Assault rifle recommendation...

bmilla35 said:
I would totally be up for that! Unfortunately, my stubborn dad (the main contributor to the gun) has his mind set on the AR15 from Daniel Defense. I found it on the website I mentioned earlier for a little less than $1300.
Click to expand...

Listen to your DAD. He apparently has done some good research.
 
Now that I have picked out a gun (or should I see WE), we have to tackle the problem of a site. My dad prefers the look of the holographic sites...and the budget would be about $500 (although we can go up another 150 or so). If you prefer red dots or something else we are certainly open to suggestion

ETA: My bro said he was lookin at the Eotech 552
 
Bill86 said:
I personally went a bit higher and paid $1100 for a Smith & Wesson M&P AR-15, 5.56/.223 either/or. I also have a Arsenal AK-47 which was somewhere around $850. Out of the 2 the AR-15 is much better, WAY more accurate. Even though I think the sighting on my AK isn't up to par but nevertheless no questions asked the AR-15 will shoot insane groups.

The only disadvantage with the S&W AR-15 is pmags don't fit it without modification. Although by modification I literally mean taking a circular file and filing off part of the mag. Takes maybe 5 minutes a mag, I adjust all 3 of my pmags and now they work fantastic.
Click to expand...

Bill86,
Unless I missed something, your saying Pmags dont work In the S&W? Mine came with a Pmag new and I have 5 more that work perfectly with no mods. Might want to check out the mag release in your rifle and see if there is a problem. Just trying to be helpful.
Oh and I agree with going with the AR platform. Smiths are good and if you look around you can find new in the box for around $900.
 
bmilla35 said:
Now that I have picked out a gun (or should I see WE), we have to tackle the problem of a site. My dad prefers the look of the holographic sites...and the budget would be about $500 (although we can go up another 150 or so). If you prefer red dots or something else we are certainly open to suggestion

ETA: My bro said he was lookin at the Eotech 552
Click to expand...

Try them both.

Its a six on one hand half a dozen on the other type of question. I have my opinion, the next poster has his, and the next one has his. Shoot irons/BUIS till you can try them both out and pick which you like the best. Heck you never know you might end up liking a ACOG better.

That being said Aimpoint, better battery life, better on the abuse, and a better optic in my opinion.

EOs get me on target faster, theres no doubting that my shot time is much faster using a EO, I also do both eyes open when using a EO...However bad battery life (compared to aimpoint) and an auto shutoff makes it a pass for me.

No matter what optic you pick get a LaRue mount for it.
 
check over in the ESEE forum. there's a pretty good thread there with all kinds of good info.the idiot's guide to the ar-15... plenty of helpful links
 
bmilla35 said:
Now that I have picked out a gun (or should I see WE), we have to tackle the problem of a site. My dad prefers the look of the holographic sites...and the budget would be about $500 (although we can go up another 150 or so). If you prefer red dots or something else we are certainly open to suggestion

ETA: My bro said he was lookin at the Eotech 552
Click to expand...

Eotech has a spotty track record. All models with batteries mounted parallel to the gun have had problems with the springs wearing due to recoil and causing the sight to blink on and off. Some will also drain batteries while stored in the off position, which makes for a nice surprise when you head to the range. The XPS models seem to do away with some of those problems, but have a realistic battery life of 200 hours or less.

Aimpoints have a much better durability record, and the battery life is astounding. My H1 has a life of 50k hours on one battery, so you can always leave them on. They cost a bit more than eotechs, but you pay for quality and if you keep the sight for a while the difference will be made up in batteries.
 
otis williams said:
check over in the ESEE forum. there's a pretty good thread there with all kinds of good info.the idiot's guide to the ar-15... plenty of helpful links
Click to expand...

Thanks for that...there is some good reading :thumbup:

When everything is all done i'll make sure to contribute!
 
It appears Aimpoint is the preferred brand here...thanks for saving me the trouble! Well...I actually will still try and shoot both but as of now at least the favorite vote has been swayed :D
 
TexAg10 said:
Eotech has a spotty track record. All models with batteries mounted parallel to the gun have had problems with the springs wearing due to recoil and causing the sight to blink on and off. Some will also drain batteries while stored in the off position, which makes for a nice surprise when you head to the range. The XPS models seem to do away with some of those problems, but have a realistic battery life of 200 hours or less.

