Axis Lock

craytab said:
It is work for sure. That is the thing, when it expires is not a fact. A good law firm could likely extend this thing in court forever. Makes my head hurt.

Thanks!
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Well, they wouldn't be able to extend indefinitely, but could have had prosecutorial delays or filed continuations in part or something like that to get some extension. They could also potentially have filed additional patents covering aspects of the mechanism (if there is enough complexity) with different terms. They might, or might not, have put other protective mechanisms in place as well. I will see what i can see.
 
Manek said:
qRaTD1G.jpg
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Nice! I'll take a 15 and mini 15 with the axis. :p

That would indeed be a dream! :)
 
Wilsonhome said:
Well, they wouldn't be able to extend indefinitely, but could have had prosecutorial delays or filed continuations in part or something like that to get some extension. They could also potentially have filed additional patents covering aspects of the mechanism (if there is enough complexity) with different terms. They might, or might not, have put other protective mechanisms in place as well. I will see what i can see.
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Benchmade does list a bunch of Patents related to the axis lock. This stuff is super complicated. The old google patent is not official at all. Going to the USPTO is like reading how to take apart a VCR backwards. Seems like most of this stuff would need to be figured out in court with expensive lawyers. Makes sense that criminal companies immune to law would counterfeit this lock.
 
craytab said:
Benchmade does list a bunch of Patents related to the axis lock. This stuff is super complicated. The old google patent is not official at all. Going to the USPTO is like reading how to take apart a VCR backwards. Seems like most of this stuff would need to be figured out in court with expensive lawyers. Makes sense that criminal companies immune to law would counterfeit this lock.
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OK, the WO patent is the one with the earliest priority date. It expires this year.

The EP patents are European patents-- 20 years from date of priority of the US patent, but effective in Europe, not the US.

The USRE patent is a re-examined patent, i.e., someone challenged the patent and the USPTO upheld the issuance of the patent. Does not affect the expiration date of the original patent, just affirmation that the patent is valid.

So the patent dates from 1999 and expires in 2016, and the material covered by the original patent enters the public domain.
 
Wilsonhome said:
Nap - What about prosecution extensions? What about Hatch Waxman (specialized and not applicable here, i agree)? I am not trying to argue, just pointing out that you have made a slightly sweeping statement that might need a little qualification.
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Please don't quote me out of context. Immediately preceding that was "With very few exceptions (of which, to the best of all public knowledge, none apply in this case) …"

Hatch-Waxman is one of those, as you acknowledge.
 
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Nap said:
Please don't quote me out of context. Immediately preceding that was "With very few exceptions (of which, to the best of all public knowledge, none apply in this case) …"

Hatch-Waxman is one of those, as you acknowledge.
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You are correct, I read and quoted too quickly when taking a break at work. My apologies for that.
 
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AntDog said:
Why would you think that? If they stole the design while it's been patented, they'll definitely continue to use it once the patent expires.

Did you mean that they'll still use it, but since the patent expired it can't be seen as ganzo ripping off Benchmade?
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If the Axis lock becomes public domain, it will cease being a rip off of Benchmade. Of course, their designs will still be copies so they'll remain scumbags and thieves.
 
Hackenslash said:
If the Axis lock becomes public domain, it will cease being a rip off of Benchmade. Of course, their designs will still be copies so they'll remain scumbags and thieves.
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Over and over, the concensus on BF is that any design that wasn't "gifted to the community" is stolen if used without permission of the designer. So I'll assume non-licensed, non-collaboration Axis lock knives will continue to be "stolen" until the distant future.
 
Hands up, who wants to see more Benchmades with liner/frame locks? Adamas with a TI framelock on one side would be quite a beast.
 
craytab said:
No thanks. The reason Benchmade is benchmade for me is because of the axis lock.
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Unfortunately that's the reason I don't own any Benchmades. It's too bad as they have a lot of nice models, would be good if they had more lock options for their popular models like Spyderco did with the Sage series. There's always the 761, I guess, but I'm not a fan of the looks.
 
craytab said:
No thanks. The reason Benchmade is benchmade for me is because of the axis lock.
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Yeah, same with me. If anything, I'd like to see more companies try to put out more knives with locks other than frame locks.
 
flipe8 said:
Yeah, same with me. If anything, I'd like to see more companies try to put out more knives with locks other than frame locks.
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I would imagine that this has something to do with copyrights and trademarks rather than companies being unwilling to try new lock types. It's either having to invent a new lock mechanism from scratch, or having use one of the old designs that won't get you sued.
 
MaximIsayev said:
I would imagine that this has something to do with copyrights and trademarks rather than companies being unwilling to try new lock types. It's either having to invent a new lock mechanism from scratch, or having use one of the old designs that won't get you sued.
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Right, but what it really comes down to is ingenuity. It isn't easy or cheap to make a new lock. Especially if the name of your game is counterfeiting like Ganzo. Companies do it the right way though. Look at all the different locks Spyderco has. SOG came out with the arc lock which is like the axis lock in effect but very different in execution.
 
craytab said:
Right, but what it really comes down to is ingenuity. It isn't easy or cheap to make a new lock. Especially if the name of your game is counterfeiting like Ganzo. Companies do it the right way though. Look at all the different locks Spyderco has. SOG came out with the arc lock which is like the axis lock in effect but very different in execution.
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I also really like that companies like Spyderco and Cold Steel have taken tried & true locks like a back/mid lock and are striving to make it better.

Not everything has to be "new" but lots of things can be "better".
 
flipe8 said:
I also really like that companies like Spyderco and Cold Steel have taken tried & true locks like a back/mid lock and are striving to make it better.

Not everything has to be "new" but lots of things can be "better".
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It's hard to make something better when it's protected by overzealous lawyers and a copyright law that borders on the ridiculous. The tri-ad lock was based on a free design, that gave Cold Steel enough freedom to innovate on it and bring a superior product to the market without fearing copyright holders and lawsuits. It's not possible to innovate on an Axis lock without getting it licensed, that means that a lot of small knife makers will not bother with it and will instead opt for the free designs, that's why liner locks and frame locks are so popular.
 
I have not found many of these newer locks to be as easy to use as liner locks of back locks. I think button locks are the bomb, but pretty rare.
 
flipe8 said:
I also really like that companies like Spyderco and Cold Steel have taken tried & true locks like a back/mid lock and are striving to make it better.

Not everything has to be "new" but lots of things can be "better".
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Also true. Ingenuity is the name of the game, opposed to out right theft.

The PM2 has the compression lock. I like it slightly more than the Axis lock. The PM2 is possibly the most counterfeited knife of all time. These dirtbags are now taking the PM2 design and putting an axis lock on it. Counterfeiting is an ugly game. How people can defend or legitimize it is hard to comprehend.
 
RX-79G said:
I have not found many of these newer locks to be as easy to use as liner locks of back locks. I think button locks are the bomb, but pretty rare.
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You should try the APB from Benchmade. It is a button actuated axis lock. To be great it needs to be assisted. Best lock I have ever used. I'm going to be ordering a Pallas soon as well. Button lock glory.
 
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