Assault rifle recommendation...

[JohnTheTexican]

I disagree with about half of what has been said here about AR15's. A piston system is an expensive upgrade that caused the carrier to tilt and chew at the front of the buffer tube. The AR platform with direct gas is very reliable as is, as long as you are getting quality. (not DPMS, CMMG, or at this time Bushmaster)

You could go to AR15.com but the culture there is rude and lots of 15 year old repeating hear-say. Takes a while to sort out the smart guys, but if you have that patience there are some good guys there. M4carbine.net is a more technically accurate forum. BS is not tolerated, so it has fewer member, but a much higher % of guys who actually know what they are talking about.

you could contact Bravo Company or Adco firearms. both of those companies only sell decent stuff. The Adco guys are kinda rude and impatient but that is because they are busy and get a lot of tire kickers calling. A smaller more friendly dealer is nvbgear.com he is polite and only sells good stuff, and does have good prices. I buy from all the above, more with NVB then the others last couple years.

And, yes you should be buying this stuff right now! there was a huge rush after the election, that has slowed and there is a glut on the market, because folks are more worried about their job then their guns.

Just for the record, I'm not 15 years old, and I actually own and have used everything I mentioned in my first post, except the Barbie, some of the brands of AKs mentioned, the non-Armalite AR10-type rifles, and Daniel Defense (I have some of their Back Up Iron Sights, but that's all).

I should have also mentioned LMT as a brand to consider. I have a couple of their uppers and a couple of their lowers, and they're all top-notch.

 

[bmilla35]

Continued appreciation guys...

for the record, by brother isn't paying for the gun. My father is, and he has wanted one for a while anyways. Well, so have I. I guess the only reason I mentioned my brother is he is the one who convinced me to start a thread here.

 

[RickT57]

Perhaps someone can explain to me about the AR-15 and clones. Why would you buy a gun that needed a forward bolt assist added on? The design is old and flawed. Has been from the very start. Even Delta uses the HK 416

 

[FriskyDingo]

I've got a Sig 556, probably the best .223 carbine you can buy under 1500$. Just make sure you get one of the older ones, the "Classic" models pretty much suck, unless of course you put the older Swiss furniture on them, then they rock.

I'm about ready to pick up a Kel Tec RFB, for a bullpup the main advantage is the fact that it's a .308. It's compactness means that it'll for sure land on the next ban list, but it takes FAL mags so once you have the gun and a reasonable stock of spare parts, you don't have to worry about the company going out of business or not supporting the gun anymore.

AR's are over sold IMO, there's nothing wrong with them I just could never warm up to them. For the money I'd rather have a Saiga or an Arsenal AK, preferably in 5.45x.39 because of ammo costs and lethality. Folding stock AK's are really nice, people don't give them enough credit... there's always the much touted "AK's aren't accurate" but the last time I took my Saiga .223 to the range it shot better than my friend's Bushmaster AR. The problem is the gun is going to be much more accurate than you are, so it doesn't really matter what the accuracy is benchrested at 300 yards, because quite frankly that's unrealistic.

 

[JohnTheTexican]

Perhaps someone can explain to me about the AR-15 and clones. Why would you buy a gun that needed a forward bolt assist added on? The design is old and flawed. Has been from the very start. Even Delta uses the HK 416

Geez. Even an AK-47 has a forward assist of sorts. It's that thing that you pull the bolt back with. The difference is that an AR's charging handle isn't permanently affixed to the bolt, so you can't use the thing you pull the bolt back with to push it closed, if it fails to close on its own.

And the reason the forward assist was added on was because Stoner didn't think it was necessary when he designed the rifle, but the Army wanted it anyway. They figured that any rifle can get dirty, and there ought to be a way to push the bolt into battery if the cartridge desn't seat properly.

And an HK 416 has the same foreward assist as an AR (probably because it's basically just an AR with a short-stroke piston instead of the direct imnpingement gas system). There may be a lot of things to criticize an AR for, but the forward assist seems like a pretty silly one to me.

 

[ROCK6]

Perhaps someone can explain to me about the AR-15 and clones. Why would you buy a gun that needed a forward bolt assist added on? The design is old and flawed. Has been from the very start. Even Delta uses the HK 416

I personally think the forward bolt assist is excess weight. As to the "flawed" design...well, there is some merit, but the system has worked well over the past few decades pretty well. I own other designs, but the AR is pretty simple despite the gas-tube issue. It's worked for me in both Iraq and Afghanistan. For a civilian carbine, it's more than enough and will work if fed properly and cared for. I did get the chance to play with Ruger's SR-556 and it's a pretty decent rifle as an option for a gas-piston type AR.