Aimpoints have a much better durability record, and the battery life is astounding. My H1 has a life of 50k hours on one battery, so you can always leave them on. They cost a bit more than eotechs, but you pay for quality and if you keep the sight for a while the difference will be made up in batteries.
Click to expand...

though i also like aimpoints better i have had a couple of eotechs, one for 5-6 yrs now, and have never had any problems with it at all.

that said, i agree the aimpoints, imho, are a bit better albeit more expensive optic, for most applications.

but i could get by just fine with either in a pinch.
 
Daniel Defense makes a great rifle but also look at Bravo Company rifles at bravocompanyUSA.com . These are fantastic, especially their hammer forged barrel models. DD, Bravo Company, LMT and Colt will be good to go right out of the box and not need the nickel and dime shit a bushmaster or DPMS may need out of the box. I'd also recommend a midlength gas system if you're running a 16" barrel. It'll be smoother shooting and you'll have less wear and tear on your guns guts.

I'd also recommend skipping the optic if you're a relatively new shooter and go with a good set of iron sights. Buy a bunch of P-Mags ( magpul) and a shit ton of ammo and run the piss out of it. Maybe a good weaponlight if you're going to use it for home defense.

My first AR was a S&W M&P15 carbine with a rail that I saw fit to immediately fill with garbage. It got an EoTech ( which are fine RDS ) a VFG, a light. It's best to start stock and do allot of shooting and add accessories out of necessity rather than because you read that you need them.

Happy shooting!
 
bmilla35 said:
Hey fellas..my brother and father have been bugging me to post here for a while now and I am finally getting around to it.

My brother is a big gun nut (for being 15). For years he has been buying airsoft guns and customizing those, in addition to shooting the families shotguns and rifles. One thing we don't have, however, is an assault rifle. With the president in office, it's possible AR's could be outlawed and I think it's about time we get one before its too late.

I'm not sure of the budget...but I don't think it should be over $1500? We can talk about caliber, brand, etc. Because I know nothing about them :p

My brother, maybe jokingly, is throwing out names like eotech polygraphic sites, magpul "stuff", and other things I dont remember :D

Thanks guys. I look forward to hearing what you guys have to say
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Check out the DPMS Mark 12. If its anything like my LR-308B, and I know it is, its a heavy hitter with great accuracy. My LR-308 was $940, and I think you can score a Mark 12 for $1300 or so.
 
Orders have been placed :thumbup:

Now we have to wait for the FFL (who hasn't been the nicest guy, but he is local) to send a copy of his license before the order is put through...:D:D
 
[youtube]fAHXosoNlvo[/youtube]

There is no substitute. Very fun to shoot. It will eat up the shittiest ammo you can find and be hungry for more.
 
I've been a USPSA type practical shooter for over 25years, with the emphasis in 3gun for the last few. The key to any good rifle is the trigger, so I would suggest a Rock River with their national match trigger. There are aftermarket triggers that add later expense. I would suggest staying with a trigger with a "Garand" style disconnector. I shoot a Rock River full float 16inch flat top with intermediate gas block location, 4x32 ACOG, on a Armalite Eagle receiver with a Rock River trigger (might as well get the whole kit). I have a single Picatinny rail on the forearm bottom as a mount for a Knight vertical grip. I use the vertical grip as a monopod. I have a home brew fixed sight on the forearm for close targets. To get the most out of your rile, look at the whole package, especially what kind of optics/scope you want, and what kind of shooting you will do with it. If you haven't tried some of the 3gun or pistol competitions, try it .... you will greatly improve your gun handling skills... regards Les
 
Les Snyder said:
I've been a USPSA type practical shooter for over 25years, with the emphasis in 3gun for the last few. The key to any good rifle is the trigger, so I would suggest a Rock River with their national match trigger. There are aftermarket triggers that add later expense. I would suggest staying with a trigger with a "Garand" style disconnector. I shoot a Rock River full float 16inch flat top with intermediate gas block location, 4x32 ACOG, on a Armalite Eagle receiver with a Rock River trigger (might as well get the whole kit). I have a single Picatinny rail on the forearm bottom as a mount for a Knight vertical grip. I use the vertical grip as a monopod. I have a home brew fixed sight on the forearm for close targets. To get the most out of your rile, look at the whole package, especially what kind of optics/scope you want, and what kind of shooting you will do with it. If you haven't tried some of the 3gun or pistol competitions, try it .... you will greatly improve your gun handling skills... regards Les
Click to expand...

