Australian Hardwoods and Axes

Frank - great info. Makes the oak, elm, and hickory we have seem like child's fodder now. I might have to get this Hytest I have in working order.
 
Big O...I'm bidding on a Hytest at the moment. Hope to get it for a fair price. I must say though KELLY PLUMB and HYTEST seem to be fetching very good prices at the moment.

There is a type of Elm growing next property to us. I use the windfalls for fire wood. It's tight wood and cuts quite well when green, but let it dry and it's like steel. Burns hot but creates quite a bit of ash.

regards...Frank.
 
Frank-New Zealand said:
Big O...I'm bidding on a Hytest at the moment. Hope to get it for a fair price. I must say though KELLY PLUMB and HYTEST seem to be fetching very good prices at the moment.

There is a type of Elm growing next property to us. I use the windfalls for fire wood. It's tight wood and cuts quite well when green, but let it dry and it's like steel. Burns hot but creates quite a bit of ash.

regards...Frank.
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Frank - true about the elm - at least what I have on my property. Hard when dry - harder on the axe. Burns real hot - lots of btus. I know I don't like chopping or splitting it- cant imagine some of that Aussie wood!
 
Vic ash & Mountain Ash are two more hard woods that can be tough to cut. So can the humble peppermint-thats damn had stuff.
 
I live in the bush in NSW and we still rely on firewood for heat. I havent done any cutting with an axe but just this afternoon i was out chopping up a fallen eucalypt with my machete (to clean it up a bit and let it season for next years firewood). it has been sitting there for a couple of months and its pretty easy to chop if you know how to do it. You just have to get the right angle. I was using an old WW2 bolo machete with bakelite handles too :D eucalyptus is pretty much the only type of tree i chop. Hope this helps :)
 
I feel the pain that the old sleeper hewers had with red gum. I have tried many times to cut red gum fence posts but haven had great luck yet hard stuff and a great colour it is.
 
Steve Tall said:
Here are some quotes from an interesting blog, "axemen's news online", which explains how North American axemen need to adjust their technique to do well in Australian hardwoods:


"What to do if you go to Sydney Australia and cut hardwood"
from Axemen's News Online, posted by Arden Cogar, Jr.
http://axemensnews.blogspot.com/2004/06/what-to-do-if-you-go-to-sydney.html



...you have to really work on your axe presentation. Axe presentation is a round bout way of saying "how you strike or present the axe to the log." There are differing theories on axe presentation, but I've watched and studied David Bolstad, Bruce Winkel, Matthew Gurr, Mitch Hewitt, Bill Youd, and George Quigg. All of these axemen present the axe to hardwood heel first with the handle slightly cocked on both up and down swings (as well as the drive and chip hits in the underhand). In addition, all these axemen strike the log with their arms completely straight. I know this may be hard to visualize, but I have prepared an additional article concerning axe presentation in a different part of the book. Note that in softwood, heel presentation is not as important as the full face of the axe can be presented to maximize the axe's penetration in the wood. Also note that when the heel is presnted to the log first, the axe handle should be at a 20 to 30 degree incline if you were to stand and face the scarf and the center line on the log was indicative of 90 degrees. The converse can be stated for the down hits. The same hold true for the underhand except the geometry is altered.

..........Try to get to where you can cut a 14" hard wood log with 23 hits in the front and 23 to 27 hits in the back. If you can do that in the 40 to 45 second range, you'll give Jason Wynyard and David Bolstad a run for the money.

...take two or three of your own old black hytests or pre 1980 keesteels (that are hopefully at least 6 and ½" wide and 7 and 1/4" long) and put the following grinds on them. A 16 to 19 degree flat 1/4" to ½" bevel, with in initial lift behind of the bevel of approximately 2 to 3 "thou" (that's basicly enough to where you can note a obvious depression behind the bevel, both by sight and touch - which is contrary to most hollow grind that cut softwoods in North America). The hollow behind the initial bevel will gradually taper to 20 to 30 "thou" 1 and ½" from the edge then gradually taper back to bevel hight at 3" from the edge. The reason for the big hollows is that the harder timbers require less axe touching the wood as to allow the axe penetrates the wood. The initial lift behind the bevel busts the chip out of the way and the big hollow allows the axe to travel further into the wood. When you put a straight edge on the axe, it looks like a big concave hollow that is uniform throughout the axe, particulary at the 1 and ½" from the edge
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This is good stuff, start to finish. I only shortened the quote out of courtesy to the readers. Go back and read the whole thing a couple times.

Also, this explains why Aussie axes are always short on both the heel and toe. Bucking hardwood does that. During a refurb you may want to grind away some of the middle of the bit just to get it back into shape.
 
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My beautiful hytest tas pattern the stuff that looks like pitting is just spots of rust great chopper in hard woods.
 
Great thread. Thanks for starting it nickzdon.

Yeah, there is a huge range of hardness in Aussie woods. From memory one of the densest is the Waddi tree, an acacia, that's about 1200 kgs per cubic metre. That's a desert acacia that like its mates grows slow and grows fine. I've turned a number of those species and the gouges need a regular lick on the grinder while you go.