Here's my take on gas piston carbines. Sure they are more "reliable" but your replacing a simple tube with moving parts. That's only theoretical because I own a few FAL's and the system (single/long-stroke piston) works quite well. My biggest issue is the weight. We all bash those that add 3-4 pounds of "accessories" on a .223 carbine; well most piston AR's are 1-2 pounds heavier on average to a "naked" AR carbine. For me, a .223 caliber carbine is a short range (sub 300 meters), lightweight and fast-to-maneuver rifle. Lightweight is key. Even the sock weight of a 16" HK 416 carbine starts at almost 8.5 pounds. Once you get into the 8 pound weight (without accessories), you need to re-evaluate your requirements. Just my opinion, but despite some of the AR's shortcomings, it's simple, works, can be configured into a lightweight carbine and is more than adequate for civilian "social" engagements. Part of the issue is training; as long as you decide on a quality/reliable rifle, training can overcome most problems (weight, caliber, etc.). If you do plan to get a gas-piston carbine, I would strongly recommend getting one that has been built from the ground up to work as such (Sig 556, Robinson Arms XCR and I think the Ruger SR556 was built as a gas-piston from the ground up...).

ROCK6

 

[Sid Post]

Perhaps someone can explain to me about the AR-15 and clones. Why would you buy a gun that needed a forward bolt assist added on? The design is old and flawed. Has been from the very start. Even Delta uses the HK 416

AR-15/M-16's have been in use for decades. Think about a car you would buy during the Vietnam war versus today. Today we get fuel injection, disc brakes, anti-lock brakes, vehicle stability control, etc.

Today, you get an AR-15 that has a lot of improvements added over time like an M4 ramped barrel which works better with modern ammunition, free float rails, etc.

Buy a factory complete packaged rifle like a Daniel Defense or similar high quality rifle and you will save money in the long run and have a rifle that will serve you well for decades.

 

[Sid Post]

Gas piston AR-15's are over rated for most civilian users.

If you are not shooting with a suppressor, stick with a traditional direct impingement rifle. Properly maintained, you can shoot it until your wallet is empty. Really, how often do you shoot in excess of 500 rounds in one range session?

The military uses some piston driven M-16's for different reasons (ones most of us will never see).

Me, I'll stick with my factory Colt M-16 ... it works, works very well. Someday if I want to torture test a suppressor, I might run a piston driven upper some day. For gas in the face with a suppressor, I'll just run a gas buster charging handle and spend the money saved on more ammo or a new suppressor.

 

[MutedRaccoon]

I'll just run a gas buster charging handle and spend the money saved on more ammo or a new suppressor.

Skip the gas buster...seriously.

I've broken several now, I still will recommend them to people who will "easy use" their rifle...but anyone who runs it hard I tell them to go with a BCM charging handle and if needed a bit of gasket paste to make it a gas buster, also I believe BCM is making a gas buster version.

Oh and on the EO Tech thing...Try an Aimpoint and an EOtech and decide what YOU like, personally I hate EOtech sights due to one reason...they have this pisspoor autoshutoff (at least in the time when I used them) and the last thing anyone wanted was to go to take a shot and not have your optics working.

Granted you won't ever have that issue if its a range gun, my uses were different then yours. Bottomline is try them both out and decide what you like...but first focus on deciding on a rifle before going into optics.

:EDIT:

You can also purchase uppers without forward assists if it makes that big of an issue to you. Me personally? I like having it, chances are you won't use it but its nice to know that if the scenario comes up you have that feature that you can use.

 

[Mr. Sogetsu]

First off please refrain from the term "assault rifle". It is a vulgarism of military rifle borrowed from the Nazis. ARs are being more generally accepted and we don't need to label it as an "assault rifle" when they serve many other purposes other than "assaulting".

If going AR(and want 5.56 or .223), get one chambered in 5.56 NATO. You can use surplus ammo for practice.

AR: I would also suggest M4 feed ramps(relief cuts for easy chambering).

Take it easy on the gear and figure out the weak points in you and the rifle(by practicing) then get crazy with the gear if you want to.

Other makers of Semiauto hi-capacity rifles besides AR based: Steyr, Benelli, Robarms, MSAR, Sig, FAL, AK, HK, Ruger, CZ, Kel Tec, and others.

 

[bmilla35]

You guys continue to amaze!

I think i'm going to try and shoot my friend's cousins assault rifle first...and see what I like.

But cosmetically (and to be honest, if you ask me to back this up I probably don't have anything) I like the Daniel's Defense.

 

[SIFU1A]

DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS MAN!!!!
You want your AR properly decked out.
Like this:

though ya certainly dont need all that optics and a lite arent a bad thing, 4 rail HG either, maybe a pistol grip, thats it though, unless ya are in the army and have a laser renge finder/IR unit/etc.

i prefer the std gas system on an AR myself, i like to keep the innards of mine mil-spec.

as far as AR vs AK, they are both good, just depnds on what ya like, if i could only have 1 it would be a hard choice for me, and might change daily lol. theres a reason why the AR and AK are the std by which all the others are judged.

