"At the buyers discretion"

[stonesell]

So, you go in assuming every transaction is a possible con? I mean, any seller could just as easily be a scam artist, sending me an empty box, which will still show up as delivered. Also, what I'm taking from this response is again, that you will send something signature required unless someone specifically states that they prefer you not to. Again, that doesn't wow me. As for what is prudent, I believe just the opposite. It is not my responsibility to have to inform a seller not to do something that is going to irritate or offend me, which is out of the norm of standard shipping. I have received hundreds of knives in the course of my pursuit of this hobby, and have had signature confirmation exactly twice (both times unasked for). In both cases, I sent the sellers an extremely terse email.

Sure, good communication will solve this issue, which is why it is on you as the seller to disclose the full discourse of the shipping you will use. It's not on me to verify that you will or won't do something, because you should have a full explanation issued already. Frankly, if I have to ask you to clarify something, you have done a poor job at outlining your procedure. Here's an example of the right way to go about it:

"Hello,

Thank you for purchasing my knife! Upon payment, I will ship your knife within 24 hours. I ship using a USPS Priority Small flat-rate box, and will insure the package for this amount. Are there any extra additional measures you'd like me to take? If you'd like me use a different shipping service, I'd be glad to discuss with you, although you'll need to make up the difference."

If you send me the above message, and the knife shows up "Signature Required" when I had not asked for that, and you didn't specify up front, that was your failure as a seller, not mine as the buyer. After all, literally the whole point of buying things online is that they show up at my home, instead of me having to go somewhere to retrieve/buy the item. Having to go somewhere to pick up a package is the exact opposite of what the experience is supposed to be.

I think that larger dollar amount transactions with a totally unknown individual, should be sent with a required signature, to help offset any potential fraud, which is rampant these days.
You are assuming that I am some type of mad “signature required” type of person, when in reality I have never used it once in the $28k worth of knives that I have sold to bladeforums members. The reason for this is because most member profiles are transparent, and there is less risk, if we take the time to study the members history, and half of those sales were just repeat clients that enjoyed our transactions.
I agree with you that if a seller wanted to use the signature service within our community, it would be polite to communicate the fact, so that both parties can have a happy transaction experience.
I am not trying to single out busy members like yourself that live in apartment complexes. There will inevitably be some packages too big to fit in your mailbox, so some trips to the post office may be necessary anyway. I do always worry about packages left on the front porch of a house, so once again, signature required could save a package from being stolen.
All that being said, I would still use signature confirmation without first confirming it with a totally unknown buyer, if I wanted to protect the shipment that I am responsible for. I also think that it’s interesting for us to be able to theoretically discuss all of these angles on our forum, and hopefully without offending other members, which is not my intention.

 

[Quiet]

I think that larger dollar amount transactions with a totally unknown individual, should be sent with a required signature, to help offset any potential fraud, which is rampant these days.
You are assuming that I am some type of mad “signature required” type of person, when in reality I have never used it once in the $28k worth of knives that I have sold to bladeforums members. The reason for this is because most member profiles are transparent, and there is less risk, if we take the time to study the members history, and half of those sales were just repeat clients that enjoyed our transitions.
I agree with you that if a seller wanted to use the signature service within our community, it would be polite to communicate the fact, so that both parties can have a happy transaction experience.
I am not trying to single out busy members like yourself that live in apartment complexes. There will inevitably be some packages too big to fit in your mailbox, so some trips to the post office may be necessary anyway. I do always worry about packages left on the front porch of a house, so once again, signature required could save a package from being stolen.
All that being said, I would still use signature confirmation without first confirming it with a totally unknown buyer, if I wanted to protect the shipment that I am responsible for. I also think that it’s interesting for us to be able to theoretically discuss all of these angles on our forum, and hopefully without offending other members, which is not my intention.

I will just say that your previous inferences that implied/stated that you would send packages requiring a signature without notifying the buyer is what rubbed me the wrong way. Also, to clarify, I don't live in an apartment. Our neighborhood has central mail-boxes posted throughout, which also contain parcel lockers. I am understanding of the idea that many people may not have this specific setup, and so take real value from Signature Confirmation. For me, about the only time we have things left on our doorstep are in cases where we have ordered things from Amazon like large pieces of furniture and so on. Everything else is always under lock and key if it's brought by USPS.

