard cutting than polished carbon fiber or titanium. When it comes down to it, you don't use high luster finishes for function.
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In your OP I kind of got the same idea as Sticky, that you wouldn't use the LE ZT's. I was going to ask, how is the 0600 not hard use?

I also would hate to see ZT start making a lot of small, sissy, 4 oz girly knives. I too want them to be true to what ZT started as. But I am happy to see some class added too. Adding CF to a knife is a good thing, I like how it feels on the hand. You are worrying about something you shouldnt worry about.
 
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