 

[TexAg10]

AR stands for armalite rifle, assault rifles are by definiton capable of burst or automatic fire and there are heavy restrictions and high costs associated with owning one.

As for what brand to get, what do you want to do with the rifle? just shoot at the range, use it for defense and firearms training, varmint hunting? M4carbine.net is a very good resource, I would recommend taking a look over there for much better info.

Rickt57- Here's a little tidbit about the reliability of a "flawed design" from this article:

Filthy #14 is the most used, and has (as 12-24-09) 28905 rounds down range. The barrel is original. It has never had a brush put through it. -At 16,400 rounds bolt lug cracked. Replaced the bolt carrier group

-At approximately 26,000 rounds fired a 5 shot 50m group that went into 0.5". This might not be that tight at 100 meters.

-At 26,450 rds had 3 failures to extract. Replaced BCG and cleaned gun for the first time

We use only SLip2000 EWL for lube and Slip 2000 725 to clean.

**All of the rounds were fired during class (at the rate of approximately 1,250 rounds every 3 days)**

I do not recommend allowing the gun to go this long without PM (preventive maintenance). However, we wanted to see how far we could take this particular gun (#14) without being burdened by the myth of meticulous cleaning

Finally, a shameless photo of my first and currently only AR:

 

[MVF]

Gas piston AR-15's are over rated for most civilian users.

If you are not shooting with a suppressor, stick with a traditional direct impingement rifle. Properly maintained, you can shoot it until your wallet is empty. Really, how often do you shoot in excess of 500 rounds in one range session?

The military uses some piston driven M-16's for different reasons (ones most of us will never see).

Me, I'll stick with my factory Colt M-16 ... it works, works very well. Someday if I want to torture test a suppressor, I might run a piston driven upper some day. For gas in the face with a suppressor, I'll just run a gas buster charging handle and spend the money saved on more ammo or a new suppressor.

Is this because civilians have so much more time for cleaning than the military guys? I still clean my gas piston AR but now it takes 10 minutes instead of 45 and I don't have to wait for the bolt to cool.

I shot a traditional AR in the service and will probably always love the platform, but having shot both and having a choice (since I'm paying for it), I'm going for the gas piston every time. I know there were issues with the early ones, but now that they're dependable, why would you want the DI (except for price)?

 

[TexAg10]

Is this because civilians have so much more time for cleaning than the military guys? I still clean my gas piston AR but now it takes 10 minutes instead of 45 and I don't have to wait for the bolt to cool.

I shot a traditional AR in the service and will probably always love the platform, but having shot both and having a choice (since I'm paying for it), I'm going for the gas piston every time. I know there were issues with the early ones, but now that they're dependable, why would you want the DI (except for price)?

If it takes you 45 minutes to clean your AR you're doing it wrong. Clean the barrel, give the bcg a quick wipe down, then get it wet with lube and put it back together. Looks at the article excerpt I posted above to show you what a properly built AR does when you just keep it wet with lube.

 

[MutedRaccoon]

If it takes you 45 minutes to clean your AR you're doing it wrong. Clean the barrel, give the bcg a quick wipe down, then get it wet with lube and put it back together. Looks at the article excerpt I posted above to show you what a properly built AR does when you just keep it wet with lube.

Your forgetting to do the BATN, beer and a tactical nap...an essential part of the vigorous 45 minute cleaning regiment.

(MVF, I know what your saying but I had to do it)

 

[zenheretic]

Get a M-14. Springfield sells it under the M1-A designation. A classsic rifle, taking some of the best ideas from our WWII M1-Garand, and bridging the gap to our current M-16. Thought to be obsolete, it is now in high demand in the open mountains and deserts. Also you can take a deer with one.

IMO, leave it in the original stock...

 

[bmilla35]

I'm liking everyone's guns :thumbup:

To answer the question of what it will be used for...mainly shooting at the range but I would definitely use it to hunt varmints. That's something I have always wanted to get into.

 

[bmilla35]

https://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=208 That's the one my dad is leaning towards right now...but the site doesn't offer a list of dealers . Also, other sites don't offer prices or show the MSRP..which makes it a little harder in looking at them

How are Smith and Wessons?

 

[MutedRaccoon]

https://www.danieldefense.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=208 That's the one my dad is leaning towards right now...but the site doesn't offer a list of dealers . Also, other sites don't offer prices or show the MSRP..which makes it a little harder in looking at them

How are Smith and Wessons?

I'd look into a LaRue or Noveske before a S&W, nothing wrong with a S&W its just theres other out there that make nicer toys. Of course if all else fails Colt is always a happy medium to fall onto.