 

[stonesell]

I will just say that your previous inferences that implied/stated that you would send packages requiring a signature without notifying the buyer is what rubbed me the wrong way. Also, to clarify, I don't live in an apartment. Our neighborhood has central mail-boxes posted throughout, which also contain parcel lockers. I am understanding of the idea that many people may not have this specific setup, and so take real value from Signature Confirmation. For me, about the only time we have things left on our doorstep are in cases where we have ordered things from Amazon like large pieces of furniture and so on. Everything else is always under lock and key if it's brought by USPS.

It sounds like a pretty cool and secure set up that you guys have for receiving mail.
As far as implied statements that may unintentionally provoke another forum member, well I think that communication is an art form that many have not mastered, as I know I haven’t. I like to still try though, and it’s a constant learning experience, perhaps arguably better than keeping silent.

 

[Chariotz4]

Your first sentence effectively removes you from the point I have contention with. "I list it as being something included in the price of the knife". BOOM. Got it. Good deal. If I as the buyer don't want that, I'm free to discuss with you, and we can come to an arrangement that's satisfactory for both parties. Awesome.

As for my dislike of the inconvenience of SC, I'm sure it has its uses for many people. "the extra piece of mind it provides can be worth the potential hassle it may provide." Simply put (and without rehashing things I've already said here) for me, it simply doesn't. As they are for you, knives for me are a hobby, a discretionary enjoyment in life. When I am forced to leave the office early, or take up a lunch hour going to the PO, I am Not a Happy Camper. If my knife doesn't show up, I give it about two or three days (I've also had neighbors receive packages meant for me) to materialize before contacting the seller to get the ball rolling on the next step in the situation. I would say that's what insurance is for, but I personally believe due to past personal experiences that USPS insurance to be worthless.[/USER]

A "different strokes for different folks" kind of scenario. I don't mind pleasant surprises, but when doing business/buying/selling with another party, I like to try and keep the surprises non-existent. I imagine things tend to work out better for both parties that way. I've been lucky to have the free time to go get my packages when they're redirected to the nearby PO after an attempted delivery lately, but I also sympathize with you because in times past, I've had to make some large out-of-the-way adjustments to my day to go pick up a package I've been expecting. Like you said, that can often be less than fun.

As for insurance, I've never had to use it yet, and I hope it stays that way. Not sure what how Canada Post handles insurance claims, but I hope it's better than how you've described the process with USPS.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

A signature did save an $800-$850(can't remember) knife recently. It was marked as delivered and a signature and address were scribbled in. The buyer got right on it(Thank You) and the PO produced the knife the next day. No signature and PO would have said it was delivered too bad. They never explained what had happened, but a Incorrect signature and $800+ claim got them moving. I like the signature feature. I certainly would work with the buyer as best I could, but the protection of the package is most important. If the buyer wants to forgo protections they need to take the responsibility .
Only the buyer knows how secure or insecure their setting is as well as how difficult it might be to pick up a package, so it would be easiest if they initiated any special instructions on shipping.

 

[Quiet]

A "different strokes for different folks" kind of scenario. I don't mind pleasant surprises, but when doing business/buying/selling with another party, I like to try and keep the surprises non-existent. I imagine things tend to work out better for both parties that way. I've been lucky to have the free time to go get my packages when they're redirected to the nearby PO after an attempted delivery lately, but I also sympathize with you because in times past, I've had to make some large out-of-the-way adjustments to my day to go pick up a package I've been expecting. Like you said, that can often be less than fun.

As for insurance, I've never had to use it yet, and I hope it stays that way. Not sure what how Canada Post handles insurance claims, but I hope it's better than how you've described the process with USPS.