RRA gets a big thumbs up in my book, I picked up a RRA 1911 not expecting much and got quite a treat they not only make a good product for the price they've got some excellent customer service.

However I believe he's already found what he wanted and is "pulling the trigger" :p on the purchase as we speak.
 
bmilla35 said:
Hey fellas..my brother and father have been bugging me to post here for a while now and I am finally getting around to it.

My brother is a big gun nut (for being 15). For years he has been buying airsoft guns and customizing those, in addition to shooting the families shotguns and rifles. One thing we don't have, however, is an assault rifle. With the president in office, it's possible AR's could be outlawed and I think it's about time we get one before its too late.

I'm not sure of the budget...but I don't think it should be over $1500? We can talk about caliber, brand, etc. Because I know nothing about them :p

My brother, maybe jokingly, is throwing out names like eotech polygraphic sites, magpul "stuff", and other things I dont remember :D

Thanks guys. I look forward to hearing what you guys have to say
Click to expand...

Unless you mean a semi-automatic sporting rifle, you will have to fork over big bucks to get an automatic weapon through transfer from an owner wanting to make a return on his mid 1980s "investment." I'm pretty sure you don't want to fork over $10-20K for a real military/full auto capable weapon, so I'll proceed with the assumption you want a starter semi-auto "black rifle" based on either an AR or AK foundation, correct?

AR rifles are a bit more costly, arguably more accurate and just a bit more effort to clean. If you have a thing for relatively ugly military rifles, you can't go wrong with an AR. You need not be limited to 5.56x45 mm either, there are uppers that can chamber in everything from .17 to .50 cal if you feel so inclined. If you don't like the stock direct impingment of the AR and want to go with a gas piston to reduce the frequency of cleaning, there is an upper for that and in several popular calibers (though you will pay for that privilege). Given how these rifles are used, say for weekend range use, it's probably wasted money to get anything but a stock AR, quality 20 round sporter mags and the usual accessories. They can be refined, but in my eyes, still not a slim, lean profile. There are plenty of semiautomatic rifles that cost less and if accuracy isn't your primary focus, the Ruger Mini 14, Mini 30 or the Kel Tec SU-16 are probably better choices. A 3" group at 100 yards is "good enough" for probably 99% of all legitimate hunting and sporting use and both are half the price of a typical AR15.

On the other hand, the AKs, made in just about every former Soviet vassal state and the rising industrial super power of China, are often flawlessly reliable with inexpensive if sometimes primitive accessories and are probably just a bit cheaper to acquire ammunition for, though could be considered equal in this area with stocks of surplus ammo being depleted by certain decade long conflicts in Central Asia.

AKs can be "accurized" to some degree, but they are not designed to be shot for shot accurate (primary design goals were for controlled automatic fire and reliability before accuracy). AKMs are also fairly heavy, a bit clunky and they rattle if shaken (by design, more clearance to shrug off dirt and fouling). A look at the action makes it clear there isn't much to break. A fine sporting rifle they are not, though a more refined variant based on the AK100 receiver can be had from Saiga that will set you back perhaps $350.00. An AK can usually be brutalized, neglected and outright abused while being expected to continue to function. There are limits however.

Particularly nice examples of the basic AKM can be had from the Eastern European: Romania, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, etc. Modifications of the basic AK design were used as the bassis for the excellent Finnish Valmet, the Isreali Galil (made from the basic Valmet, originally with tooling supplied by the same company) and the South African R5 and R6, which were based on examples and tooling in turn supplied by the Isrealis in the 80s. The last three AK based designs aren't as cheap as the ComBlok AKMs, nor the ubiquitous Chinese AKMs, but they are generally more refined with higher quality fit and finish and slightly better accuracy, if that matters.

Third option might be the AR18, a rifle nearly forgotten about. This is a cheaper option than an AR15 with a fancy gas-piston "upgrade" upper and uses cheap 20 and 30 round mags. Unlike AR15 it uses pressed steel stampings instead of cast or milled aluminum receiver. It's about as accurate as the AR15 and was the basis for a number of derivative military assault rifles, squad support weapon sand designated marksman weapon systems (the Brits with the SA80/L85 and Germans with the "new" G36). AR18 might have actually become the M16 within the US military given it's lower cost to manufacture and minor improvements in reliability, but weapons procurement almost never follows logic and it came after the AR15 had already been adopted as the M16, too late to make a difference.

