AZ Knifemakers - Ever have stabilized scales move?

Burl Source

Burl Source

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Dec 7, 2008
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This is a question for knifemakers living in Arizona or similar climate.

I was called by a customer who had purchased stabilized scales from a reputable vendor. The scales he had purchased were box elder and appeared well stabilized. After a short time the scales began to warp.

He then purchased stabilized redwood scales from me and the same thing happened. The scales from me were stabilized by K&G, so I am confident the stabilizing was done correctly.

Since the same thing has happened with 2 different types of wood from 2 different vendors, maybe something out of the ordinary is happening.
Makers in AZ, do you do anything special to prevent this sort of thing? Do you let the wood settle a while to your climate even though stabilized? Soak the scales in tequila? I am at a loss with this one.

Any ideas? Any input is appreciated especially from those of you in really dry areas.
Thanks, Mark
 
Im the costomer in reference to the above post. First off the burl source is a fantastic place to do business. But in regards to the problem at hand. I have been trying to do scales for a spyderco bushcraft blank. This is not my first knife but am at a complete loss. This set of scales came in. I noticed that there was a very small amount of warpage to them and hand sanded on 220 paper on a granite slab. It was taking awhile to get some of the roughness out of it so off to the 2x42 sander using a very flat platen. Couple quick passes of no more than 3 seconds at a time and these things were flat and just how i needed them. Zero light coming through the scales. I put them down on the counter and went to deal with other things for about two hours. I came back and the things were warped bigtime. Im talking if i clamp at one end it is in between 1/16 "-1/8" gap. I did nothing different than what i would do with standard wood and have used cocobolo on two previous knives with nothing like this. The first set of scales to go onto this knife were stabilized box elder for arizona desert ironwood and they did the same thing. Tese scales came for about 50 miles away so very much the same climate... Please help with any info guys.
 
Scots, is your shop in the house (basement, climate controlled garage, etc.)? Just wondering if there is some difference in the temp or humidity of where they are being worked and outside.

Doesn't Tai Goo live out there? He is probably a lot smarter than me with regard to these things, maybe he could comment?
 
Stabilized scales are like "stainless steel". They are far more resistant to 'movement' that 'unstabilized' wood. Having said that, I can etch my logog on 'stainless steel'. It will also rust if I leave it in the truck toolbox till next year's hunt.

Proper acrylic stabilizing (as done by WSSI and K&G and others) will greatly enhance the resistance of wood and other materials to unwanted movement. Nothing is 'bombproof'.

Rob!
 
I live in the wet climate of Washington and my shop is moist , I will admit . I recently sent 2 knifes to N.Y. state with stabilized wood from 2 different vendors ( sorry , but one was from you Mark , but not bought from you ) both shrunk and crack with in a 2 week period . I have read here on the forum that there has seemed to be a strange problem this year with all this weird weather everywhere .
 
I used the sander in my garage but only took about 5 minutes time and the temp difference was only 10 degrees or so due to the time of year here.
 
I am newer to knife making but I do a lot of woodworking and carving in Northern Colorado (High desert area). I don't notice a lot of warp in the woods that I use, spruce and maple, but I do notice a little. I let my violin wood sit a while in a non sunny dry spot for a couple of months and usually have it sandwiched between some other wood to make sure there isn't to much bending and warpage before I start with it.

You do have to be careful where you put it and make sure it not out in the heat and the sun. Being too dry also creates some problems but not along the lines of warping wood, more along the lines of making it brittle and hard to work with at times. Having said that, the wood I use isn't stabilized, but any of the projects that do "seal" I haven't seen many problems. 1/8" pieces that I have used polyurethane on are sometimes hard to keep shape.

I did want to use some stabilized box elder on my next knife that I was going to make so I will keep my eye on this thread closely.
 
Stabilized wood will move! Best bet is to keep it awhile before you use it. At least a couple
months, longer may be better. Also if you are grinding one side flat, it may help to grind
the other side right after.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Also if you are grinding one side flat, it may help to grind
the other side right after.
Click to expand...

With ZERO experience with stabilized wood, and very very minimal experience with wood in general, i would say this makes plenty of sense.

Metal has stress that is relieved once material is removed, especially when heat is introduced during the removal...
 
Carl_First_Timer said:
With ZERO experience with stabilized wood, and very very minimal experience with wood in general, i would say this makes plenty of sense.

Metal has stress that is relieved once material is removed, especially when heat is introduced during the removal...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately i did sand the outter side as well just to clean them up a little to get a better idea about the grain pattern. :confused:
 
I would leave it sitting for a bit like Don said, 2 or 3 weeks. The stabilization adds resins/acrylics that might need to cure for a time and working the wood in side that time period could lead to warpage.
 
Stabilized wood will move! Best bet is to keep it awhile before you use it.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. You mentioned Redwood...very poor candidate for stabilizing. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it does not.
 
If you leave it standing free it could warp for some odd reason, it shouldn't because it has been stabilized. I would sandwich the scales together and put it between to peaces of hardwood with something on top of it and just sit it somewhere or use a rubber band. No need to clamp it really.
 
The longer you keep it sitting the better chance you have of it not warping on you if the problem has to do with curing....
 
I've had one set of stabilized maple burl scales swell enough they needed to be re-sanded within a week or two. Both summer (really humid) and winter (really dry). The difference could be measured in a few 1/1000's but it's enough to feel with your finger. Once you notice that sort of thing it will drive you batty and I'm sure a customer would have been pretty upset about it.The scales were in my house for at least a year before working on them.

I think it just happens sometimes and that blows. But after all we're talking about highly figured highly unstable wood.

It would probably never matter on a safe queen but I make users. I'm considering not using stab'ed wood on full tangs because of this, in fact I haven't used it since. I have some nice stuff on hand but now I'm paranoid. I think on a narrow tang, especially a mortised one, there's a little more "wiggle room" so the problem wouldn't be so noticeable if it did happen. Your thoughts?
 
Im at the point now after hearing all this of just buying some burlap micarta since this knife will travel alot and be a user...:grumpy:
 
I hear you. I bet we could ask around and we would hear both positives and negatives alike.

Its really hard to say exactly what is going on with the wood.

When I worked in a research lab we had some samples of material that we had to keep in liquid nitrogen because the cell structure would grow at room temperature. Mind you, these were Nano-crystaline Palladium samples (a man made metal), not wood. And I don't know the exact processes they use to stabilize wood.

I would say that if you are really worried about it to pick a different type of wood, a hardwood that is non stabilized and use some bee's wax and some type of oil to create a maintainable finish.
 
scotsmanspride said:
Im at the point now after hearing all this of just buying some burlap micarta since this knife will travel alot and be a user...:grumpy:
Click to expand...

That is absolutely correct. It will look like crap, but perform very well.

Seriously, stabilization is a way to make something beautiful - but unuseable into something possible. Stabilized handles will not necessarily fail, nor will they necessarily be perfect. They will by far outperform the same product unstabilized.

Different products will stabilize differently. Thuya, Rosewoods and Olive may uptake little - but will still outperform raw product. It isn't perfect, but it is an improvement.

For a serious user, G10 is a great choice. For something to show off around the campfire, stabilized is a great option. It is absolutely the best way to show off looks! If it needs fixing - fix it!

Rob!
 
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