You aren't wrong. I have a buddy who had a knife disappear in the system, and when he filed an insurance claim with USPS for the value of the knife, suddenly it was all "We need to see receipts from the sale". They did not accept the communication between my friend and his buyer as proof of sale. When my bud tried to explain that it was long discontinued and this was a collectible item, the Postal claim investigator did some online search to try to corroborate value on the knife. This was unsuccessful because as aforementioned, it was long discontinued, so they used the shown amount from an old listing on BladeHQ to establish the "value". It was roughly a third of what the knife was now worth, but they based the reimbursement on that number. This was despite having had insurance on what the knife had actually sold for. My friend did everything by the book, and USPS only reimbursed that third, then closed the claim ticket. Calls to the local post master went unreturned, and when he went down to the PO to speak to whoever was in charge, that person looked in the system, saw the closed claim, said there was nothing further to be done and wished him a nice day.

In fact, I've never heard of an insurance claim on a lost item of collectible value being reimbursed for the full value. This is why I don't generally insure a knife unless it's a recent/still available model where I can point to actual value, though I insure it when a buyer asks. I recognize that for many, having insurance is peace of mind. For me, it's a risk we take putting an item of significant value in a small cardboard box and placing in the possession of a third party and hoping it ends up where it's supposed to.

 

[Chariotz4]

You aren't wrong. I have a buddy who had a knife disappear in the system, and when he filed an insurance claim with USPS for the value of the knife, suddenly it was all "We need to see receipts from the sale". They did not accept the communication between my friend and his buyer as proof of sale. When my bud tried to explain that it was long discontinued and this was a collectible item, the Postal claim investigator did some online search to try to corroborate value on the knife. This was was unsuccessful because as aforementioned, it was long discontinued, so they used the shown amount from an old listing on BladeHQ to establish the "value". It was roughly a third of what the knife was now worth, but they based the reimbursement on that number. This was despite having had insurance on what the knife had actually sold for. My friend did everything by the book, and USPS only reimbursed that third, then closed the claim ticket. Calls to the local post master went unreturned, and when he went down to the PO to speak to whoever was in charge, that person looked in the system, saw the closed claim, said there was nothing further to be done and wished him a nice day.

In fact, I've never heard of an insurance claim on a lost item of collectible value being reimbursed for the full value. This is why I don't generally insure a knife unless it's a recent/still available model where I can point to actual value, though I insure it when a buyer asks. I recognize that for many, having insurance is peace of mind. For me, it's a risk we take putting an item of significant value in a small cardboard box and placing in the possession of a third party and hoping it ends up where it's supposed to.

Well articulated and well reasoned. Also, that sucks for your buddy. Hopefully that's the last time he has something disappear into a postal black hole.

 

[Heirphoto]

Just noticed that one of the big online knife retailers named after some famous mountains in the south adds mandatory insurance to your order at checkout. So as the law says it is their responsibility to make sure that package gets to me, but in this case they would do it at my expense. Just does not sit right with me. At least build it into the price so I don't have to see it

 

[WValtakis]

Just noticed that one of the big online knife retailers named after some famous mountains in the south adds mandatory insurance to your order at checkout. So as the law says it is their responsibility to make sure that package gets to me, but in this case they would do it at my expense. Just does not sit right with me. At least build it into the price so I don't have to see it

I noticed that too when I ordered from them last week... a $2 insurance charge on two $13 knives

~Chip

 

[onekerf]

Just noticed that one of the big online knife retailers named after some famous mountains in the south adds mandatory insurance to your order at checkout. So as the law says it is their responsibility to make sure that package gets to me, but in this case they would do it at my expense. Just does not sit right with me. At least build it into the price so I don't have to see it

Well, I guess I'd have to check their competitors' total cost to me for the same item, without the "mandatory" insurance charge, before I would order from "them". Isn't it their property to insure until I have accepted delivery?

 

[Peter Hartwig]

Usually there is just a shipping charge, and I don't think dealers insure items very often. Very few packages don't make their destinations and they will come out ahead by just self insuring. On hindsight I wouldn't have. I just didn't realize I was going to do so many transactions when I started, but you just never know-could have lost the 1st. Instead I haven't lost any and the PO has picked up a lot of $'s.