Axis Lock & other disengagement mechanisms on THE HANDLE?!

I've accidentally disengaged an axis lock. It was the very first time I ever handled one. I didn't get cut, but I don't trust myself with one now. I don't recall what I was doing with it, but I can tell you that it happened. I just remember thinking, "That's not good." I'm sure the lock is very solid, I just don't trust that my fingers will avoid accidentally brushing the lock, if I remember right it doesn't take a lot of pressure to move the release switch. A lot of people speak very highly of this locking system so I assume the error was mine, but I'm still going to stick with a lock back.
 
No lock is fail-proof and there must be a balance of ergonomics and safety. Here is my synopsis of the two, comparing the locks mechanically as well as ergonomically.



Liner lock:

Can snap loose from a jarring motion on the blade's spine.

Might not fail today, but can and presumably will eventually fail with wear. When will it wear out? ...You won't know until it fails.

Can be disengaged by twisting the hand or pulling the knife to the side. Any linerlock I have held, including my beloved AFCK, could be disengaged with these motions.
And when are you most likely to apply that pressure? During a stabbing motion, when the index finger has most pressure on the lock release.

Your finger rides on the liner-lock release constantly! And this is supposed to be better than an Axis which you "might" brush up against?



Axis:

Never known to fail mechanically. Anything can happen, but so far proven much more mechanically sound than the liner lock.

"Could" be brushed up against......if you were doing a pulling motion on the lock at the same time you are pushing forward on the knife???????

If you file down the release knob, an accident becomes nearly impossible. In my endless tinkering I went ahead and filed down the release knob on my Axis, so the whole question becomes moot.

Actually gets tougher to release the lock when there is pressure on the blade.

When closed, the Axis lock retracts and keeps the blade in the handle better than a liner lock ball-detent (let's face it, you are more likely to be stabbed in your gut from your blade popping open in your waistband, than the slim chance of the lock failing while stabbing someone). I have had more than a few liner-locks pop open in my pocket/waistband.





So, if anyone cares for another opinion, that is why I carry an Axis lock knife. They both can theoretically be released but the Axis is more mechanically sound. The Axis is not perfect, but it is the best thing on the market right now.
 
Originally posted by wlifter123
I've accidentally disengaged an axis lock. It was the very first time I ever handled one. I didn't get cut, but I don't trust myself with one now. I don't recall what I was doing with it, but I can tell you that it happened. I just remember thinking, "That's not good." I'm sure the lock is very solid, I just don't trust that my fingers will avoid accidentally brushing the lock, if I remember right it doesn't take a lot of pressure to move the release switch. A lot of people speak very highly of this locking system so I assume the error was mine, but I'm still going to stick with a lock back.
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Well if you were fiddling with it and not understanding what you were doing you probably pulled back on the lock not realizing that UNLOCKS it. It's like saying "I picked up a gun for the first time and it went off on me! I thought, "That's not good." so I'm not going to trust guns anymore, even though I probably made a mistake and pulled the trigger at the wrong time!"

These are the kind of non-sense stories that give Axis locks a bad name.
 
The very reason that frame locks are made, there stronger, and the tighter you hold them the stronger they become. pick up a cuda dominator there quite handy and a reasonable price. Fun to just play with drives the wife crazy lol.
 
No argument that framelocks are more reliable than liner locks, due to the hand reinforcement. But several people have brought up the fact -- and I agree -- that framelocks can be susceptible to counterclockwise torque. Try this: immobilize the blade somehow, now torque the knife counterclockwise. Now make believe the knife is covered with something slippery, like sweat or blood or mud. So as you're torquing, let your fingers slip just a little bit. What happens to the lock?
 
I find my Sebenza is easier to accidentally disengage, while counter clock wise twisting, than my Camillus Dominator, and it's easy to see why. On the Sebenza the lock bar is higher than the non-locking side of the handle. So when you twist the lock is taking all the pressure, in the wrong direction! On the Dominator the locking bar is lower than the opposite handle so the handle takes all the pressure and it's rather hard to disengage the lock when twisting counter clock wise. It can be done, but it takes more work, gotta get your knuckle to rub against the lock. I have a feeling when the designed the Dominator they took this into account. However the Sebenza's design doesn't seem to address this issue at all.
 
I'm not an expert in these matters but offer this information for others who may know better than I do to comment on. Be my guest to debunk or confirm its validity, or at a minimum, its probability.

While reading about the GG&C TID device for flashlights on their website, I learned that the toothed device was related to the thinking behind the Alternative Force Block (AFB) that was developed to prevent an opponent from driving the slide of a pistol rearward (and, thus, deactivating the weapon) in close quarters battle (CQB) environments.

The question that I pose here is as follows: Can a person knowledgeable about the workings of an Axis lock and skillful enough in CQB maneuvers parry and grasp a weilded axis lock knife from the top--say, his palm on the spine of the knife--push back (forward for him) on either Axis buttons with his thumb and/or index finger (to disengage the lock) and, subsequently, exert downward pressure with his palm to close the blade of the knife on the weilder's fingers?

I know how loyal and confident many here feel about the Axis lock--heck, I have a number of Axis lock BMs including the 942 that is in my pocket right now--but I'd like to hear from the experts if this possibility should be a concern to those who rely on the Axis locks.

Please, no flames--just intelligent discussion.
 