I got interested in axes a couple of months ago and dragged out my old Aussie-made Kelly Dandenong 4 1/2 pounder. I take that to have been shaped as a general purpose axe - with bit geometry to try and cover minor splitting was well as felling. The shape was way different from Cook's recommendations so I got to work slimming it down. Now I know next to nothing about this stuff but have kept the bevel angle around 20 degrees half an inch back from the edge given a concern about turning the edge, and I put a 30 degree micro-bevel on it.

I'm not sure that axe racing is a very good guide to a useful average bit shape and use. Those axes, and their users, are thoroughbreds honed for one thing.

My current thing is rehabbing double bit axes. They're getting a modified Scandi grind - flat bevel 20 degrees included angle but with a micro-bevel. Works pretty well on dry Silky Oak which is fairly tough stuff. Getting a cm (3/8") penetration with a 3 lb head. Tough is of course different from hard. Have played on that timber with a Hultafors Agdor felling axe (c. 4 lb) with a more convex bit and got similar depth.

Yeah, our home-grown splitters have a relatively high included angle. The Cyclone you buy eg. is a wedge on a handle. The Fiskars is slimmer. Gransfors Bruks by comparison looks like an axe.

Pics: green Eucalypt, a narrow-leaved peppermint, pretty soft stuff, and the Kelly. Then the Kelly on the linisher after some more slimming down.



[url=https://flic.kr/p/DpxkSd]https://flic.kr/p/DpxkSd
 
Ziggy99 said:
Great thread. Thanks for starting it nickzdon.

Yeah, there is a huge range of hardness in Aussie woods. From memory one of the densest is the Waddi tree, an acacia, that's about 1200 kgs per cubic metre. That's a desert acacia that like its mates grows slow and grows fine. I've turned a number of those species and the gouges need a regular lick on the grinder while you go.

I got interested in axes a couple of months ago and dragged out my old Aussie-made Kelly Dandenong 4 1/2 pounder. I take that to have been shaped as a general purpose axe - with bit geometry to try and cover minor splitting was well as felling. The shape was way different from Cook's recommendations so I got to work slimming it down. Now I know next to nothing about this stuff but have kept the bevel angle around 20 degrees half an inch back from the edge given a concern about turning the edge, and I put a 30 degree micro-bevel on it.

I'm not sure that axe racing is a very good guide to a useful average bit shape and use. Those axes, and their users, are thoroughbreds honed for one thing.

My current thing is rehabbing double bit axes. They're getting a modified Scandi grind - flat bevel 20 degrees included angle but with a micro-bevel. Works pretty well on dry Silky Oak which is fairly tough stuff. Getting a cm (3/8") penetration with a 3 lb head. Tough is of course different from hard. Have played on that timber with a Hultafors Agdor felling axe (c. 4 lb) with a more convex bit and got similar depth.

Yeah, our home-grown splitters have a relatively high included angle. The Cyclone you buy eg. is a wedge on a handle. The Fiskars is slimmer. Gransfors Bruks by comparison looks like an axe.

Pics: green Eucalypt, a narrow-leaved peppermint, pretty soft stuff, and the Kelly. Then the Kelly on the linisher after some more slimming down.



[url=https://flic.kr/p/DpxkSd]https://flic.kr/p/DpxkSd
Click to expand...


I've been looking a acquiring an hultfors agdor felling axe what you think about it Or should I just find a plumb an fix I up.
 
I have a 4-1/2 pound Hytest in transit on a slow boat. Should be here in a couple more weeks.
 
tylermack said:
I've been looking a acquiring an hultfors agdor felling axe what you think about it Or should I just find a plumb an fix I up.
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Don't yet have much experience with it. Had to split some straight grained gum with it and it did surprisingly well. Steel is a bit porous and sap sticks to it. Bit finish is rough - needs sharpening and grind marks polishing out. Balance is pretty good. Handle is good. I like the weight. I prefer more strikes to a 4.5 lb or heavier axe.
 
tylermack said:
Thanks for the information
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No worries. If the OPer wants I'll put up pics so as to provide an idea of the geometry of the bit. Apart from that, you can't argue with the price: about $116 on ebay.com.au shipped from the UK.
 
tylermack said:
I've been looking a acquiring an hultfors agdor felling axe what you think about it Or should I just find a plumb an fix I up.
Click to expand...

I have a 2 1/4 agdor, no center line cheeks, just flat faced. The advantages of American designs can't be stated enough. I would go for a plumb if i were you, the cheeks help with less sticking, and aid in popping chips.
 
Hey this seems the place to ask, I have a standard size fiskars ax, with the stock grind, and live in SE queensland. Given the sort of trees around, as I sharpen it, should I thin, or thicken the grind angle? The ax lives in the back of my almost 4x (suzuki GV) so its mostly for splitting firewood at campsites, but could be tasked with taking apart a branch or two on a road some day.
 
What's the included angle of the bevels?

Prob way too high and a lot of steel would have to come off.
 
Thanks guys and I think I'll just find a nice tas pattern plumb and put a spottedgum handle on it I'd be pretty happy with that.[emoji846][emoji846][emoji846][emoji846]
 
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