For my part, if it "had" to be a military type rifle rather than a bolt action or semi-automatic sporting rifle, I'd prefer an L1A1, FN FAL or M14/M1A, more or less in that order. The "varmint" calibers like 5.56x45 and 5.54x39 are low recoil, but they offer less utility if you want to increase range without getting into boutique calibers like 6.8 Remington, 6.5 mm Grendel or 6 mm PPC. .308 Winchester is plenty abundant and available in a a very wide range of loading for hunting and target use. Keep in mind the high velocity/small caliber argument was for reduced training requirement, lighter rifles firing in bursts to increase hit probability, not to improve on the already good .308/7.62x51 mm range and effectiveness, but that's another argument altogether.

Magpul makes a modular rifle system that allows you to pull the upper off and switch calibers easily (say between 5.56x45 mm to 7.62x39 mm). They use a gas piston instead of direct impingment and are reportedly well built, fully ambidextrous controls and accurate, but I don't have any information beyond this, I've never handled one. The ease of caliber conversion is one of their primary features, something AR15 can do pretty well already. I question the value of fully ambidextrous controls for a non-tactial use, but if you are left handed, perhaps that matters. I doubt you could touch one for $1500.00, more like $2000.00.

My suggestion, in order to avoid breaking the bank, is to start by looking at the AKs and if after all the things you may want do to the rifle you are below the cost of an AR, buy one. If you are interested in buying several uppers to support several calibers, or just have to have ninja rails on every surface, buy an AR.

Assuming a budget of around $350, Saiga 7.62x39mm or 5.56x45mm, Mini 14 or Mini 30 (same rifle but in 7.62x39 mm), Kel Tec SU-16, I believe currently limited to 5.56x45 mm (6.8mm Remington planned?). As a first rifle, they are also simple, reliable and relatively cheap to fix.

If the budget is $500-$750, you could open up your options, but an AR15 would remain out of reach. I believe an AR18 still starts at around $800. The Valmet, Galil and R4/R5/R6 will each cost about as much as lower end or used AR.

If you really don't need a military style semi-auto rifle (and the Saiga certainly tries not to be too obvious about it's heritage), the Ruger and SU-16 are fun rifles, not expensive and sufficiently accurate to get the job done. Plenty of places make actions and barrels to accurize the Ruger further and there are several models of SU-16 to choose from (which use standard STANAG mags).

Good luck,

-E
 
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MutedRaccoon said:
RRA gets a big thumbs up in my book, I picked up a RRA 1911 not expecting much and got quite a treat they not only make a good product for the price they've got some excellent customer service.

However I believe he's already found what he wanted and is "pulling the trigger" :p on the purchase as we speak.
Click to expand...

Oh the trigger has been pulled! We hope to be getting a call from the FFL on Monday. The site should be here on Monday as well...unless for some reason someone isnt here to sign for it!
 
erichsen said:
Unless you mean a semi-automatic sporting rifle, you will have to fork over big bucks to get an automatic weapon through transfer from an owner wanting to make a return on his mid 1980s "investment." I'm pretty sure you don't want to fork over $10-20K for a real military/full auto capable weapon, so I'll proceed with the assumption you want a starter semi-auto "black rifle" based on either an AR or AK foundation, correct?

AR rifles are a bit more costly, arguably more accurate and just a bit more effort to clean. If you have a thing for relatively ugly military rifles, you can't go wrong with an AR. You need not be limited to 5.56x45 mm either, there are uppers that can chamber in everything from .17 to .50 cal if you feel so inclined. If you don't like the stock direct impingment of the AR and want to go with a gas piston to reduce the frequency of cleaning, there is an upper for that and in several popular calibers (though you will pay for that privilege). Given how these rifles are used, say for weekend range use, it's probably wasted money to get anything but a stock AR, quality 20 round sporter mags and the usual accessories. They can be refined, but in my eyes, still not a slim, lean profile. There are plenty of semiautomatic rifles that cost less and if accuracy isn't your primary focus, the Ruger Mini 14, Mini 30 or the Kel Tec SU-16 are probably better choices. A 3" group at 100 yards is "good enough" for probably 99% of all legitimate hunting and sporting use and both are half the price of a typical AR15.

On the other hand, the AKs, made in just about every former Soviet vassal state and the rising industrial super power of China, are often flawlessly reliable with inexpensive if sometimes primitive accessories and are probably just a bit cheaper to acquire ammunition for, though could be considered equal in this area with stocks of surplus ammo being depleted by certain decade long conflicts in Central Asia.