In such a dynamic environ as someone pulling a knife on me, I'm going to have enough to deal with immediately.

I don't believe one will have enough time to determine what type of lock it is and then have the skills to unlock it during a disarm,parry,block.

Chances of this happening on purpose are slim and none, in my opinion.

Brownie
 
it would probably happen as often as removing the slide from a gun-wielder's pistol via the dissassembly lever. theoretically possible enough to be seen in jackie chan movies but realistically unlikely. but anything is possible. i suppose of a skilled hand-to-hand MArtist trapped the hand and had the attacker pinned (using an arm bar or whatever), he could do this out of spite. but otherwise, an attacker is not going to leave his knife hand in one place long enough.
 
Took the response right out of my mouth Topgunpilot. :)

Seriously, who the heck is going to be in a situation where they are in a knife fight where their opponent is going to be skillful enough to Jackie Chan your Axis lock?!!? Do you people even watch Jackie Chan out takes? He f's up 10 times before he gets a stunt right. So even if someone knew how to do that and tried it they'd probably F up and be dead.

Sometimes I can't believe the things some of you come up with. :rolleyes: ;) :D It keeps things entertaining at least! :)
 
I haven't read all the prior posts, but if there's worry about locks, there are a nice array of small, concealable fixed blades out there that are a joy to own and use.
 
Originally posted by WadeF
Seriously, who the heck is going to be in a situation where they are in a knife fight where their opponent is going to be skillful enough to Jackie Chan your Axis lock?!!? Do you people even watch Jackie Chan out takes? He f's up 10 times before he gets a stunt right.
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my body is used on all the jackie chan movie posters since "the tuxedo".

actually, my body's been used for jackie chan posters since "the accidental spy" - that was a china release.

i might get an axis lock one day, but i'm not convinced 100% yet. liners just seem so much more secure, especially the heavy duty ones. don't mean to piss off the axis fans, i still am eyeballing that d2 afck.
 
Originally posted by anonymous
i might get an axis lock one day, but i'm not convinced 100% yet. liners just seem so much more secure, especially the heavy duty ones. don't mean to piss off the axis fans, i still am eyeballing that d2 afck.
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I'm going to say this. If you stabbed something with an Axis lock, lost your grip, and grabbed the knife and pulled you might grab the lock and disengage it.

However you just need to put your priorities in order.

For me the speed of opening and closing with the Axis Lock out weighs the chance of me disenganging the lock. Also the strength of the Axis lock over a liner lock outweighs the chance of disengagment.

For you it sounds like you'd rather have a slower knife to open and close (mainly closing) with a weaker lock and less chance of disengagment.

The question still remains, is the Axis lock easier to disengage, or more commonly disengaged, than the liner lock? Or a frame lock?

I tend to go with what I know as fact and leave theories out of my decision making.

Based on that I grab my BM710HSSR Axis lock to be my EDC 99% of the time because I know *I* can open it and close it faster than any other knife I own and I know it's stronger than most of my other folders.

I'd rather take a chance on disengaging the lock than not getting the blade deployed in time, but that's just me. ;)
 
Originally posted by WadeF
I'd rather take a chance on disengaging the lock than not getting the blade deployed in time, but that's just me. ;)
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wade,

i have a duncan aftershock flipper coming in the mail jan 1st. it's gonna be my 1st custom folder. check this link out & check out the video footage of the aftershock model.

http://duncanknives.com/CLIPS.html

the thing deploys like lightning, it's got a bearing-assisted opener. i'm gonna be out 450 bucks, but brad promises it's built like a tank, & he'll keep it up maintenance & sharpening-wise for his customers for free as long as he's alive.
 
That's a sweet knife for sure! What type of lock? I know I can close my Axis faster than he can close that thing, but that's not a big deal really. :)

As far as opening it's fast once you're holding it and have your finger in the right spot. I'd like to see him draw it from his pocket and open it. With the Axis lock my finger is ready to disengage the lock before it's all the way out of my pocket and it's open as soon as my hand is raised. My Dominator is set up very similiar to the Aftershock and I can't deploy it as fast. You have to pull the knife out and re-position it to press the flipper. I don't have to reposition or fumble around with my BM710 to deploy the blade.

Still that's an awesome knife! :)
 
One of the things I did just for the heck of it was to file down the lock release on my Axis TSEK so the whole argument becomes moot. Like I stated previously, I always redesign the knives I carry. It only took a couple minutes to filedown the knob and now it seems that any remote possibility there WAS of accidentally disengaging the lock is now gone.
The filed-down release seems just as easy to grip now when I want to close it, but it is now impossible to catch the release on anything.
I think the whole issue is a silly concern anyway when it is thought through, but now it is completely nonexistent.


Also, on all my hard-use folders, I grind off the first bit of the blade's edge near the choil so that if the blade ever did close on my fingers I will get no more than a bruise on the back of my index finger.
I cannot post attachments or else I was going to post a pic of my AFCK M2, which was my EDC before the Axis AFCK. Basically, the part of the blade that would contact my index finger if the blade were closed on my hand is ground flat and rounded off. I have never "missed" having that bit of the blade. That part of the blade also doubles as a "choil" for me to "grip up" on the blade for detailed work.

So, not only is the Axis lock bullet-proof out of the box, but I also added more safety by filing down the release, and then even added more redundant safety by filing down the edge that would cut me if it closed on my finger.
I feel extremely confident in this knife.
 
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