Axis Lock & other disengagement mechanisms on THE HANDLE?!

A

anonymous

Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Messages
181
maybe i'm being too neurotic but...

is there any chance of disengagement/unlocking since the lever/button is on the friggin handle?? i'm talking about in a combat or survival situation, not when you're peeling an orange.

let's talk theoretics, even if u think a combat or survival situation is far-fetched to you.

i don't own an axis lock, but isn't it sort of tenuous to have the unlocking mechanism on the scales?

i can almost imagine retracting from a thrust, and somehow unlocking the blade.....

again, i don't own one, but i see potential issues with really hard use, but i could be wrong.. feedback appreciated.
 
Anything that can be unlocked, can be unlocked accidentally.

That said, I find the particulars of the Axis a bit less prone to accidental to unlocking, compared to some of the lock-backs and liner-locks I own. This is because, on my TSEK for example, no part of my hand touches the lock release.

The only other case I can think of is a folder that requires two separate steps to unlock. I have an old Rigid liner-lock, that has a secondary sliding button that prevents the liner from moving towards the opening position. The downside is that two separate movements are required to engnage and disengage both locks. I think some of the Extrema-Ratio folders also have a secondary lock for the lock.

An instructor once taught me, "If you can, bring a gun to a knife fight. Otherwise, bring a fixed blade."
 
I own a Benchmade 940 AXIS lock. I would imagine that if you stuck/stabbed your AXIS lock knife into something ..... then started to pull it out, but had your fingers on the lock mechanism, pulled it back and at the same time either lifted the handle up or pushed it down ..... you could have it fold up on you.

I mean, anything is posssible and the more moving parts to anything and you risk some kind of failure. But the above mentioned scenario is one where I could see a failure occuring if your hand or fingers were pulling back on the locking mechanism and moving the handle around at the same time.

Mike
 
also while pulling back, the hand would have to be slipping backward while the knife stayed stationary to disengage the lock. with i good grip on the knife, i can't see this happening.
 
A good lockback, with the lock at the butt of the knife, should be pretty secure. A framelock, of course, is more secure being gripped than just lying around. The new Spyderco ball lock is very similar to an axis lock, but the ball doesn't protrude past the handle scales, so it's less likely to be tripped accidentally.

Axis locks are too easily released, no stiffness at all, to be as secure as their admirers would like to think. Once the adrenalin kicks in, and sweat or blood slicks the handle, anything can go wrong.
 
While anything can go wrong at any time. I have used REKAT rolling lock and Benchmade AXIS locks for a while. I've got an original Pioneer and a Pioneer II as well as 3 axis lock knives. I've never had a problem. I have never felt like I was going to have a problem. Over the past year I have given several axis locks to knife users as well as not so knife users. I've been giving axis lock because it is a very secure system.

Mike
 
Originally posted by anonymous
maybe i'm being too neurotic but...

is there any chance of disengagement/unlocking since the lever/button is on the friggin handle??
Click to expand...
I think you have a good point, but it's kinda hard to find a folder with the lever or button on the blade. You're kinda stuck having to deal with the ones on the handle my friend.;)
 
Of course, CRKT has two Bladelock folders :) and technically you could say that liner locks and framelocks have the lock in the handle, not on the handle.

The problem with locks like the axis, arc, rolling, and bolt action is that the hand moving over the handle can touch them, and under stress may disengage them. For ordinary use, this is meaningless, unless you get [i[]very[/i] exciting cutting up apples ... :p
 
Esav - who asked you to come in here and wipe out my smart-aleck answer with facts? The nerve.
 
Originally posted by TorzJohnson
Esav - who asked you to come in here and wipe out my smart-aleck answer with facts? The nerve.
Click to expand...
^^LMFAO!!

esav - 'zactly how i feel about the matter.

the problem is, most liner locks & framelocks aren't lefty-friendly. that's why i even considered the axis-lock. i think the AFCK 806D2 is a great-looking & rugged EDC which is lefty friendly -- but its mechanism gives me the willies. the last thing i need is to guillotine my fingers while having defending myself against predatory fruits ;)

as we speak, brad duncan is making me a fully left-handed aftershock in S30V with blasted green canvas micarta scales (yeah boyee!!).

i just know that i need a decent (lefty) 3.5-4" EDC to complement it, since i'll probably avoid actually using the durn thing. i know, what a shame! the search continues.
 
Aux:

Thats correct, Extrema Ratio has certain models that have a dual locking system.

My MPC is a backlock, 1/4 steel locking bar to 1/4 inch mating surface.

It also has a crossbolt lock similar to a shotgun or lever action rifle that is passive.