AKs can be "accurized" to some degree, but they are not designed to be shot for shot accurate (primary design goals were for controlled automatic fire and reliability before accuracy). AKMs are also fairly heavy, a bit clunky and they rattle if shaken (by design, more clearance to shrug off dirt and fouling). A look at the action makes it clear there isn't much to break. A fine sporting rifle they are not, though a more refined variant based on the AK100 receiver can be had from Saiga that will set you back perhaps $350.00. An AK can usually be brutalized, neglected and outright abused while being expected to continue to function. There are limits however.

Particularly nice examples of the basic AKM can be had from the Eastern European: Romania, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland, etc. Modifications of the basic AK design were used as the bassis for the excellent Finnish Valmet, the Isreali Galil (made from the basic Valmet, originally with tooling supplied by the same company) and the South African R5 and R6, which were based on examples and tooling in turn supplied by the Isrealis in the 80s. The last three AK based designs aren't as cheap as the ComBlok AKMs, nor the ubiquitous Chinese AKMs, but they are generally more refined with higher quality fit and finish and slightly better accuracy, if that matters.

Third option might be the AR18, a rifle nearly forgotten about. This is a cheaper option than an AR15 with a fancy gas-piston "upgrade" upper and uses cheap 20 and 30 round mags. Unlike AR15 it uses pressed steel stampings instead of cast or milled aluminum receiver. It's about as accurate as the AR15 and was the basis for a number of derivative military assault rifles, squad support weapon sand designated marksman weapon systems (the Brits with the SA80/L85 and Germans with the "new" G36). AR18 might have actually become the M16 within the US military given it's lower cost to manufacture and minor improvements in reliability, but weapons procurement almost never follows logic and it came after the AR15 had already been adopted as the M16, too late to make a difference.

For my part, if it "had" to be a military type rifle rather than a bolt action or semi-automatic sporting rifle, I'd prefer an L1A1, FN FAL or M14/M1A, more or less in that order. The "varmint" calibers like 5.56x45 and 5.54x39 are low recoil, but they offer less utility if you want to increase range without getting into boutique calibers like 6.8 Remington, 6.5 mm Grendel or 6 mm PPC. .308 Winchester is plenty abundant and available in a a very wide range of loading for hunting and target use. Keep in mind the high velocity/small caliber argument was for reduced training requirement, lighter rifles firing in bursts to increase hit probability, not to improve on the already good .308/7.62x51 mm range and effectiveness, but that's another argument altogether.

Magpul makes a modular rifle system that allows you to pull the upper off and switch calibers easily (say between 5.56x45 mm to 7.62x39 mm). They use a gas piston instead of direct impingment and are reportedly well built, fully ambidextrous controls and accurate, but I don't have any information beyond this, I've never handled one. The ease of caliber conversion is one of their primary features, something AR15 can do pretty well already. I question the value of fully ambidextrous controls for a non-tactial use, but if you are left handed, perhaps that matters. I doubt you could touch one for $1500.00, more like $2000.00.

My suggestion, in order to avoid breaking the bank, is to start by looking at the AKs and if after all the things you may want do to the rifle you are below the cost of an AR, buy one. If you are interested in buying several uppers to support several calibers, or just have to have ninja rails on every surface, buy an AR.

Assuming a budget of around $350, Saiga 7.62x39mm or 5.56x45mm, Mini 14 or Mini 30 (same rifle but in 7.62x39 mm), Kel Tec SU-16, I believe currently limited to 5.56x45 mm (6.8mm Remington planned?). As a first rifle, they are also simple, reliable and relatively cheap to fix.

If the budget is $500-$750, you could open up your options, but an AR15 would remain out of reach. I believe an AR18 still starts at around $800. The Valmet, Galil and R4/R5/R6 will each cost about as much as lower end or used AR.

If you really don't need a military style semi-auto rifle (and the Saiga certainly tries not to be too obvious about it's heritage), the Ruger and SU-16 are fun rifles, not expensive and sufficiently accurate to get the job done. Plenty of places make actions and barrels to accurize the Ruger further and there are several models of SU-16 to choose from (which use standard STANAG mags).

Good luck,

-E
Click to expand...

Yeahhhh...I used the incorrect wordage for what I wanted. A semi-auto sporting rifle is really want I wanted. Thanks for the post...I think the next gun in line is an AK of some sort.


I will make sure to post pictures as soon as I can :D:thumbup:
 
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