The blade can be locked closed and open with the crossbolt, physically preventing it from opening accidently or closing if the lockbar ever failed [ though that looks to be almost impossible even under heavy usage with this knife].

I believe I read where Mike Janich looked at the axis lock and proclaimed it dangerous due to possible disengagement based on it's position in relation to the hand while being used.

I concur with that observation as well after handling one of my firends afck's.

I no longer carry linerlocks for various reasons relative the potential for the lock to be released under hard use or due to the mating surfaces not being correctly cut and the potential for the lock wearing and constantly changing it's bearing surfaces, but do carry the Strider SnG framelock and the MPC with complete confidence that these will not suffer the same fate [ though the Strider has the potential, the MPC does not suffer from these anomolies ].

Stay sharp

Brownie
 
Originally posted by anonymous
brad duncan is making me a fully left-handed aftershock in S30V with blasted green canvas micarta scales (yeah boyee!!).

... i'll probably avoid actually using the durn thing.
Click to expand...
Use it!!!

The whole idea of getting a custom or other high-end knife is either

1) to make a lot of money later by selling it (Don't count on it!) or,
2) having a knife that looks and works better for you than anything else on the market.

I usually carry a Sebenza. Today I'm carrying an Apogee. I know I'm lucky I can afford them. But if you've got a Duncan coming, you can afford it too, once you've got it. It's only a waste of money if it collects dust instead of scratches. :D
 
Originally posted by anonymous
maybe i'm being too neurotic but...
Click to expand...

YES! You are! :) I have several Axis Lock BM's and the idea of accidentally unlocking them is ridiculous in my opinion. The way I hold the knives, my hand and fingers aren't touching the lock, and even if they were and I was squeezing against the lock it isn't going anywhere easily. I'd be more afraid of a lock back failing as your palm is pressing against it when you hold it. Also with liner locks your fingers are pressing against that and if you twist the wrong way you might disengage it. I think the AXIS lock is about as secure as you can get without a fixed blade. Has anyone here ever accidentally disengaged the axis lock while using it??? I never have.

Also all this heat of the moment talk.. The chances of ever having to pull a knife and use it on an attacker are very rare, and the chances of the lock failing at the same time in combination with that makes the odds not worth thinking about.
 
I'd suggest you go with the odds then and ignore Murphy whose sitting on your shoulder as I write this.

Forethought, it goes a long way. Because it hasn't happened does not mean it won't or isn't possible.

The backlock on the MPC Extrema Ratio I have on me right now has a crossbolt safety like a shotgun. The lockbar is physically blocked from disengaging under duress.

Considered one of the best men with a knife, Mike Janich, saw the axis lock as a potential problem immediately. Besides the fact I also happen to agree with that theory, I'd tend to listen when men of his caliber make such statements. He is prone to have an educated opinion and good insights, being one of the top instructors one can train under.

Brownie
 
I noticed when there is pressure on the blade of an Axis Lock the lock is much more difficult to disengage. As pressure is put on the blade as if to make it close it pushes harder against the lock, making it take more and more force to slide the axis lock. I would think under high pressure the lock would be nearly impossible to disengage by the human hand. I can put the same amount of pressure on my Sebenza and still easily slide over the integral lock. The same goes for some of the liner locks I'm trying AFCK, Spyderco Staremate. I can put pressure on my lock back Gerber and still disengage the lock while putting pressure on the blade to close it. However on my Axis locks if I put the same pressure (doesn't take much) to try and close it becomes harder and harder to disengage as more pressure is applied.
 
wade - that's no use bruh.. trust me, i think of many trivial things with much lesser odds, like retiring filthy rich before 35, or having a harem of beauty pageant winners that my wife hand-picked.

esav - jeez man.. i still baby my gerber spectre to a silly degree :D. fine, i'll consider using the duncan, but i'll have to read your post over & over to convince myself!
 
Originally posted by Esav Benyamin
Axis locks are too easily released, no stiffness at all, to be as secure as their admirers would like to think. Once the adrenalin kicks in, and sweat or blood slicks the handle, anything can go wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't think the Axis lock is easier to unlock than anything else. You say you carry a Sebenza, I find the lock on my Sebenza is easier to disengage under use than the Axis. On the Sebenza your fingers are wrapped around the integral lock, so if you twist the wrong way you could twist open the lock. I can twist the same way with any of my Axis locks and not have that problem. Just hold your Sebbie in your right hand, hold the blade with your left hand, and twist the handle in the direction that would disengage the lock. So I wouldn't go knocking the Axis lock so freely when it's probably less apt to disengage than a lot of other locking mechanisms.
 
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